Australian Freemasons win lawsuit against 'whistleblowers' site

To vogelfire

Gees vogelfire, I mean if we had a time machine right now and were able to travel back to the past, we would be able to catch all the criminals of this world period. I dare say it would be a massive undertaking.
Yet we don't have such a device nor the ability to monitor every person living on this earth 24/7, so how do you know what goes on behind closed doors even with your own kids.
Seriously if such safety measure was put in place, it is at best inadequate nor does anybody have the right to encroach on the privacy of others, so truly each person to their own. So how do you know even your own husband not cheating on you behind your back? How would you really know there isn't one or maybe many amidst your immediate circle vogelfire?

Originally posted by newinitiation
I hope you and others like yourself can see past the veil and penetrate to the core and the essence of what Thelemism really represents to the wider world of things and to discover for yourself what it truly is and to realise the undercurrent of rotting corpses strewn across its desolate path laid bare.

OK I can see now that your not interested in having a discussion.. you just seem to want to "save" me from something you admit I know more about than you. Oh well I tried.

BTW Thelemism??

If anyone else would like to ask some questions about the points newinitiation brought up. Please feel free to ask away. Maybe there is still a chance of having a discussion in this thread.

[edit on 6/10/2006 by Cug]

Originally posted by newinitiation
To vogelfire

Gees vogelfire, I mean if we had a time machine right now and were able to travel back to the past, we would be able to catch all the criminals of this world period. I dare say it would be a massive undertaking.
Yet we don't have such a device nor the ability to monitor every person living on this earth 24/7, so how do you know what goes on behind closed doors even with your own kids.
Seriously if such safety measure was put in place, it is at best inadequate nor does anybody have the right to encroach on the privacy of others, so truly each person to their own. So how do you know even your own husband not cheating on you behind your back? How would you really know there isn't one or maybe many amidst your immediate circle vogelfire?

Newinitiation, I think you're moving way off topic here. We all concede that deviants exist in our society, but let's get back to your "claim" that paedophiles thrive in the O.T.O./Freemasonry (I'm not sure if you mean one or the other or both). They're attracted to the organization by Crowley's literary "filth" and are protected by the brotherhood, correct?

Hasn't it been established to your satisfaction that rituals involving child abuse do not take place in these organizations? Don't you think a paedophile would quickly get bored by not having his deviant appetite fed, leave, and turn to other sources to meet his needs?

I think you're missing the real world wide source for deviant activity, and that is the internet. There adult predators run rampant, safe behind screen names, able to talk "sex filth" all they want, and set up dates with young, unsuspecting children who are then molested. I'm not sure where you live, but in the U.S. a very successful sting operation has been set up and aired on television in the series "To Catch a Predator," and men of all walks of life have been caught and arrested, fired from their jobs, and humiliated on national television -- teachers, police officers, someone from Homeland Security, etc. etc. etc.

To vogelfire

Check these links out first.

www.hermetic.com/220/crowley-comments.html

The Beast 666 ordains by His authority that every man, and every woman, and every intermediately-sexed individual, shall be absolutely free to interpret and communicate Self by means of any sexual practices soever, whether direct or indirect, rational or symbolic, physiologically, legally, ethically, or religiously approved or no, provided only that all parties to any act are fully aware of all implications and responsibilities thereof, and heartily agree thereto.

Moreover, the Beast 666 adviseth that all children shall be accustomed from infancy to witness every type of sexual act, as also the process of birth, lest falsehood fog, and mystery stupefy, their minds, whose error else might thwart and misdirect the growth of their subconscious system of soul-symbolism.

"when, where, and with whom ye will!"

The phrase "with whom" has been practically covered by the comment on "as ye will". One need no more than distinguish that the earlier phrase permits all manner of acts, the latter all possible partners. There would have been no Furies for Oedipus, no disaster for Othello, Romeo, Pericles of Tyre, Laon and Cythna, if it were only agreed to let sleeping dogs lie, and mind one's own business. In real life, we have seen in our own times Oscar Wilde, Sir Charles Dilke, Parnell, Canon Aitken and countless others, many of them engaged in first-rate work for the world, all wasted because the mob must make believe to be "moral". This phrase abolishes the Eleventh Commandment, Not to be Found Out, by authorizing Incest, Adultery, and Paederasty, which every one now practices with humiliating precautions, which perpetuate the schoolboy's enjoyment of an escapade, and make shame, slyness, cowardice and hypocrisy the conditions of success in life.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.gaiaguys.net/oto.compassionisvice.htm

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Vogelfire, if you can put the two and two together you'll come up with the only answer applicable for this situation.

Originally posted by newinitiation
Vogelfire, if you can put the two and two together you'll come up with the only answer applicable for this situation.

And from what I can tell you think 2+2= 342,987.08231

The phrase "with whom" has been practically covered by the comment on "as ye will".

I'm curious, did you not want to be bothered to read the comment on "as ye will"? You can't be a lazy reader and expect to understand a thing Crowley means! Honestly.

www.hermetic.com...
From the section describing as ye will

Such acts as rape, and the assault or seduction of infants, may therefore be justly regarded as offences against the Law of Liberty, and repressed in the interests of that Law.

It is also excluded from "as ye will" to compromise the liberty of another person indirectly...

In other words sex that is not between consenting adults is wrong. (statutory rape is still rape after all)

The simple fact is that when everybody has the right to liberty, that means that no one has the right to interfear with someone else's liberty. It's a two way street by it's very nature.

The 2+2 I get = "we just really don't know."

From the gaiaguys link Newinitiation provided above:

Of course “the profane” (the name for non-Freemasons) are not going to be told what really goes on. And, as in normal Freemasonry, those in the lower degrees have little idea what’s going on in the higher degrees, like in the Eleventh, about which nothing is said whatever in any (other?) grade. It has no relation to the general plan of the order. It is inscrutable and dwells in its own palace.

Newinitiation, instead of reading just the literature, why don't you join yourself and get first hand experience about the organization? Then you might know what really goes on.

To Cug

What is your interpretation of below? Are you going to tell me that I am still a lazy reader when the facts are right there before your eyes unless of course, the English language that you know of isn't the one that most people learn in the English speaking countries.

쟕he O.T.O. practices human sacrifice. It was founded by Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.

www.holysmoke.org...
ALEISTER CROWLEY AND THE O.T.O.
[The following is quoted from "Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 1, pp. 429-430.] Maury Terry, and American investigative journalist, tells in "The Ultimate Evil" how the O.T.O . got started in our country:
"After internal dissension, elements of the Golden Dawn more or less merged into the Ordo Templi Orientis. Aleister Crowley won permission to head a British OTO branch, and the teachings of the OTO entered the United States with Crowley in 1916, during World War I in Europe."

[edited to shortne, add citation, and use "ex" tags, please try to use this format -nygdan]

[edit on 24-6-2006 by Nygdan]

To vogelfire

What would be the point of joining such organization vogelfire?
Why would I go against the very principles that I am defending to just simply live a life based on lies just so that other people can satisfy their curiosities that they expect me to satisfy for them in the hope that they can prove to me what I already know to be vain yet something they cannot see anything wrong with?

Did you know you have to sign this before joining?

Ordo Templi Orientis U. S. A.
Informed Consent, Release and Indemnity
I, ___________________________________________, desire to participate voluntarily in the activities of Ordo Templi Orientis. I acknowledge that Ordo Templi Orientis provides activities and ceremonies of a religious nature for men and women, some of which are private initiation ceremonies with confidential proceedings. I acknowledge that the intent of all of the activities of Ordo Templi Orientis is to provide positive and enriching experiences for all who participate. With my signature below, I signify my acceptance of the rules and policies of Ordo Templi Orientis U.S.A. and the decisions of its officers and governing bodies.

I understand that every attempt is made to minimize the existing risks that are inherent in the nature of some of the activities involved through the use of proper equipment, safe facilities and sound safety practices. However, I also understand that these risks cannot be eliminated completely.

I realize that as a participant in the initiation ceremonies and other activities of Ordo Templi Orientis I could possibly incur bodily injuries. Due to the nature of these activities, injuries may be minor to fatal in nature. Some specific bodily injuries that are not uncommon to similar types of activities are listed below:

Stoppage of breathing; heart failure; stroke; spine and neck injuries (either of which could result in paralysis); broken bones; cuts and lacerations; bleeding; eye injuries (which could result in blindness); convulsion; unconsciousness; abrasions; fainting; sudden illness; cramps; loss of wind; drowning; and contracting of communicable diseases. In addition, there is a potential for accidents or illness while traveling to and from events.

I also realize that as a participant in the activities of Ordo Templi Orientis I could possibly incur non-bodily injuries, including, but not limited to: emotional, psychological, and social injuries; and damage to, or loss of, personal property. I understand that the lists above are not intended to be inclusive of all injuries that may occur, but rather to inform me of the type of risks inherent in my participation in the activities of Ordo Templi Orientis, so that I can make a voluntary choice to participate or not participate.
?br />I hereby affirm that I am voluntarily participating in any or all of the activities of Ordo Templi Orientis with full knowledge of the potential risks which they present, including risks of bodily, emotional, psychological, and social injury, property damage, and death, and I hereby agree to accept any and all risks of such bodily, emotional, psychological, and social injury, property damage, and death.

I agree to release and hold harmless Ordo Templi Orientis, Ordo Templi Orientis U.S.A. and their agents, volunteers, officers, employees, and directors, from liability for bodily, emotional, psychological, and social injury, property damage or death arising from my participation in the activities of Ordo Templi Orientis. I also agree to maintain confidentiality regarding the proceedings of the private religious initiation ceremonies of Ordo Templi Orientis and the documents related to those ceremonies. I give this release and indemnification in exchange for the opportunity for me to participate in the activities of Ordo Templi Orientis.

I certify that I have read this agreement, that it has been explained to me, and that I may be giving up legal rights which I may otherwise have. I acknowledge that I am at least eighteen (18) years of age.

Signed:
Date:

Hmm... reminds me of the release you have to sign to go to summer camp. Meant to cover an extremely broad range of activities - from using the climbing wall to sailboating to basket weaving to eating powdered eggs.

Originally posted by newinitiation
To Cug

What is your interpretation of below? Are you going to tell me that I am still a lazy reader when the facts are right there before your eyes unless of course, the English language that you know of isn't the one that most people learn in the English speaking countries.
:::snip:::
www.holysmoke.org...

Please direct your attention to the bottom part of that page. And once again I'm curious about why you disregarded half of the page you posted?

And BTW this came from a usenet posting on alt.religion.scientology. Usenet is not exactly noted for it's high standards of research.

Stoppage of breathing; heart failure; stroke; spine and neck injuries (either of which could result in paralysis); broken bones; cuts and lacerations; bleeding; eye injuries (which could result in blindness); convulsion; unconsciousness; abrasions; fainting; sudden illness; cramps; loss of wind; drowning; and contracting of communicable diseases. In addition, there is a potential for accidents or illness while traveling to and from events.

Just a perfectly standard cover your a.. (CYA) legalese. here is some pretty close from the Sport Club Program of The Ohio State University osufsc.org.ohio-state.edu...

one from the University of Tennessee web.utk.edu...







[edit on 6/24/2006 by Cug]

Originally posted by newinitiation


쟕he O.T.O. practices human sacrifice. It was founded by Aleister Crowley, who performed 150 human sacrifices, mostly on boys.

No, he didn't.

"After internal dissension, elements of the Golden Dawn more or less merged into the Ordo Templi Orientis.

No, they didn't.

Originally posted by Hobbes
Hmm... reminds me of the release you have to sign to go to summer camp.

Funny you say that. In fact, the majority of that form was taken verbatim from the release form for a soccer camp.

Pretty scary.

To forum

www.gaiaguys.net...

List of pertinent links and articles that puts all the strings together.

I just ran across an interesting article that shows there may indeed be a conspiracy within the O.T.O.

No, no, this one doesn't have anything to do with sacrificing babies or kidnapping and torturing Gaiaguys for kicks. Instead, Bishop T. Allen Greenfield, a long time high degree member of O.T.O., and Prelate of the O.T.O.'s Gnostic Catholic Church, has resigned his managerial duties in O.T.O., and has called upon all high ranking O.T.O. officers to do the same. He has, in effect, cast a vote of no confidence in everyone connected to O.T.O. leadership.

Greenfield's Essay

In essence, Greenfield accuses the O.T.O. leaders of power tripping, and basically, conspiring to use O.T.O. for personal gain. I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of our forum members, especially Thelemites and occultists, concerning Greenfield's charges.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I just ran across an interesting article that shows there may indeed be a conspiracy within the O.T.O.

This probably deserves it's own thread.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
... Bishop T. Allen Greenfield, a long time high degree member of O.T.O., and Prelate of the O.T.O.'s Gnostic Catholic Church, has resigned his managerial duties in O.T.O., and has called upon all high ranking O.T.O. officers to do the same. He has, in effect, cast a vote of no confidence in everyone connected to O.T.O. leadership.

Greenfield's Essay

The following statement is an effort to explain my actions, further elaborated upon in the Revised Second Edition (2006) of my anthology, “The Roots of Magick”...

Its disappointing that Greenfield is directing people to his book (details of purchase available from the aforementioned link) as this opens him up to accusations of profiteering.

I won't say any more now, but I've got some really explosive information about OTO corruption and links to freemasonry available in my book "All new corrupt secrets of the masons revealed" $49.99 from Welldodgy Publications Inc.

Ha!

It does detract from his credibility somewhat, in my humble estimation...

First of all, I believe this does deserve it's own thread. So I started one.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

See you there.

According to the Giaiguys website, nothing has been followed up in over a year. Does anyone else find this strange? Do it normally take this long to settle a case like this?

TK

What do you mean by "settle a case"?

Like the title of the thread said "Australian Freemasons (sic) win lawsuit against 'whistleblowers' site.

The only thing left is to claim damages.. and from what I have read the GG's are not paying. Who knows how long that can go on.