Freemasonry=Road paved with good intentions going to hell! :)

Ok.. Now before the flame war starts up I just want to let you know I'm posting this thread in good spirit. I just got a laugh when the title popped into my head so hopefully it will get more positive attention than bad. As most of you probably know I am a Christian always striving for the truth and I have always felt that Christianity is not compatible with Freemasonry. I don't understand how a Christian can, at the same time, be a Freemason. Now.. This is the focus I want to make in this thread so all the non spiritual/"religious" types please at least try and stay 'close' to what I'm trying to do here.


I'm going to see how the initial response goes then I'll post more on my angle if it's welcome.




[edit on 27-1-2006 by TxSecret]

TxSecret

Good luck, I'd duck and cover.

Seriously, I don't see your position. In fact I personally know at least sever ministers who are masons. They range from Baptist to Episcopalian. They don't seem to have any problem with any form of conflict.

Originally posted by TxSecret
Ok.. Now before the flame war starts up I just want to let you know I'm posting this thread in good spirit. I just got a laugh when the title popped into my head so hopefully it will get more positive attention than bad. As most of you probably know I am a Christian always striving for the truth and I have always felt that Christianity is not compatible with Freemasonry. I don't understand how a Christian can, at the same time, be a Freemason. Now.. This is the focus I want to make in this thread so all the non spiritual/"religious" types please at least try and stay 'close' to what I'm trying to do here.


I'm going to see how the initial response goes then I'll post more on my angle if it's welcome.




[edit on 27-1-2006 by TxSecret]

Your mind is already closed, so why bother. You are not going to change your mind and the others aren't going to change theirs. So is this just a way express your style of christainity

No so fast lost.. My mind is NOT closed: I wouldn't be posting here if that was the case. Please do not assume that I'm trying to shove "my style' of Christianity down anyone's throat either. What I'm mainly interestested in is how you can say your a Christian and in the same breath call yourself a Freemason. What I want to discuss here is how some folks feel Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity. Just because I do not believe Christianity is compatible with Freemasonry does not mean we can not have a constructive debate over this. It's interesting when you said "style of Christianity". How many 'styles' of Christianity are there from your viewpoint?

Whether the institute of FreeMasonry has degenerated or not, is another topic; however, it's roots are likely to be found in that Ancient Pure Gnosis, a Golden Thread of Divinity that has run through many religions and traditions; even in these times of the Kali Yuga!


By the way; Gnosis IS the original Christianity.

The majority of modern sects are deviations from the original teachings of the beloved Aberamentho.

I'm kind of interested in why you "feel" that Masonry is not compatible with Christianity? What is your reasoning or feeling based on?

Doesn't it strike you as rather odd that so many "Christian" men in many countries and for hundreds of years have participated in Masonry?

Doesn't it strike you as odd that many of these men were highly educated and enlightened individuals who contributed greatly to this country and many other nations with obvious good results?

Why would these men openly and actively participate in a fraternity that might possibly compromise their integrity or put them at odds with society in general, and risk their stations in life?

What are your concerns or prejudices based in?

What specifically about Masonry makes you conclude that it is not a worthy pursuit?

It's seems to me to be a difficult proposition to remain open-minded if you have already decided about subject, but, at least you're asking.

If you are seeking truth it is best to start at the begining and look deeply at yourself and the foundation you build your reality on. Noone but you can determine your personal truth. Obviously you are somewhat of a sceptic about things and so perhaps you will have room for an honest personal apprasial of things.

Good Luck on your search.

Originally posted by TxSecret
No so fast lost.. My mind is NOT closed: I wouldn't be posting here if that was the case. Please do not assume that I'm trying to shove "my style' of Christianity down anyone's throat either. What I'm mainly interestested in is how you can say your a Christian and in the same breath call yourself a Freemason. What I want to discuss here is how some folks feel Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity. Just because I do not believe Christianity is compatible with Freemasonry does not mean we can not have a constructive debate over this. It's interesting when you said "style of Christianity". How many 'styles' of Christianity are there from your viewpoint?

Why don't you feel it's compatible? Because if you understand Freemasonry and are a faithful christian then you wouldn't be the question. I think you may be mistaken.

PS. I don't believe there are styles of Christianity, only preachers/priests that don't know the difference.

TxSecret

Personally I'd be delighted to discuss this with you. I think is is an area (mostly in the US, to be fair) where there is great confusion and it needs a sensible discussion. As has already been asked, please outline how you believe FM is INcompatible with Christianity, as freemasonry has already given its own position:

External source - United Grand Lodge of England

Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It demands of its members a belief in a Supreme Being but provides no system of faith of its own.

Read the full statement here. Perhaps a good place to start is for you to point out areas of this statement that you are uncomfortable with.

Originally posted by TxSecret
I don't understand how a Christian can, at the same time, be a Freemason. Now.. This is the focus I want to make in this thread on

Freemasonry was started by christians, uses christian symbology and biblical references, and some rites-organizations within it are only open to trinitarian christians.

How is belonging to a club incompatible with accepting jesus as your personal saviour?

Originally posted by TxSecret
Ok.. Now before the flame war starts up I just want to let you know I'm posting this thread in good spirit. I just got a laugh when the title popped into my head so hopefully it will get more positive attention than bad. As most of you probably know I am a Christian always striving for the truth and I have always felt that Christianity is not compatible with Freemasonry. I don't understand how a Christian can, at the same time, be a Freemason. Now.. This is the focus I want to make in this thread so all the non spiritual/"religious" types please at least try and stay 'close' to what I'm trying to do here.


I'm going to see how the initial response goes then I'll post more on my angle if it's welcome.




[edit on 27-1-2006 by TxSecret]

Actually I think I understand what you are trying to "feel out". So, I'll tell you.

some backround: I was brought up prebyterian, I declared that Jesus Christ as my personal savior, further I attend my friends Baptist church. I've also been around masonry atleast half my life. Mind you, just like my faith, I joined the Craft after research and long deliberation. My father purposly never pushed religion or masonry. It was up to me to research, think, and decide.

That being said, the reason I'm getting back into church is because of my obligation to research my faith, with the same text I took my obligation on. the KJV bible I also have several bibles and I'm looking into getting good translations of the talmud, torah, and the koran (even though some muslims would say that unless the koran is in arabic it is not a true koran). Not only do I want to know more about my faith but also about the faith's of others.

Because masonry reenforces the good things that humans are suppose to be doing anyway, Because my obligations and masonic actions do not conflict with my christian views, I say that not only are they compatible but work hand in hand. Fellowship and toleration, faith and good moral lessons, these are the things that you should be doing without god, without masonry, and without laws. Even though you shouldn't need these, all three reenforce these good actions.
And while some only need one of the above, I liike them all.

Before I joined Masonry I did a great deal of reading on the subject because I have heard so much about how "evil and bizarre" the Masons were.

In reading everything I knew that my beliefs did not conflict with my joining my local Masonic lodge. I understood my beliefs that the Jesus was my Savior and had accepted him as such. I also understand that Christianity teaches tolerance to all and something about being able to sit in a lodge full of people and not people segregated by their personal beliefs was refreshing and exciting.

There are not Jews, Muslims and Christians in my lodge, we are brothers, we are tolerant of each other and despite the conotations by people the secret agenda seems to be tolerance, faith and moral values.

Christianity taught me to love my neighbor, not my Christian neighbor and to hell with the non-Christian.

It is ironic that many of those that preach tolerance (like Pat Robertson) have none.

how can a mason not be a christian, both historic and modern templars are the most chaitable and crist observing people

You have voted tyler_dryden for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

If creating an environment where a Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian can sit together at a table to discuss things as respectful equals, leads to hell, then I want to come.
The only thing I, being an outsider, do not yet fully understand is why it is mandatory for one to be a theist to join. Are not atheists considered to be just as deserving? That is what kept my dad out of the lodge. His side of the family are lodge members going way back.
Even the RCC has now made it okay to be a freemason.

i might have read that wrong but in fact one of the only rules of masonry is that you can not be an atheist because they are said to be ignorant

One of the cornerstones of freemasonry is the existence of God, and that all good things come from Him. The moral lessons imparted through the ritual are from the Old Testament, and there is an over-riding theme throught masonry regarding the relationship between God and man.

All of this would be meaningless babble and nonsense to an atheist. IMO without a belief in God freemasonry is an empty shell.

Originally posted by Tamahu

By the way; Gnosis IS the original Christianity.

The majority of modern sects are deviations from the original teachings of the beloved Aberamentho.

I think that Gnosis is AN original Christianity.

The majority of modern sects are deviations from the original teachings of the beloved Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Trinityman
One of the cornerstones of freemasonry is the existence of God, and that all good things come from Him. The moral lessons imparted through the ritual are from the Old Testament, and there is an over-riding theme throught masonry regarding the relationship between God and man.

All of this would be meaningless babble and nonsense to an atheist. IMO without a belief in God freemasonry is an empty shell.

Serious question for you. I am not saying I am interested in joining, just that, if I were, would my beliefs be acceptable.
I believe in the power of prayer, in miracles, in life after death, and in guardian angels. As to the existence of God, that is an incomprehensible, endless knot to me. God, if extant, would, imo, be beyond my ability to define, describe, or comprehend.
So, would I be given the Masonic stamp of approval?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Serious question for you. I am not saying I am interested in joining, just that, if I were, would my beliefs be acceptable.
I believe in the power of prayer, in miracles, in life after death, and in guardian angels. As to the existence of God, that is an incomprehensible, endless knot to me. God, if extant, would, imo, be beyond my ability to define, describe, or comprehend.
So, would I be given the Masonic stamp of approval?

You would not be asked what your particular beliefs about God are. Only if you believe in the existence of a Supreme Being. This would cover the Big Three (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), but would also cover Deism and Pantheism.

I would say that I am on the pro-Great Spirit side of the line. I cannot say I 'know' the Creator exists, but I would say that I am at least at the 51% in favour level of belief. I have no other reason than 'faith' for this. It could be that all I have witnessed is possible without a 'God', but the signs seem to be pointing that way. Thanks.