Freemasonry=Road paved with good intentions going to hell! :)

Each person is left to decide for themselves what their own interpretation of God is. If you have a broader conception of God as a force, or a Power for Good, or just a Concept, as long as you can answer positively to the question 'do you believe in God?' from your heart, no-one will challenge you further on the matter.

Of course lying is always an option, and I'm sure some people do, but its not a very auspicious beginning in an organisation that holds Truth up as a principle virtue. Plus, as I mentioned before, you won't get anything like the best from freemasonry without a Belief of some sort.

Although whatever you believe in must be 'Supreme' - there's no claiming you worship your wife, for example, no matter how much it might feel like she is

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I would say that I am on the pro-Great Spirit side of the line. I cannot say I 'know' the Creator exists, but I would say that I am at least at the 51% in favour level of belief. I have no other reason than 'faith' for this. It could be that all I have witnessed is possible without a 'God', but the signs seem to be pointing that way. Thanks.

Maybe this will help:

My personal religious views are very similar to those of Buddhism and Taoism. My actual position on divinity is relatively Spinozan and pantheistic.

have you ever heard the phrase "to be one ,ask one"??????

Greetings Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama

Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama

Originally posted by Tamahu

By the way; Gnosis IS the original Christianity.

The majority of modern sects are deviations from the original teachings of the beloved Aberamentho.

I think that Gnosis is AN original Christianity.

The majority of modern sects are deviations from the original teachings of the beloved Jesus Christ.

AN?

Gnosis(Hebrew = Daath) simply means direct experiental knowledge, without just relying on belief and blind-'faith'.

So the prophets of Christianity are said to be Gnostic because of the Divine Knowledge(Kabbalah and Alchemy/Tantra) received through meditation, devotion, study, transmutation(based on chastity) and experimentation. Just like the Kemetic Priests, Solar Rishis, Buddhas, Platonists, Magi, etc. who came before them.

All said religions(at least in their esoteric roots) worship The Christ, even if the "Christian" fanatics don't want to share 'Him'.

Examples:

The Shemsu-Neter worship Karast(Christ) as Ausar-RA and Neberdjer,

The Brahmans worship 'Him' as Brahma/Saraswati('Father'), Vishnu/Lakshimi('Son') and Shiva/Shakti('Holy Spirit'),

The Buddhists as Dharmakaya, Samboghakaya and Nirmanakaya,

The Bons as Kuntu Zangpo/Kuntu Zangmo,

The Platonists as The Logos,

The Mayans and Aztecs as Kukulcan/Quetzecoatl

The Hebrews as YodHehVauHeh which in synthesis, is the totality of Yod and Shekinah,

The Zoroastrians worship Christus-Lucifer(not Satan-Lucifer/Yahweh)-represented by the Eternal Flame on the Alter-as Ahura Mazda,

etc., etc., etc.


The only 'difference' being, that Gnostic Christians point out that the Monad known as Aberamentho(Yeshuah Hamashiah or "Jesus Christ") is currently the Highest-Solar Initiate(Paramarthasatya) of this Galaxy.

Christ


"The Gnostic Church adores the Saviour of the World, Jesus. The Gnostic Church knows that Jesus incarnated Christ, and that is why they adore him. Christ is not a human nor a divine individual. Christ is a title given to all fully self-realised Masters. Christ is the Army of the Voice. Christ is the Verb. The Verb is far beyond the body, the soul and the Spirit. Everyone who is able to incarnate the Verb receives in fact the title of Christ. Christ is the Verb itself. It is necessary for everyone of us to incarnate the Verb (Word). When the Verb becomes flesh in us we speak with the verb of light. In actuality, several Masters have incarnated the Christ. In secret India, the Christ Yogi Babaji has lived for millions of years; Babaji is immortal. The Great Master of Wisdom Kout Humi also incarnated the Christ. Sanat Kumara, the founder of the Great College of Initiates of the White Lodge, is another living Christ. In the past, many incarnated the Christ. In the present, some have incarnated the Christ. In the future many will incarnate the Christ. John the Baptist also incarnated the Christ. John the Baptist is a living Christ. The difference between Jesus and the other Masters that also incarnated the Christ has to do with Hierarchy. Jesus is the highest Solar Initiate of the Cosmos...." - The Perfect Matrimony

"Indeed, Christ is a Sephirothic Crown (Kether, Chokmah and Binah) of incommensurable wisdom, whose purest atoms shine within Chokmah, the world of the Ophani "Christ is not the Monad, Christ is not the Theosophical Septenary; Christ is not the Jivan-Atman. Christ is the Central Sun. Christ is the ray that unites us to the Absolute." - Tarot and Kabbalah.

Regards



[edit on 31-1-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by AngelWitch

Originally posted by TxSecret
No so fast lost.. My mind is NOT closed: I wouldn't be posting here if that was the case. Please do not assume that I'm trying to shove "my style' of Christianity down anyone's throat either. What I'm mainly interestested in is how you can say your a Christian and in the same breath call yourself a Freemason. What I want to discuss here is how some folks feel Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity. Just because I do not believe Christianity is compatible with Freemasonry does not mean we can not have a constructive debate over this. It's interesting when you said "style of Christianity". How many 'styles' of Christianity are there from your viewpoint?

Why don't you feel it's compatible? Because if you understand Freemasonry and are a faithful christian then you wouldn't be the question. I think you may be mistaken.

PS. I don't believe there are styles of Christianity, only preachers/priests that don't know the difference.

from what i see from the masons here, i dont think the masons know what freemasonary is about (or altnertivly they just wont tell us and make us go round in circles talking bout their rites, lesser rituals and ideals)

lets accept that they are here. then allow them to proceed with their beleifs, because we let christians continue with their belief, we let muslims belive in islam (well america recently seems to want an end to islam but hey america wants an end to everthing)

"religion thats made up to stop you all going mad" (cryton ,red dwarf)

im not a fan of religion or freemasonary, both have completely conditioned people, and control people, , using perceptions ,ideas, rituals and contrrolled infomation. among a few

its not surprising some freemasons are christian

Originally posted by Judgeofdarkness
from what i see from the masons here, i dont think the masons know what freemasonary is about (or altnertivly they just wont tell us and make us go round in circles talking bout their rites, lesser rituals and ideals)

lets accept that they are here. then allow them to proceed with their beleifs, because we let christians continue with their belief, we let muslims belive in islam (well america recently seems to want an end to islam but hey america wants an end to everthing)

Who is this message addressed to? It's very disconcerting and disrespectful to be spoken about as if you weren't here.

Im going to regret saying this but an organisation, founded on seceracy, in my opinion is disrespectful,epecesilly an organasation which could have members who are also in politics, legisaltion,banks,and media oh i forgot the justice system

whos to say who should have what information, and whos worthy etc

now that disrespectful, but that MY opinion

Originally posted by Judgeofdarkness
from what i see from the masons here, i dont think the masons know what freemasonary is about

Why wouldn't Freemasons know what Freemasonry is about? And if Masons don't know, then who would?

Im going to regret saying this but an organisation, founded on seceracy...

But Masonry is not an organization founded on secrecy. It's an organization founded on the principles of the Enlightenment, a 17th and 18th century philosophical movement. The element of secrecy is greatly overplayed by opponents of Freemasonry; in reality, the secrecy factor of Masonry is probably the least important.

Originally posted by Judgeofdarkness
from what i see from the masons here, i dont think the masons know what freemasonary is about

From what I see from the (insert group) here, I don't think the (insert same group) know what (insert group function) is about.

Talk about the lack of logic. I am just a simple country boy, but my daddy told me," son if you going to dig a hole and you never done it before, go look for someone with a shovel in their hand and ask them how its done.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by lost in the midwest]

Originally posted by lost in the midwest

Originally posted by Judgeofdarkness
from what i see from the masons here, i dont think the masons know what freemasonary is about

From what I see from the (insert group) here, I don't think the (insert same group) know what (insert group function) is about.

Talk about the lack of logic. I am just a simple country boy, but my daddy told me," son if you going to dig a hole and you never done it before, go look for someone with a shovel in their hand and ask them how its done.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by lost in the midwest]

im sorry but i dont seee my lack of logic its simple you the masons seem to be in my opinion , a cult, you do rituals for whatever reason but if you consider the effects of rituals you will see you are conditioning yourself, for what, the craft your self , your religion.

lack of logic= freemasonary, cuz its so insidious while being linked to religion

but again my opinion. im sorry that i have opinions even if they lack logic but looking at what freemasonary stands for and is, well to me thats lack of logic. again an opinion, any more i reckon ill get banned.

freemasonary more like cultmasonary, oppppss another opinion,

i dont like freemason simple as i find you funny, you know you see someone do a stupid thing and you laugh, well thats the same why i find freemasons funny, if you want to seek truth be a man do it on your own, if you want money be aman seek it on your own,

or you can join Sheepmasonary, rituals shown to you and rammed in your face, oaths that really dont mean anything in the @real@ world and eternal conditioned brain so your always a sheep ready to defend the herd

Hmmm.

You've got me so tightly boxed up in a stereotype I can't move.

So much for sensible discussions

FLAME WARNING 9IM NOT iN THE MOOD FOR SLY COMMENTS FROM THE LIKES OF YOU)

The likes of me??? The truth has come out. Your personal basis precludes you from having any real discussion. good bye hope you have a good life.

from what i see from the masons here, i dont think the masons know what freemasonary is about (or altnertivly they just wont tell us and make us go round in circles talking bout their rites, lesser rituals and ideals)

I suppose YOU know what it's all about? You believe that you have gleaned the truth
from all of your reading of conspiracy books and the like, along with
the suppositions and inferences you've made with few facts? The meaning of
the ritual work has been explained here several times, as well as the lessons they teach.
Heck, you can even find copies of the ritual if you know where to look.

lets accept that they are here. then allow them to proceed with their beleifs, because we let christians continue with their belief, we let muslims belive in islam (well america recently seems to want an end to islam but hey america wants an end to everthing)

"religion thats made up to stop you all going mad" (cryton ,red dwarf)

I have no idea what this section is supposed to mean, but it seems you may have a very negative
view of the alot of things. For the record, I don't want an end to Islam and I am an American.

im not a fan of religion or freemasonary, both have completely conditioned people, and control people, , using perceptions ,ideas, rituals and contrrolled infomation. among a few

its not surprising some freemasons are christian

WOW...so many assumptions and untruths, so little time to waste. How about if we focus for a second on Freemasonry.
I am a Mason, and haven't been coerced or contolled any in way by Masonry or Masons. Of course Im influenced by the
company I keep, as is anyone with close friends and associates, and aspire to be as good and moral a person as some of those
I associate myself with. That hardly equates to control, coersion or conditioned behavior.

As a Mason, one must only declare a belief in a Supreme Being, which opens the door to any religion. I recommend to you, from one person to another, to examine your belief that one set of dogmas leads to eternel life and another(or in the case of Christianity)any other , leads to an eternity of suffering. Have you ever looked at the facts, as "YOU" see them, and asked a few serious questions? Is your reality so frail, that all others must share it if it is to continue to exist? Grow up why dont you!

Originally posted by woodwhite
Before I joined Masonry I did a great deal of reading on the subject because I have heard so much about how "evil and bizarre" the Masons were.

In reading everything I knew that my beliefs did not conflict with my joining my local Masonic lodge. I understood my beliefs that the Jesus was my Savior and had accepted him as such. I also understand that Christianity teaches tolerance to all and something about being able to sit in a lodge full of people and not people segregated by their personal beliefs was refreshing and exciting.

There are not Jews, Muslims and Christians in my lodge, we are brothers, we are tolerant of each other and despite the conotations by people the secret agenda seems to be tolerance, faith and moral values.

Christianity taught me to love my neighbor, not my Christian neighbor and to hell with the non-Christian.

It is ironic that many of those that preach tolerance (like Pat Robertson) have none.

this:

www.fish4masons.org...

would be some good reading for you then. Don't you think that acting out a ressurection of Hiram Abiff is a slap in Jesus' face? As far as Pat is concerned, he's a perfect example of a goat in sheep's clothing.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Don't you think that acting out a ressurection of Hiram Abiff is a slap in Jesus' face?

If that was indeed what was going on then it could certainly be construed as disrespectful, even blasphemous.

But that's not what's going on in the 3rd degree. The argument that HAB is a 'masonic messiah' is based on the mistaken belief that the finding and raising of the body is actually a resurrection from death to life. Despite the fact that the ritual quite extensively discusses his re-internment and leaves very little room for misinterpration, amazingly some people do.

The symbolism of the degree teaches the Christian mason that all of us can only find eternal life through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and that is quite clear in the ritual.

Don't believe everything you read about freemasonry from anti-masonic sites. This argument, like many others, is based on misunderstanding (wilful or otherwise) of freemasonry and masonic ritual. The fact that freemasonry insists candidates have a belief of their own before they join, and that they must continue that belief throughout their masonic life, logically precludes the possibility of there being any masonic god, be he called Hiram Abiff or anything else.

Hey guys.. Interesting replies, I have some catching up to do. Just changed jobs and had some traveling come up at the last minute. Let me catch up and I'll post some responses.

Something I want to leave you with for right now is this:

(Modern KJV)

From Galations:

Ga 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a DIFFERENT gospel,

Ga 1:7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to PERVERT the gospel of Christ.

Ga 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be ACCURSED.


My humble point of view is that when you mix the Gospel of Christ up with 'other' beliefs you pervert it.



Aye.. it's good to be home..

But there are numerous examples of where the King James bible was translated in such a way as to serve political agendas at the time of its compilation. So what is the "true" Gospel of Christ?

Anyway, that was a bit of a naughty red herring. Sorry... Moving on...

Freemasonry isn't a religion, although religion and Freemasonry both use ritual. If a person confuses that to mean that they are therefore philosophically in competition with each other, then they should probably steer clear of Freemasonry anyway...

Hi TxSecret

Originally posted by TxSecret

My humble point of view is that when you mix the Gospel of Christ up with 'other' beliefs you pervert it.

I think this is very true and I agree 100%. Luckily as there is no 'preaching' going on in freemasony this wouldn't apply. You've obviously reached this conclusion for a reason though, and I'd be interested in your thought processes as to how you arrived there.

You might not be aware but freemasonry is a fraternity, not a religion; and that religion and religous topics are BANNED from discussion.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Don't you think that acting out a ressurection of Hiram Abiff is a slap in Jesus' face? As far as Pat is concerned, he's a perfect example of a goat in sheep's clothing.

Masons do not act out a resurrection of Hiram Abiff. In the Masonic story, the body of Hiram is exhumed from the makeshift grave that was dug by the assasins, for the purpose of "more decent Masonic internment". He is then buried "as near the Holy of Holies as the Jewish law would permit", and over his grave a monument is erected to "commemorate his life, his fidelity, and his untimely death".

The Degrees of the Scottish Rite, beginning at the 4°, take place after Hiram has been reinterred, as do the York Rite Degrees beginning at the grade of Mark Master. No resurrected Hiram ever makes an appearance.