Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

www.virtuallystrange.net...

A post from Bill Hamilton -- Scyscrapper -- a mail from Paul Mcgovern to Rick Doty talkinng about the anonymus dude who's posting things on serpo.org

hmmm, and now it’s starting to look even more phooey… wonder if we’ll ever get to see the oh so cool pictures *laughs*

Oh ye of little faith. Don't expect this to be the first hoax that you get to experience first-hand I suffered through a few that I had to call-in long distance, log into a BBS, and pour through crap that was piled high and deep. Unlike now, where information is accessible at warp speed, thanks to the internet, people didn't both to check their facts back then, thinking that it would be impossible to find their inconsistencies. Hence, the internet clobbered many hoaxes before they got off the ground (notice how all the best stuff is pre-internet?)

I actually *fully* expect to see pictures from the Serpo folks. Will they be real? That's a good question. Most likely, they will be obviously hoaxed photos that bury actual subject matter within the hoax, thereby throwing us off the trail further (the logic being that if the picture is fake, then the subject matter must be a fake also -- what if the picture is a fake, but they inserted truths within the faked picture? People will naturally tend to associate a fake photo with fake subject matter...)

Doty's Response....

Ricahrd Doty responded to the earlier email from Dan Deppeller, as follows:

Mr. Deppeller:

In response to your below email, I would like to challenge Mr. Burisch's General Affidavit. This document means absolutely nothing. Unless an Affidavit is presented in a court of law and sworn under oath during a trial, it means nothing. You can threaten anyone into investigating this document. But regardless of what you say, the document means nothing. I know MJ 12 existed. That part if fact. I know we had some visitors, that part is fact. But as for the Tau 9 Treaty, I have never heard this, nor has anyone within the DIA or relevant offices knows of it. It may have existed and has been secret for all these years. I do not know Mr. Burisch. I cannot comment on his allegations. But I can say no one, who had access to the information over the years, has ever heard of a Tau 9 Treaty. On the other hand, the people in the know heard of the exchange program. I read about it in a summary several years ago but I never had access to any details. Whether the information coming from Mr. Anonymous is all fact; that will be decided when a final disclosure is completed.

You mention two former members of MJ 12 would confirm Mr. Burisch's information. But you did not name these people. Please name these two in order to give more credibility to your statement.

I am an aggressive investigator. I will take you challenge and delve into this Burisch story. I will overturn each stone, interview all relevant people and even search files, both government and private. Once I complete this investigative journey, I will go public, disclosing everything I find, regardless of what that might be.

If Mr. Burisch's story is proven right, I will go public and state this. However, if the story is proven wrong, I will trounce on it and everyone associated with it.

Richard C. Doty

It's interesting that these folks are getting into a spat, at this point. Is Burisch for real and getting the disinfo campaign from Doty? Is he lying and getting the smack-down from Doty? More importantly, are we learning anything about disclosure from Serpo or Burisch?

FYI, from a legal perspective, all of Burisch's and his wife's affadavits are balogny and Doty doesn't know what he's talking about either. In a true court (Article III, U.S.) affadavits are generally not used. Testimony is taken via deposition and then the witnesses are placed on the stand for further testimony (usually the same stuff as was in the deposition). Burisch is simply grandstanding with his self-serving depositions.

To be honest, reading the stuff that all these people have written just tells me that the "key players" in the UFO "community" are a bunch of dimwits that are solely concerned with their own status.

Still... there are clues everywhere. The real question is which ones point in the right direction?

Have t read this new material but offhand I question whether a court of law would provide anything of value. As I have learned the law is not all about truth, nor trust, nor in most cases is it a search for those things other than what the attorneys want to argue.

Think about it: We have a trial, people are empaneled to make a decision. But before they make a decision they are schooled in the way to think in making that decision. They are essentially told how to decide in terms of law. They are not deciding what is right and wrong. They are not deciding if a person acted under the only mechanism available.

They are essentially deciding what the law tells them to decide. Not a just system at all.

I apologize if I am getting too far from the point of the thread. My point is a court can't tell the truth if the truth is not admitted in the court.

My point is a court can't tell the truth if the truth is not admitted in the court

It's not uncommon for the whole argument in a criminal trial to be over the admissibility of the evidence. If the damning evidence turns out to be inadmissible, for example due to a violation of an accused's constitutional protection against unlawful search and seizure, then the charges will be dismissed. Having evidence is one thing, but having evidence that is admissible in court is another. You might look up "the fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine, if this subject interests you, or pickup a book on basic criminal procedures (not criminal law -- although related, these are two separate subject).

Dan Burisch's affadavits would not be admissible in a civil trial. He would be available to testify, thus the affadavit (hearsay evidence) would be excluded in favor of his live testimony. Thus, both he and Doty are completely ignorant when it comes to the rules of evidence and the value of Burisch's affidavit (Doty did get one part right -- argue about it all you want, the affidavit is meaningless).

[edit on 14-12-2005 by Centrist]

Great explanation Centrist. And after reading some of the other info posted here and the sites listed I agree wholeheartedly.

Originally posted by Musclor

On this page you can see some drawings of ebens : www.astrosciences.info...

Has anyone considered this and wondered why the Roswell aliens were referred to as "Ebens". Maybe I missed something over the years, but I had never heard that term used for the Roswell aliens prior to the Serpo disclosure. Can anyone confirm (with sources) the use of the term "Eben" as a term that didn't also includes "greys" prior to Serpo?

Also, was anyone else aware of the distinction between the "Ebens" and "Greys" before Serpo? I was not.

This, according to the site referred by Musclor, is an "Eben"



Whereas, this is a "Grey".

After reading a few of Centrist's posts I'm not sure what to say. I'm still eagerly awaiting the promised pictures but I've learned, that when it comes to UFOs and aliens, not to get your hopes up. It is evidant that someone, or a group of people, are putting some considerable effort into this whole story.

Nothing seems to corroborate to the theory of it being a promotional stunt for a game or movie, there is little or no effort made for recognition or web site hits. The meta tags are woefully short, there're no link exchanges, hell there isn't even a logo. A logo or emblem is one of the highest prioities for a marketing campaign because it helps in what is known as "product recognition". It seems the bulk of the publicity Serpo is recieving is from interested message boards such as ATS.

It seems more likely to be disinformation, if in fact it turns out to be false. However, since most of us have never heard of an "Eben" I see little to disinform us about. Since most of this story never appeared before the Serpo site started it seems odd that an over extended government would take the time to mess with us. Of course if it is in fact disinformation then it must hold at least an iota of truth. I find it to be hardly beneficial for the government to create yet another hoax because whether or not it's a hoax some people will still believe it, some will say it's the gospel truth. I guess I just fail to see the motivation for it being a disinformation campaign.

No offense Centrist but I think you're being a bit harsh, the general rule is to keep an open mind until somthing is proven false. There've been many things both you and I have lived to see that only ten years ago we would've believed as an impossibility. However, I do share your skepticism on this subject, there is little or no corroboration available for us to compare the "facts" to. The author is anonymous and the information is second or third hand through an e-mail list, there've been no pictures, maps, or even drawings so far save for the photo copies of previously released information.

If we remain so skeptical that we boycott any site professing to have information then we will neevr find the truth. Regardless of what governments or fellow ATSers say I know what I believe, and I believe one day we will learn the truth. The one thing that does ring to true about the whole Serpo story is how dismally it failed. Our inability to communicate with the Ebens, our problems understanding their technology etc. This sounds to me very much what it would be like. Imagine, if you will, a gorup of modern New Yorkers visiting some African tribesman from the 1700s, the tribesman would have toruble understanding what a planet is let alone how a combustion engine works, or even an i-pod. Yet through out the enitre story there is no great breakthrough as there would be in a ficitonal story, everything goes wrong and we sort of give up. I find it easy to believe that we could've been to another planet and then realized it wasn't worth the effort, look at our trips to the moon. I don't think a professional writer would stake his career on this story.

I think Centrist is wrong in labeling this a hoax at this point. Rather, I don't believe we should label it as anything other than an entertaining story. Granted, we may "lose face" if this all turns out to be a hoax, but for the sake of the truth, and the eventual disclosure of all information, we should keep an open mind. If this is a "test", to see how well we'd handle real disclosure, then for Odin's sake let's handle this like adults, like researchers, like poeple concerned for the truth. Infighting will get us nowhere and if this is true or a hoax I'm sure we'll fiugure it out first on ATS.

ok i give this till the new year, if the pictures arent there then well i believe we can call this all a hoax, or can we Has anyone tried to send a e mail to him i mean Could something have happend Am i deliberatly going in sanemmmm

Originally posted by ATSGUY
ok i give this till the new year, if the pictures arent there then well i believe we can call this all a hoax, or can we

Has anyone tried to send a e mail to him i mean Could something have happend

Am i deliberatly going in sane

mmmm

Funny you should ask. I asked a series of question to Bill Ryan, the messneger for Anonymous. Here are his responses to my questions:

Text
Dear XXXXXX –

Many thanks for your message. If anyone else on your website/board also would appreciate the answers to these questions, please share them openly – with my respects and best regards to all.

Responses below in your text –

Best wishes, Bill


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: XXXXXXXXX (erased for privacy)
Date: 14 Dec 2005 22:53:46 -0000
To: "Serpo.org"
Subject: Contact

I am a member of the Above Top Secret web site and have been following an active thread with regards to this site. I have listened to the C2C program and so find this all very intriguing. Several folks have made comments about this site and I would like for someone to post clarifications as to these questions:

1. Is this site a front for a book deal or intended motion picture.

Absolutely not. (I love the question, though, and understand where it’s coming from.)

2. Is Dr. Dan Burisch involved with this site?

No, in no way; no connection. Burisch is actually a Serpo critic, so we’re told.

3. Why the long delay in the release of the pictures?

Beyond our control. We’re waiting every day like everyone else. We’ve not heard from Anonymous for some five long days. My personal cautious guess, for what it’s worth, is that the images will appear shortly before Christmas. If they never appear at all, then we may all just as well pack up and go home, having got this far and gone out on this long a limb. My own role in this is as an honest messenger. Whatever the truth is, I’ll tell it to anyone who asks – if I know!

I’m happy to be wrong. My commitment is to the truth. It’s not about me or any position I have. But I’m also certain there’s fire behind all this smoke – there’s something going on, for sure. There are too many independent, reliable corroborations of an exchange program of some sort in that 60s-70s timeframe. This is not a “lone nut” operation.

4. Can it be told ahead of time what type of film and technology was used in the photographs? Please provide anything that would substantiate the authenticity of these photos.

Absolutely no idea, right now. The agreed process for our obtaining the photos is that Anonymous and his colleagues have been provided with the FTP details of the server hosting the website – and then we’ll wake up one morning and there they’ll be. I check every few hours! The photos will be electronic images – and I’m aware that that in itself presents a verification problem. We’re almost certainly not going to get printed photos, or negatives. My own view is that more helpful still (but not as dramatic) would be images from the 3,000 page report. Some pages of the astrophysical calculations of the binary star orbits would be really valuable: advanced math can’t be faked.

5. Can it be told ahead of time whether or not these photographs are clear, fuzzy, over-exposed, under-exposed, etc...? The UFO community would like to know how easy it will be to make out the aliens and their homeworld.

I’m afraid I have absolutely no idea.

6. Have these photographs already been analyzed? Can it be stated on the record that these are not photoshopped or the product of digital imaging.

Ditto.

7. Why is a marketing firm used to host this site?

If you mean the company in whose name the site is registered, it’s a company I used to work with last year – the details were already registered with the hosting company (www.names.co.uk), and it was convenient to continue using them; I also didn’t have to provide my own private address, which I appreciated. The company is a UK real estate investment company and is completely unconnected with any of this.

Thanks and kinds regards,

No problem! Happy to answer any further questions if I can. I want to avoid all any any misunderstandings or assumptions, and am delighted to have a dialogue with everyone out there. I’m hard to reach at times, but am also happy to speak on the phone if I can make it. I meant it when I said on the site that the best place to hide is in the open – if I were trying to conceal anything to do with myself or my own role, this would only obfuscate things further and would not help anyone.

With best wishes to all – Bill

XXXXXXXXXXX (erased for privacy)

--------------------

REMOTE IP : xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (erased for privacy)

DATE/TIME : 2005-12-14 22:53:46


[edit on 14-12-2005 by Freenrgy2]

My opinion- Anything posted anonymous troubles me. It raises my fraud radar. Doty at best has been semi-believable at times. Dr. Dans creds are really suspicious. Especially since his name turns up with multiple spellings and his academic creds are flimsy at best. Heck he may not even be a doc. Can you say Bob Lazar?
This whole Serpo thing reeks of something along the lines of the pleiadian episode.
Of course there wont be any photo copies or negs. They are too hard to phony up. And too easy to analyze. Probably end up with some kinda 2nd generation digital job that will be Useless for analysis.
Just my opinion.
If only we had some evidence. so far I havent seen any.
And no Im not a skeptic just skeptical. In all the years I've been involved in UFOs I've been burned a time or two so now I put my toe in the water to see what the temp is before i go jumpin in.

Kudos Freenrgy2...Only thing I would of wanted to know is why Bill Ryan is willing to put his name on the line with this. What's the thing that is really convincing him to believe in this being true versus lots of other stories?

Nice job.

Originally posted by Boogie
Kudos Freenrgy2...Only thing I would of wanted to know is why Bill Ryan is willing to put his name on the line with this. What's the thing that is really convincing him to believe in this being true versus lots of other stories?

Yes, good work Freenrgy2! Although I don't know much about Bill Ryan, at least he comes off credibly. Another person who I wouldn't have suspected of throwing "outright" support toward the veracity of Serpo is Michael Salla. I know he's published some things as true that aren't necessarily verified or even verifiable, but he's an excellent research and a truly intelligent person. I had the pleasure of meeting him a while ago and was genuinely impressed at how he handles his research.

In Michael Salla's yahoo discussion group, he notes as follows with regard to the Project Serpo site:

According to a number of well placed
sources, much of the information is authentic and is part of a
disclosure initiative. . . . I believe it well worth monitoring this website for new disclosures. -- Michael Salla, November 28, 2005

It's interesting that there is some actual "buzz" within certain UFO boards that this may be for real.

I think Centrist is wrong in labeling this a hoax at this point. Rather, I don't believe we should label it as anything other than an entertaining story.

If I'm coming across this way, it's not intentionally. I waver back and forth on what I think is going on here. I completely agree that we should all keep an open mind and wait for evidence. Personally, at the exact moment in time when I'm writing this, I think that there may be something to all this. No promises I'll feel that way by the time I hit the "post" button

Do any of you think this info is being "leaked" because of the inevitable occurance of an EBE craft sighted by the new civilian space program that the Virgin airline guy is starting in New Mexico?


Heck if Russian and US astronauts have seen them, so are we.

Originally posted by Frankenchrist
Do any of you think this info is being "leaked" because of the inevitable occurance of an EBE craft sighted by the new civilian space program that the Virgin airline guy is starting in New Mexico?


Heck if Russian and US astronauts have seen them, so are we.

This is a thought I have been entertaining lately. I think governmets will be forced to Disclosure because of the privateflight/ business sector.
There will be too many people coming back from space with pictures/ tape of things they were not supposed to see.
Disclosure is inevitable now and I think it will have to happen soon. Those private sector flights will be up and running 3 to 4 years from now or something. Not so long...

Originally posted by Frankenchrist
Do any of you think this info is being "leaked" because of the inevitable occurance of an EBE craft sighted by the new civilian space program that the Virgin airline guy is starting in New Mexico?


Heck if Russian and US astronauts have seen them, so are we.

That is definately an interesting take. Up until recently the various "space-faring" agencies have been able to control what the public see of what is beyond our atmosphere.

Any photos of strange craft are fuzzy and difficult to make out. But maybe with this civilian space program, we will get clear images and video of what is flying around above our atmosphere, solid indisputable proof.

The agencies and governments can't dictate what is seen and photographed from civilian space vehicles. Maybe we are being slowly prepared for the truth, or part of the truth, as it is inevitable that we will find some concrete evidence in a couple of years. If this happens without some disclosure, then there will be a lot of quetions asked, agencies and people in power will find themselves discredited severely.

Who knows where this is going, but I am enjoying the ride!

Hello

I think people should all follow this event with calm and wisdom. Please keep this in mind. There is far too much nervousness, rumours, suspicions and hasty conclusions on the web, just because people are impatient.

It's nice that people question themselves, but i think this is going too far way sometimes and leads to "internal wars" about who is right and wrong, which is just stupid. Unfortunatelly this behavior is still in human nature... And this will not help anything for sure.

Be patient, my friends.

[edit on 15/12/2005 by Musclor]

By the Way...

Isn't EBE short-speak for Extraterrestrial Biological Entity? If that is the case, then the EBEn thing might be solved... Kind of like Missourian is a person from Missouri...

Just a thought.

Originally posted by Centrist
Just reading the posts on that board, I have a very strong feeling that my earlier icky feeling isn't going away anytime soon. My money's on Dan Burisch being anonymous. And I think we can start making a case our for it.

Well done Centrist / Freenrgy2 - I listened to the first C2C show and must admit Bill Ryan sounds very credible. This answer below from him, I do find a bit over the top: My understanding is that he does not know who "Anonymous plus" are, hence Dr Burisch might be involved ? ?

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

2. Is Dr. Dan Burisch involved with this site?

No, in no way; no connection. Burisch is actually a Serpo critic, so we’re told.

Must say the conversation technique of Dr Burisch "sounds" very funny to me here.

The game continues.....::

Originally posted by sigung86
By the Way...

Isn't EBE short-speak for Extraterrestrial Biological Entity? If that is the case, then the EBEn thing might be solved... Kind of like Missourian is a person from Missouri...

Just a thought.

Bill Ryan has pointed out on C2C that this is the name that the project people gave the aliens as it stands for Extraterrestial Biological ENtity (EBEN).