Australian Freemasons win lawsuit against 'whistleblowers' site

Originally posted by questions2u
Prescott Bush/freemason,H.W. Bush/freemason,G.W. Bush freemason,and georgy say's he can't discuss for secrecy reasons.Now that said,masonry brings out the best,

None of those guys have ever been Masons, but why let facts stand in the way of your little ranting tantrum, right?

so why don't you share it more with all men,get on the new's more,film more of your cerimonies,to show us how wonderful it is.

I dunno, maybe because it's none of your business?

Some Grandmaster's have been coming forward to say that you are no longer a secrect society but a private one,allow us to invade your privacy,show us how to be better men.

Well, you can start by laying off the acid.

What are your oppinions about Bohemian Grove,its so wonderful to be a mason,why the secrecy.How much are tickets to this wonderful play.

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Blair and George 33 degree masons,which makes them great men,no,however support for these men is pretty minimal.

Again, neither Blair nor Bush have ever been Masons, but don't let that stop your tirade, it's actually quite charming.

I will say this Mason light,my imaginary friend showed me the rings you guys make,very nice I have to admit.

Awww, how sweet.

Instead of attacking peoples character,which mason do best,show me masonry brings out the best,and then mabye I will come down and show you my nipple.

Unless you're really Heather Locklear, don't bother.

Alright, that's enough with the attitude gang. Let's show some respect for each other.

Another case of horror, with the same parallels as in Australia:

Dunblane update: Police involved in paedophile ring

Speculative Society linked to Dunblane massacre

As with the O.T.O., the Speculative Society is a Freemasonic side-branch. The judge presiding over the case is a member. He closed the massacre case with a 100-year censorship.

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this malicious thread but...

The Speculative Society has absolutely nothing to do with freemasonry, other than it was founded by some freemasons over 230 years ago. This is just another attempt by the media to make a story and sell newspapers. Thanks for bringing to all our attention though.

Incidentally, Thomas Hamilton wasn't a freemason either.

Due to the now obligatory witch hunt against freemasons on this thread, I feel that it is appropriate to say that I find the whole concept of paedophilia utterly abhorrent, as do the vast majority of right thinking people. However, whipping up hate toward any group which one might think is guilty of these acts can lead to vigilanteism of the worst kind such as the beating -up of a pediatrician some time ago on the South Coast by an ignorant mob fuelled by misinformation from the Press.

One needs to tread extra carefully with extra-contentious issues.

Originally posted by questions2u
Prescott Bush/freemason,H.W. Bush/freemason,G.W. Bush freemason,and georgy say's he can't discuss for secrecy reasons.

None of the above were Masons. Sorry to disappoint you.

Now that said,masonry brings out the best,so why don't you share it more with all men,get on the new's more,film more of your cerimonies,to show us how wonderful it is.

Why don't you videotape yourself having sex or using the toilet? Why don't you videotape yourself eating or having a phone conversation with your mother? How do we know what you do in your bedroom? You could be a shapeshifting lizardman who eats its mates after mating with them? If youre normal, then videotape every single activity of your daily life and prove to us you are a normal human.

You ever heard of a thing called dignity, privacy, and respect? Not everyone in this sick reality tv obsessed culture is fond of videotaping things of a personal, revrent nature. Ritual and ceremony in any group, religon, or society is a very deep, personal thing, not some cheap stage show to be filmed and broadcast to any curious gawking idiot looking for amusement. Some things still remain sacred to some people.

Some Grandmaster's have been coming forward to say that you are no longer a secrect society but a private one,allow us to invade your privacy,show us how to be better men.

Thats a pretty fascist thing to say. What gives you the right to invade the privacy of anyone? Just to satisfy your own weirdo curiosity? You seem like the type that is into the NWO big brother CCTV cameras everywhere society. I know of many organizations and businesses that are public, however, do not allow curious onlookers to wander in whenever they please.

What are your oppinions about Bohemian Grove,its so wonderful to be a mason,why the secrecy.How much are tickets to this wonderful play.

What does the Bohemian grove have to do with masonry? jack Crap. If a couple of Masons happen to be members, so what? I think its a rich boys club and it has nothing to do with Masonry at all.

Blair and George 33 degree masons,which makes them great men,no,however support for these men is pretty minimal.

Blair and george are Masons? Who told you that. the tooth fairy?

I will say this Mason light,my imaginary friend showed me the rings you guys make,very nice I have to admit.

If you have an imaginary friend thats showing you rings made by Masons, I strongly suggest getting some professional help before you hurt yourself and others.

Skull & Bones members are coming forward with interesting things to say,wow is the internet empowering,they are tired of the secrecy.

What does Skull and Bones have to do with Freemasonry? Skull and bones is a rich frat boy club who like doing strange things in crypts and who disturbingly end up in powerful positions. Freemasons are a fraternal estoric and spiritual order of men from all races, classes, and walks of life drawn together by a belief in something bigger then themselves.

Listen closely piramid lovers,some of your fellow brotherhood are leaking stuff into the net,allowing us to see inside your lodges,all over the world,and they paint such a different picture then what you tell us.Who is B.S.ing

If you are going to insult someone, learn to spell correctly. It is PYRAMID, not piramid. And so far, i haven't seen anyone who is a credible ex Mason show us anything evil, damning, or suspect. Who is BSing? probably the crackpots whose sites you seem to love to visit.

Your theory of evoution B.S. Erasmus Darwin,brilliant deception,King James a brillian mason with a lovely bible version,half truth/half lies combo.

Evolution has nothing to do with Masonry. Charles Darwin was not a Mason. His grandad was. get your facts straight.

Instead of attacking peoples character,which mason do best,show me masonry brings out the best,

The pot calls the kettle black. All you and others like you do is attack Freemasonry based on rumors and unconrimed facts and outright lies, and accuse Freemasons who disagree as either being part of a cover-up or as being ignorant of what goes on at the highest levels.

and then mabye I will come down and show you my nipple.

For the love of all thats holy, please don't. I have already seen enough unpleasant body parts after my visit to the hospital today.

Thank you for your time and replies to my posts fellow members (& Masons).I took this opertunatey to appear confused and ask questions// make statements which replicate someone un-informed.

You see my efforts were simply to observe your replies,and get a feel for a freemason's mind set.I have know desire to debate/quarell with any one.I simply wanted to study your behavior(the better man thing).

Please forgive me for my interests,as your brotherhood has exsisted for centuries and beyond I'm sure,and this intrigues me to study masonry.

My wild comments were nothing more than invitations to you for me to study.I know this thread is about Ausie masons,but I could not help but engage a few masons that have collected here.

I hope Gaia & masons continue there efforts to at least discuss issues.Both sides can learn from one another.I will go else where and continue my work with disernment of course.Peace my fellow humans,PEACE.

Oh, of course... You're not really ignorant. You were playing puppetmaster the whole time! Yeah... anyway good luck with your research. If you had the scantest inkling about your subject matter, you would know that Masons are as varied and diverse in their thinking as anyone else. It is therefore fruitless to try to determine a "Masonic mind-set". Freemasons aren't the homogenised occult footsoldiers that FMW and GaiaGuys would have us believe.

I am thoroughly relieved that you've decided to stop wasting everyone's time with your pseudo-intellectual games.

Peace.

Originally posted by Roark

It's pretty clear from the colourful little exposè on Jesus Christ further up the thread that the people who publish gaiaguys are either profoundly mad or severely misguided.

It appears that the above referenced post and its various "colorful" pictures and links have been deleted. I was wondering if the moderator was going to get around to doing that, especially when "respect" for one another (and, I assume, religious preference) is encouraged here. Since the webpage is written in Portugese but with an English translation, I am once again certain that it was/is the handiwork of Jose Barreto, gaiaguys' Brazilian contributor.

Originally posted by vogelfire
It appears that the above referenced post and its various "colorful" pictures and links have been deleted. I was wondering if the moderator was going to get around to doing that, especially when "respect" for one another (and, I assume, religious preference) is encouraged here. Since the webpage is written in Portugese but with an English translation, I am once again certain that it was/is the handiwork of Jose Barreto, gaiaguys' Brazilian contributor.

No doubt it was Mr. Barreto who coincedentally received a deaththread himself for his "enlightend work on the internet". And just like Mr. Devine he knows the truth yet somehow is unable to convince everyone which eventually resorts to even more agression. Sometimes these guys remind me of the Spanish Inquisition but now it's the "Truth Inquisition", this time lead by "the New Age Pope of Truth Billy Meier". Naturally Gaiaguys keep complaining on other boards of what's going on here;

"But even the internet (especially the internet!) is infested with spooks who have ruthless truth-obscuring agendas. Where is Billy Meier mentioned in all this chaff? That "Above Top Secret" discussion thread about me started by "terraX/terrarubicon" is a classic example of a constant flow of dirty lies that I can’t even sign onto and refute. www.abovetopsecret.com... It stands to reason that the same would apply to other scandals, of which I am unaware, too."

Of course these people who speak of the "truth" don't have an agenda themselves. Nahhh.

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[edit on 8-6-2006 by AgentSmith]

So you must have one then. I'm pleased to see you admit it.

Originally posted by Cug
Real facts? How many Thelemic works have you read? I'd wager none. I'm tired of this pussyfooting you people are doing it's time to put up or shut up.

I hereby challenge you to a debate in the debate forum.

Subject: Is the O.T.O. an organized group of child molesters?

Do you seriously think that such silly reduction of this enormous child abuse problem into an apt, neatly worded debate subject will amount to anything less than a silly waste of time that is nothing more than the expression of your blind loyality to such vile ideals that are degrading to human dignity.
Think outside the bloody square dammit! whatever the outcome of the debate you know as well as I do that it is not about the OTO per se but more to the point, its comes down to the sources that plants the seed of every persons actions that give rise to certain outcome we all judge as either good or bad, what preserves life or reduce it to ashes or what is conducive to life or what destroys it.

Your misplaced priorities you may deem it to be justified on the ground that every man has the right to believe, think, say, know, do, eat, go, as he pleases is laudible but excludes one critical element, namely its a sense of responsibility for all.

If as you say I am not informed enough to judge such organization you belong to in a negative context then give me some good reasons for me not to do so. What qualities and characteristics about the organization that uplifes and upholds the higher principles that moves most mans hearts and stirs the primal urges that brings all people across all boundaries and cultures together in a common bond without prejudice or discrimination?

I repeat, the subject of debate is ridiculous as it preimposes a prior judgement which you hold me to have made that neatly puts me on a black or white catagorised box in relation to where I stand.
I have clearly expressed my consternation for generalising everything and everyone because of the actions of a few, namely that the title is akin to thinking that because you are a catholic priest you are all paedophiles. This is such nonesense! and as it is the case with OTO or thelemites, just because there maybe a some paedophiles in the rank does not denote that everyone belonging to this organization is one BUT that the ideals espoused by such organizations would more than likely attract such peoples more so than say Oprah's book club.

Just think for a minute Cug and ask yourself, although you wouldn't need my prompting to do so, By being involved in such organization as you do, what legacies will you leave your children and your grandchildren? What impressions would you have left them with that they can cherish for the rest of their lives about you?
Most people would say the fact that you unconditionally loved and cared for them, that you were there in support for them and you took the time to accept them for the people they were.
But lets look at the other side of this, as you know the victims often not, becomes the perpetrator themselves usually coming from abusive and neglectful environment. This is what gets my blood boiling, the chainreaction never stops, it perpetuates intergenerationally because of the actions steming from certain thoughts and feelings that bring on this outcome. You guessed it, its the loveless mind that brings on various cruel intentions and outcomes that f**k everything up.

to be continued

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[edit on 8-6-2006 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by newinitiation

Your misplaced priorities you may deem it to be justified on the ground that every man has the right to believe, think, say, know, do, eat, go, as he pleases is laudible but excludes one critical element, namely its a sense of responsibility for all.

The only ones excluding anything are the GG's. They are excluding the texts that talk about the responsibilities.

If as you say I am not informed enough to judge such organization you belong to in a negative context then give me some good reasons for me not to do so. What qualities and characteristics about the organization that uplifes and upholds the higher principles that moves most mans hearts and stirs the primal urges that brings all people across all boundaries and cultures together in a common bond without prejudice or discrimination?

For the record, I'm not a member, but if things go according to plan I will be in July.

If you truly want to discuss this, It might be best for you to state your position so I have something to start with.

Originally posted by DeltaT
So you must have one then. I'm pleased to see you admit it.

And you as well seem to possess the 'quality' of ripping things out of context. Where did you learn that?

Newinitiation wrote:

This is such nonesense! and as it is the case with OTO or thelemites, just because there maybe a some paedophiles in the rank does not denote that everyone belonging to this organization is one BUT that the ideals espoused by such organizations would more than likely attract such peoples more so than say Oprah's book club.

Newinitiation, please clarify this statement. What ideals are espoused that could attract paedophiles to O.T.O.? Am I correct in assuming that you are simply comparing and contrasting Thelemic literature to the variety of literature offered by Oprah's book club?

Originally posted by Cug
For the record, I'm not a member, but if things go according to plan I will be in July.

If you truly want to discuss this, It might be best for you to state your position so I have something to start with.

Cug
My position is this. What goes against the immutable natural laws acts as the antithesis to the regularity, harmony, peace, freedom, love and preservation on which all things in this universe depend on for its existence.
Now you may not agree with me on this but some people have a misperception and misunderstanding of what natural law is.
They think its the law of the strong over the weak, it looks like they have taken on board quite literally the darwinian model of evolution as a fact for all biological life, BUT how wrong they are, they give you an example from their observation of the animal kingdom and think that it applies to human beings as well.
Of course they are right to some extent but only because we have remained barbaric.
Aren't we humans much more than a puss sucking fly, being endowed with a consciouness and all related powers steming from it, we have been given this enormous power to effect change to this universe YET is not the fly through the merit of its existence still a vital part of the foodchain and has its important place for our natural environment? Just observing the fly in flight and doing its thing, doesn't it evoke such mystery of how this pestilent insect through the working of nature could be created as such that we cannot even come close let along fly like it?
So then what does it all come down to in the end? - Obviously love, respect, reverence, honour of all things created because every single existence is an expression of the mysterious forces of nature and the higher forces it was originally created by.
So having read 'the book of law' and contemplated what it really meant or what it was giving expression to, the only logical conclusion was that in the end it was against life, against the very principles of life on which all life subsides.

Just think about it, how much more pain and suffering do we all have to endure before enough of us can finally see with our own eyes that every cause has an effect and likewise every effect has a cause eg. vengence creating more vengence, hate bringing on more hate, destruction creating more destruction, murder for murder, cruelty for more cruelty, retaliation returned for retaliation, betrayal for betrayal, callousness for more callousness, suspicion for suspicion, ill will for ill will, negativity for negativity etc.

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[edit on 8-6-2006 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by vogelfire
Newinitiation, please clarify this statement. What ideals are espoused that could attract paedophiles to O.T.O.? Am I correct in assuming that you are simply comparing and contrasting Thelemic literature to the variety of literature offered by Oprah's book club?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

III,43: Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered. (Book of Law)

www.rahoorkhuit.net...

It is unwise to condemn the practice of savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary and consume them while warm.

To achieve the highest spiritual working you must choose the victim which contains the greatest and purest force.

A perfectly innocent and highly intelligent male child is the best victim.

Bloody, human sacrifice is best.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
excerpts from 'White Stains'

When thy warm sweat should leave me cold,
And my worn soul find out no bliss
In the obscenities I kiss,
And the things shameful that I hold.

My nostrils sniff the luxury
Of flesh decaying, bowels torn
Of festive worms, like Venus, born
Of entrails foaming like the sea.

Yea, thou art dead. Thy buttocks now
Are swan-soft, and thou sweatest not;
And hast a strange desire begot
In me, to lick thy bloody brow;

To gnaw thy hollow cheeks, and pull
Thy lustful tongue from out it's sheath;
To wallow in the bowels of death,
And rip thy belly, and fill full

My hands with all putridities;
To chew thy dainty testicles;
To revel with the worms in Hell's
Delight in such obscenities;

To pour within thine heart the seed
Mingled with poisonous discharge
From a swollen gland, inflamed and large
With gonorrhoea's delicious breed;

To probe thy belly, and to drink
The godless fluids, and the pool
Of rank putrescence from the stool
Thy hanged corpse gave, whose luscious stink

Excites these songs sublime. The rod
Gains new desire; dive, howl, cling, suck,
Rave, shreik, and chew; excite the f--k,
Hold me, I come! I'm dead! My God!


Vogelfire

I don't know about you vogelfire but a brief glance at my own reflection from the mirror after reading thelemic texts which above is just a tidbit from Crowley, I saw nothing in my expression but a sense of disdain and this blank expression in my eyes that was soul less, wreckless and unrelentingly barbaric.


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[edit on 8-6-2006 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by questions2u
Thank you for your time and replies to my posts fellow members (& Masons).I took this opertunatey to appear confused and ask questions// make statements which replicate someone un-informed.

You see my efforts were simply to observe your replies,and get a feel for a freemason's mind set.I have know desire to debate/quarell with any one.I simply wanted to study your behavior(the better man thing).

Please forgive me for my interests,as your brotherhood has exsisted for centuries and beyond I'm sure,and this intrigues me to study masonry.

My wild comments were nothing more than invitations to you for me to study.I know this thread is about Ausie masons,but I could not help but engage a few masons that have collected here

I hope Gaia & masons continue there efforts to at least discuss issues.Both sides can learn from one another.I will go else where and continue my work with disernment of course.Peace my fellow humans,PEACE.

After following this thread with some interest, the most I can contribute is:

Huh?

What?

Uh, O.K.

Originally posted by newinitiation
[
My position is this. What goes against the immutable natural laws acts as the antithesis to the regularity, harmony, peace, freedom, love and preservation on which all things in this universe depend on for its existence.

I agree 100% And the Law of Thelema is the immutable natural law. You just don't understand it. One thing to keep in mind is that the Holy Books of Thelema are not literal book. They are full of allegories and metaphors (so is most of Crowley's writing).

Well here goes, Cug's Law of Thelema for dummies** (As in the book series, I'm not namecalling )

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law is the most often heard phrase in Thelema. Like I and many others have said before it does not mean do whatever you want. It means to follow your true Will. This is one of the major differences between Christianity and Thelema, A Christian follows Gods Will (Thy will be done), A Thelemite follows his or her Will. Everything about Thelema is based around this one idea, everything.

Every man and every woman is a star. So now if everybody followed their own Will, there will be no conflicts, as everyone has their own unique path to follow like the stars in the sky. If you should try and interfear with someones will you will be deviating from following your own Will. You will also be restricting their Will. The word of Sin is Restriction.

You will find when you start deviating from your true Will, life in general will get harder and less and less enjoyable. I'm sure you have heard stories of what most people would call a very successful person, say a doctor, lawyer, moviestar, things like that, but are really quite unhappy with their lives, many resort to drugs and alcohol to make themselves feel better but off they go in a downward slide. Others quit their successful jobs and become a farmer, a baker, or a potter, a job many would think is beneath them, but they are much happier with their life. That is an example of someone following their true Will.

Now what happens if say two people happen to think that it is their Will to eat a particular apple? Well, you fight for it. As brothers fight ye! but this is not fighting to the death, it is fighting like brothers, basically fighting like say a boxer with respect and honor for your opponent. If it really is your will to eat that apple you will win. This is not like social Darwinism idea of survival of the fitest. As even a strong man, will not be able to overcome diverting from his Will. Yep this is a bit idealistic outcome of an extream example. (A football palyer will squish the average Joe in this case, but he has now diverted from his true Will and the effect on his life will be almost karmic in nature.) But say that two people both think it is their Will to hold a certain position in the company they work for. They still fight for it, but instead of a literal fight, they fight each other by working harder, being smarter, and otherwise proving they are best for the position. The persons who's true Will is to hold that job will prevail.

Again the greatest sin a Thelemite can do is to restrict someones Will. Now sex with a child (who can not give permission) is restricting the child's Will, Murder certainly restricts someones true Will. You can't call a person who does such a think a real Thelemite and that their actions were supported by, or approved of by Thelemic documents and groups, just like you can't call a Christian who does the same thing a true Christion, supported by the bible, or Christian churches/groups. These are disturbed individuals who need to be put away.

On to your next post... But you haven't made any comments so I'm just going to guess what you think is wrong with the quotes provided.

III,43: Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetness; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered. (Book of Law)

First of all this bit is only speaking to one person, Crowley's wife Rose.

I'm guessing the first bit you have problems is the compassion but. Yes commpassion/pity is a Thelemic vice, and really should be. But what is a vice? Gambling is a vice, yet many people do it, and enjoy it and have no problems with it... Yet some people can't control themselves and their lives go spinning out of control. Pity/compassion work the same way.

For example, say you had a friend who just separated from his wife, you took pity on him or had compassion for him and let him stay at your place. If he stays a few weeks then find a place no harm done. But if he starts mooching off you, and never seems to be looking for a place months later but you don't give him the boot, your pity/compassion has harmed you.

The rest of this like I said was directed to his wife.. it was a prophecy The Crowley's lost their little girl, and Rose ended up committed for alcoholism.

It is unwise to condemn the practice of savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary and consume them while warm.

To achieve the highest spiritual working you must choose the victim which contains the greatest and purest force.

A perfectly innocent and highly intelligent male child is the best victim.

Bloody, human sacrifice is best.

Ah yes Chapter 12 of Magick in Theory and Practice. Tell me did you happen to read the footnotes? Is there some reason you have accepted this text as the gospel truth so to speak but then procede to ignore the rest of what he wrote in that chapter?

This chapter is a combination of two basic things. 1) The historical reasoning for the practice of sacrifice 2) Metaphors having to do with Sex Magick. Why do you (and others) seem to totally disregard the sex magick part? Like I said many many many times in this thread, male child = Sperm or more exactlay sperm released in a fashion as to prevent any possible conception from happening. Masturbation, oral and anal sex to be precise, as people don't seem to get what I mean when I say spilling the seed.

You must remember the time that this book came out (1929). This was a time when the guy printing the book often omitted any page because it offended him. And this book was Crowley's magmun opus, he wanted it distributed widely and Book shop owners just would not sell things With sexual content (that is if the government didn't ban the book first) As for why he used sacrifice as a metaphor for sex. Yep it's odd but I think it looks worse for those defending the Christian morals of that time that they felt that child/human/animal sacrifice was a more "proper" topic than sex.

excerpts from 'White Stains'

Yep Crowley wrote some sick porno in fact this has been called "the filthiest book of verse ever written". Do you somehow think that this is a Thelemic Holy book??? You might not like what he wrote, and think his morals were nonexistent and that's is your right. But this is a poem, a work of fiction, not a statement of fact, or a "guide to proper living." Would you also say that a writer of horror books was a sicko? How many deranged ways were underaged teenage girls offed in the Friday the 13th movies? Do viewers of these films go out and emulate the actions of Jason? Do the directors expect people to to emulate Jason? No! And neither was Crowley

Oh BTW I'm not so sure about your morals.. posting part of a pornographic poem in a place where you know there are children viewing. Poor taste my man, Those who wanted to view it can easily find it in a google search so there was no need

Holy cow this was my longest post ever. I have 9 characters left of my 8000.

[edit on 6/8/2006 by Cug]

Newinitiation wrote:

I don't know about you vogelfire but a brief glance at my own reflection from the mirror after reading thelemic texts which above is just a tidbit from Crowley, I saw nothing in my expression but a sense of disdain and this blank expression in my eyes that was soul less, wreckless and unrelentingly barbaric.

Okay, Newinitiation, I'm finally getting clear about where you're coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you are saying that it is the Thelemic literature itself that would likely attract paedophiles and "soul less, wreckless and unrelentinglly barbaric" individuals even though this literature is to be read as metaphor or poetry and not to be taken literally.

My main problem here is that it's my understanding that these kinds of individuals would not be allowed in, or if they were, they would be quickly banished once discovered. How do you respond to this?

To Cug

Thanks for taking the time to clarify a few things Cug but yet your watered down synopsis doesn't negate the benal vileness of Crowley's doctrines, for just as well when viewed in its entirety, if you listen hard enough to your conscience, it will speak for the voices of so many peace loving people who decries the filthy element potentiate of the degenerate side of human nature which rears its ugly head unrestrained from the effect of such doctrines espoused.

Truly its as ridiculous to expect the Christians not to live their lives based on the teachings from the bible as it is for a thelemite or the members of OTO not to walk the path laid down by the thelemic scriptures.
It would be a very naive assumption to think that you people are only drawn to the theoretical aspect of thelemism which your above post gives the impression of.

Sure, you'd know much more about this self professed religion than I do but truly, give any common man or a woman some information about thelemism to gauge for yourself the reasons for their disgust and you'd realise, just as Crowley did what he believed in, the abhorrent actions he engaged in was THE wholesale expression of the beliefs which represents Thelemism.
I don't think you could separate Crowley with his Thelemic doctrines for each was an integral part of each other, just as what the sun is to the sunlight what the sunlight is to the sun.

And as if your questioning of my morals over posting the white sands from where you stand is not at all an expression of your incongruous doubts of your own beliefs, afterall it is not I but you who in the end must deal with the psychical and spiritual suicide you have embarked on.
You'd continue to be exasperated and ask what the f**k is it about Thelemism that people just don't seem to get that they object to it over and over again, but truly ask yourself whether its actually you who is blinded by your passions and your inability to connect with your own conscience.

There is just no two ways about it Cug, morality is morality, ethics is ethics, virtue is virtue, decency is decency, good is good, justice is justice just as bad is bad, depraved is depraved, degenerate is degenerate, hate is hate, violence is violence, nagative is negative etc.

I hope you and others like yourself can see past the veil and penetrate to the core and the essence of what Thelemism really represents to the wider world of things and to discover for yourself what it truly is and to realise the undercurrent of rotting corpses strewn across its desolate path laid bare.