Falluja WMD horror scoop aired tomorrow

*Waves at Corny

Cornelia is a friend of mine. I've known her for a long time on the net, and have a lot of respect for her. She went out on a limb here and posted what she had. I feel that after reading the thread, ATS has failed to Deny Ignorance.

You've run around saying this is all political and it is propoganda. Please look at some of the links that others have posted.

There is one point that I want to pursue. You say that Napalm has not been used on Iraqi's. It depends on what you define as Napalm. The US gov't has simply changed the "ingredients" but with the same results.

The US gov't has admitted to using MK 77 MOD 5 in Fullujah. That was posted in this thread if you bothered to read it. The only reason MK 77 Mod 5 is different from Napalm is because they've used Kerosene instead of Gasoline. Another link in this thread points out that because they used Kerosene this chemical weapon is very sticky. It sticks to the body and lungs.

Now before you tell me that this is all bogus, there is no such thing as MK 77 Mod 5.... please explain to me why the US government has advertised to make this weapon?

www.iraqanalysis.org...

Because they want it, and they've found it effective.

What bothers me the most is that our government did not learn from Vietnam. Further, they've changed the name and hid it from the American public.

No one in this thread seems to be upset that children have died because of this. Would you want your child to die like this? Where is the humanity?

What bothers me is that people here are so misinformed. WP is not a WMD High Explosives have a more devastating effect pound for pound - wait are they chemical weapons as well because they use chemicals ? Why can't people make a distinction, are they that dull ?

It is laughable that some here think that someone who has been burnt is worse than some who has been ripped to pieces by HE.

Anyway, some members here, have been exposed by their utterly flase statements. They are either uninformed or dull.

Cornelia

You are probably sincere in your quest to get to the truth of this, and your horror is no doubt genuine.

I downloaded the 43.8Mbyte file and watched it, and have come to the conclusion that it is an average package of anti-American propaganda.

Apart from the technical arguments, two things capped it for me:

1.

this video is made by professional journalist of the italian public network, like the BBC.

And that's the problem. It just seemed too smooth, the scenes too staged for good light, with all the time in the world to shoot them. Not something I would have expected from Fallujah in the aftermath.

2. Why did they pick that final scene to wrap up the film? That scene has been around for a long time and as someone pointed out, inserting it here would imply that it is another example of American atrocities. Not true, if you saw the complete scene, and it was a totally rookie move to use it here.

Anyway, don't let our well-intended criticism stop you from seeking the truth.

Originally posted by Dronetek

Originally posted by iamian

Originally posted by DronetekHello Dronetek, Your right scientificly how could i possibly know, my view is only to discover the truth about what i've seen, i want answers and i'll take on board everything i'm reading on this thread, i only come to such a
myopic view simply because i have'nt seen the full picture yet, you must admit the video is disturbing and needs to been analized,
one other thing, why would you think my view of America is shortsighted?

Your view is obviously shortsighted because out of 2 groups who are probably responsible, you pick the guys who are there for the best intentions. Lets not forget the marines are there at the very least, to protect their buddy fighting next to them. The opposition is there to instill fear and fight for the power to impose their harsh rule. They use human shields and schools to fight behind. They kill people by the hundreds and saw the heads off innocent living people. How could you come to the conclusion that America is behind this? There is zero evidence in this video to point a finger at anyone!

Look, I’m not claiming that I have the definitive answer on all of this. However I do know that America is in Iraq for good. You may hate our politicians and our leaders but the fact still remain the average American is a virtuous person. This is especially true when we are talking about American soldiers. These men and woman are in a situation they had no control over, yet strive to do their best to fix Iraq.

We in America are under no illusions. We were wrong about the WMD. That being said, we still support this war. Iraq is messed up and if there is anyone who should risk their lives to fix it, it’s the US.
[edit on 7-11-2005 by Dronetek]

I tried to be gracious in my reply to you Dronetek, i have'nt even come to an opinion yet, but yet again you insult my inteligense, you really have a dim view, i'm sorry to go off topic, but i hate ignorence.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by iamian]

Originally posted by Cornelia
www.rainews24.rai.it...

This is a very serious message.
Tomorrow morning the italian news network RaiNews24, at 7,30 italian time, will air worldwide a shocking 20 min. video with the definitive proof of large WMD use in Falluja battle.
Cornelia

HI Cornelia, is there any reaction to the film in italy??

Fallujah is known for for the Resistance.

In the spring of 1920, the British, who had gained control of Iraq after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, sent Lt. Col. Gerard Leachman, a renowned explorer and a senior colonial officer, to quell a rebellion in Fallujah. Leachman was killed just south of the city in a fight with local leader Shaykh Dhari. The British sent an army to crush the rebellion, and the ensuing fight took the lives of more than 10,000 Iraqis and 1,000 British soldiers.

I belive that Resistance is what caused the US Armed forces to start using just about EVERY Weapon in their arsenal.

Reports by the Washington Post suggest that US armed forces used white phosphorus grenades and/or artillery shells, creating walls of fire in the city. Doctors working inside Fallujah report seeing melted corpses of suspected insurgents. The use of WP ammunition was confirmed from various independent sources, including US troops who had suffered WP burns due to 'friendly fire'.

en.wikipedia.org...

About 7000 to 10000 of the roughly 50,000 buildings in the town are estimated to have been destroyed in the offensive.

For all those who don't belive - you are living in a World of Fantasy and in a World of Lies, that US Goverment is serving you, to protect their Brutality and their Illegal use of Banned weapons in the Battle of Fallujah.

[edit on 8/11/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
Fallujah is known for for the Resistance.

In the spring of 1920, the British, who had gained control of Iraq after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, sent Lt. Col. Gerard Leachman, a renowned explorer and a senior colonial officer, to quell a rebellion in Fallujah. Leachman was killed just south of the city in a fight with local leader Shaykh Dhari. The British sent an army to crush the rebellion, and the ensuing fight took the lives of more than 10,000 Iraqis and 1,000 British soldiers.

Hmm, seems they didn't learn their lesson the first time

Reports by the Washington Post suggest that US armed forces used white phosphorus grenades and/or artillery shells, creating walls of fire in the city. Doctors working inside Fallujah report seeing melted corpses of suspected insurgents. The use of WP ammunition was confirmed from various independent sources, including US troops who had suffered WP burns due to 'friendly fire'.

en.wikipedia.org...

LMAO, you should know that anyone can type something into Wikipedia , it's hardly what I'd call reliable.

Souljah don't you bother reading any of the posts here, DUH. The bodies weren't melted just in an advanced state of decompisition

For all those who don't belive - you are living in a World of Fantasy and in a World of Lies, that US Goverment is serving you, to protect their Brutality and their Illegal use of Banned weapons in the Battle of Fallujah.

ROFLMAO, I'm laughing so hard I can't type anymore, plaes use some facts sometime at least. Stop regurgitating BS and others opinions, can't youthink for yourself

I watched the entire video expecting to see more of a documentary-style presentation of factual evidence. What I saw was merely an assortment of video clips and photos wrapped up with a journalistic agenda.

IMO the bias meter went off the scale early on and just kept going.

I have to agree with jsobecky though....Cornelia keep your eyes and ears open and continue to seek the truth.... however this isn't the unbiased, factual piece of journalism it is presented to be.

Virtually all of the video clips and photos have been circulating the web for quite some time. IMO most were used in an out of context manner to further the intended agenda.

After completing this post, and prior to submission, I watched it again hoping to see something I might have missed the first time around.....nope!

Peace2All

[edit on 11/8/2005 by 12m8keall2c]

Some of people call it anti US propaganda - i call it war crimes and crimes against humanity. Here is a set of Fallujah body photos. Warning tho... pics are extreme. Hope all of u blind US "patriots" are realy proud on your troops and your president.

dahrjamailiraq.com... m28&page=1

I watched the video and I know they are trying to prove some point. That part of the video showed a gunship shooting some guys. I have seen the whole thing and they didn't show the part where they were asking for permision to nuralize the target. They didn't show the part where they guys talking and then one of them threw a gun on the side of the road. They didn't show any of that and that makes me believe that they were just showing the parts that would make the biggest impact on a selected portion of people. If they do it during one part of the video that what makes me want to believe the rest of the video. My room mate had the whole video, and if he still has it and someone can help me with posting it then I will post it here.

For me the whole thing lost credibilty because they tried to mislead me during one part. During the time it took me to write this my room mate got me the video so all I need is some help posting it.

G_o_l_d_y

Nice addition to the topic of this of this thread...NOT!

The gallery link you posted contains what are IMO visual representations of the atrocities of war. However, you seem to contend that they are evidence of [in your own words] "war crimes and crimes against humanity".

Another assortment of photos with attached "one-hit-wonder" by-lines that demonstrate nothing to support your claims of war crimes nor crimes against humanity.

STYKI<

Here's a link the the ENTIRE video used at the end of the movie.
link
Another fine example of taking things out of context in an attempt to support one's agenda. The use of the excerpt from this clip, as the closing scene, is further proof of using whatever means necessary to support their baseless claims.


[edit on 11/8/2005 by 12m8keall2c]

Hello Islamofascists,


Now your poorly manipulated propaganda isnt going to start a civil war in the western world just yet, keep trying though.

If you live by te sword, you die by the sword.

Originally posted by justyc
well, had you bothered to watch the video you
would already know that 'he' was a she

Typo. That's all.
Just got flying with the keys to make a point.

OK then.

The US did NOT use any Banned Weapons in Iraq.

Depleted Uranium is NOT Harmful to Human or the Enviroment.

Fallujah was a Conflict that followed all the Rule of Engagement.

US Goverment NEVER Lied about anything about the War in Iraq.

Happy?



[edit on 8/11/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by marg6043
Funny Iraq wasn't broken before US intervention,

Oh goodness marg...

Saddam was mass murdering Iraqis by the hundreds of thousands.
He was mass raping... mass torturing ... mass killing Kurds with WMD.
He was paying off the UN Security Council with billions in Oil money
that was supposed to be going to the Iraqis for food and medicines.
Saddam was breaking the UN resolutions DAILY - the no fly zones
were being flown in (which were there for the protection of the Kurds
and Iraqs neighbors), he was demanding that investigators give 2
days notice before 'surprise' inspections and demanding that no
air recon be done (so they could sneek the illegal stuff out before
the inspectors got there).... etc. etc. etc.

YES Iraq was broken before the US intervention.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
G_o_l_d_y

Nice addition to the topic of this of this thread...NOT!

The gallery link you posted contains what are IMO visual representations of the atrocities of war. However, you seem to contend that they are evidence of [in your own words] "war crimes and crimes against humanity".

Well i wont comment your post. All i can add is im absolutly sure u would explode if on those pics were dead US civilians.

NumberCruncher
First of all for the record im not a muslim. And second. Absolutly agree with u on "If you live by te sword, you die by the sword". Actualy this scares me a lot because with the amount of people pissed off on this globe on one side or the other i have a fealing things will become much worse for all.



[edit on 8-11-2005 by G_o_l_d_y]

theshroudofmemphis: Just bewcause a video shows images and claims stuff dosnt mean its true. You seems to be saying "sinc this is what the narrator claimed, it must be true!" There is ZERO evidence of the claims made on the video. ZERO!

Originally posted by jsobecky
Cornelia

You are probably sincere in your quest to get to the truth of this, and your horror is no doubt genuine.

I downloaded the 43.8Mbyte file and watched it, and have come to the conclusion that it is an average package of anti-American propaganda.

Apart from the technical arguments, two things capped it for me:

1.

this video is made by professional journalist of the italian public network, like the BBC.

And that's the problem. It just seemed too smooth, the scenes too staged for good light, with all the time in the world to shoot them. Not something I would have expected from Fallujah in the aftermath.

2. Why did they pick that final scene to wrap up the film? That scene has been around for a long time and as someone pointed out, inserting it here would imply that it is another example of American atrocities. Not true, if you saw the complete scene, and it was a totally rookie move to use it here.

Anyway, don't let our well-intended criticism stop you from seeking the truth.

Not to mention the clip that shows napalm being dropped is a 4 second clip that they just looped over and over. Oh no, there isnt any deception there!

Originally posted by Souljah
Fallujah is known for for the Resistance.

In the spring of 1920, the British, who had gained control of Iraq after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, sent Lt. Col. Gerard Leachman, a renowned explorer and a senior colonial officer, to quell a rebellion in Fallujah. Leachman was killed just south of the city in a fight with local leader Shaykh Dhari. The British sent an army to crush the rebellion, and the ensuing fight took the lives of more than 10,000 Iraqis and 1,000 British soldiers.

I belive that Resistance is what caused the US Armed forces to start using just about EVERY Weapon in their arsenal.

Reports by the Washington Post suggest that US armed forces used white phosphorus grenades and/or artillery shells, creating walls of fire in the city. Doctors working inside Fallujah report seeing melted corpses of suspected insurgents. The use of WP ammunition was confirmed from various independent sources, including US troops who had suffered WP burns due to 'friendly fire'.

en.wikipedia.org...

About 7000 to 10000 of the roughly 50,000 buildings in the town are estimated to have been destroyed in the offensive.

For all those who don't belive - you are living in a World of Fantasy and in a World of Lies, that US Goverment is serving you, to protect their Brutality and their Illegal use of Banned weapons in the Battle of Fallujah.

[edit on 8/11/05 by Souljah]

Wouldnt all the buildings being destroyed be evidence of a conventinal fight, rather then a chemical one?

edit: One more thing, Whats with all the pictures of dead bodies who allegedly surrendered, yet no explination that people who were surrendering would drop their flags and start shooting. Many soldiers were killed this way.

Originally posted by G_o_l_d_y
Some of people call it anti US propaganda - i call it war crimes and crimes against humanity. Here is a set of Fallujah body photos. Warning tho... pics are extreme. Hope all of u blind US "patriots" are realy proud on your troops and your president.

dahrjamailiraq.com... m28&page=1

How exactly do you know any of these were killed by marines? I'm sure some of them are, I'm just curious how you know the difference.

Also, you show these pictures as if there is something out of the ordinary with dead bodies after a battle in a war. This strikes me as pretty ignorent of what war is.

Well i wont comment your post. All i can add is im absolutly sure u would explode if on those pics were dead US civilians.

I would be sad for sure. Although if there were a war going on US soil it would be expected.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Dronetek]

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Dronetek]

by G_o_l_d_y:
Well i wont comment your post. All i can add is im absolutly sure u would explode if on those pics were dead US civilians.

For starters...you are absolutely wrong.

Secondly, your not absolutely sure of anything, you are ASSuming. Careful there...

Thirdly, there are many, many photos of US casualties all over the net. While I can't say I particularly enjoy looking at any such photos, I do see them for what they are... dead bodies.

Can you please drop the avatar or atleast post some specifics.

Could anyone please let me know what time this is being aired in Italy?

Do you think its something that will be reported on by other countries immediately? I usualy follow Sky and Fox news here in the UK, just wondered if it was worth keeping an eye out for on there?

Thanks,

CX.