Falluja WMD horror scoop aired tomorrow

This is only an observation on my part, not an argument for or against the film.

I noticed many of the bodies shown had maggots all over them (they are hard to see on some of the corpses due to the low resolution of the film). Maggots can only propagate on necrotic tissue. Also, there were MANY maggots and they were well developed (from the few close ups I could see). This implies that these were not fresh corpses.

I am of the opinion that some of these corpses were in an advanced state of decay. This could explain the "burnt" and "melted" state of the flesh.

Here's a link on the states of decay for reference:
Decomposition: Stages of Decomposition

Also, I used to work with White Phosphorus (WP) while I was in the military and the former Marine's description of it's effects was a misstatement, to say the least. WP will burn clothing just fine. The clouds left behind after burning WP are somewhat toxic, but they do not continue to burn people after they have burned once already. All WP needs to have to start ignition is oxygen. WP spontaneously ignites in the presence of oxygen.

Anyway, these are just my opinions...take them for what they are..

the "ak something" mentioned was mk77 (www.fas.org...) - which has the same effect as nepalm and contains white phosphorus.

if you had watched the film to the end you would have seen that the UK ministry of defence finally admitted to an ex-MP in a letter that the US had used mk77 in falujah.

can you see any reason why they would make that up?

[edit on 7-11-2005 by justyc]

Any of you happen to remember the kidnapping of a female Italian reporter some time ago?

She's also in this video shedding some light on what she was doing in Falujah and trows some doubt on who really kidnapped her.

This video is complete BS.

One of my favorite scenes is where he shows an obviously decaying body and says "the flesh has melted off" implying this was some kind of illegal American weapon, while ignoring the fact there are #ing maggots all over his face. Of course it makes perfect sense to assume his flesh was taken off by the Americans, rather than normal decay.

Who is to say these people weren’t killed by insurgents? Where is the propaganda video that digs deep into what these terrorists are doing? Hell, lets broadcast video of a live human who is having is head cut off with a dull knife by men chanting "Allah akbur"?

Originally posted by shire19

Originally posted by kozmo
NOBODY, citizens of the US included, strive for innocent people to die.

Then you dont know much about Mankind and its Human nature.

Anyway, I wouldnt put it past the US Gov't to do something like this, wheter it be for testing purposes or frustration to clear places quickly.
They did it in Vietnam, why not Iraq?

Oh yeah. It makes perfect sense to assume Americans over the men who openly slay innocent people by the hundreds so they can get into heaven.



[edit on 7-11-2005 by Dronetek]

This video is biased and very anti-American and anti-Bush. A lot of this video is pure hearsay and generalization. If you are going to believe everything this video says is the truth and not spun towards their agenda, then I am going to believe every the Centcom tells me is the truth.

One interesting thing was when the narrator said, “Is it true that you waited for the results of the elections for confirmation of victory for Bush (is the narrator suggesting that the American elections were fixed for Bush?) before bombing Falluja?

Jeff: I’m glad you brought this question up……We waited until after the election, we were told directly by the pentagon to wait until after the election before going into Falluja”

Common sense tells me if you are getting a new president then he may not do things the same way. He may want to handle Falluja differently. There is no point starting a major operation that may be cut short within a week’s time. That is a waste of resources and life. It just seems like that scene is trying to imply that the election was fixed and the military and Bush are in cahoots. Also, it seems like they are trying to lend credence to the theory that it didn’t matter who won the American election in the end because they are both Skull and Bonesmen and this is highlighted to me at least, when they point out that Kerry conceited right away but in 2000 it was a long drawn out process.

I'll just take this video for what it is.....someone trying to get me to believe their agenda with no hard evidence.



[edit on 7-11-2005 by itmg]

Originally posted by Cornelia
www.rainews24.rai.it...
This is a very serious message.
Cornelia

What you are refering to is MK77,

MK-77 is a napalm canister munition. The MK77 familiy is an evolution of the incendiary bombs M-47 and M-74, used during the conflict in Korea and the war in Vietnam,
Looking at the images of the corpses on the film, i must say are so shocking
and upsetting, there skin is burned, but there clothes are not, this definetly raises a lot of serious questions, are the U S and Britain Covering up the use of Napalm in Iraq?

Some twit on this post said that this film is just a propaganda stunt,
Deny Ignorance and see for yourself,

thanks for the info, plz keep us informed about the reaction of this Broadcast, thanks... ian

Looking at the images of the corpses on the film, i must say are so shocking and upsetting, there skin is burned, but there clothes are not, this definetly raises a lot of serious questions, are the U S and Britain Covering up the use of Napalm in Iraq?

I've never seen a case of someone being a victim of napalm and only having their skin burned, and their clothing remaining intact.

I ask, which is more believable:

1. The US has a new weapon that only burns flesh and leaves other items that are MUCH more flammable, intact.

2. The corpses are several days old, having been out in 120F heat, unprotected, and are now in an advanced state of decay?

Option 2 sounds much more realistic to me.

Again, this is my opinion. I have no facts other than the evidence provided in the film and my knowledge of corpse decay. There is no evidence in the film as to the time of death of the corpses. If these are fresh corpses, then I would be VERY curious as to what caused their state. But these could easily be corpses that had been around for a while, decaying in the hot Iraqi climate.

Also, why would the US/UK need to cover up the use of Napalm? Has it been outlawed? This is not a sarcastic remark, I honestly don't know the answer....

Edited to correct spelling and grammar

[edit on 7-11-2005 by BomSquad]

Originally posted by Dronetek
Oh yeah. It makes perfect sense to assume Americans over the men who openly slay innocent people by the hundreds so they can get into heaven.
[edit on 7-11-2005 by Dronetek]

Who says Im assuming Americans?

He said "NOBODY", talking about people in general.
And my post was regarding the US Gov't, not its people.
And they are perfectly capable of doing that.

Originally posted by BomSquad
Also, why would the US/UK need to cover up the use of Napalm? Has it been outlawed? This is not a sarcastic remark, I honestly don't know the answer....

Napalm is banned.
The use of white phosphorus is not banned.

Thank you, Umbrax, for your reply.

Do you know where I can find a reference to that ban? Is there a particular treaty or UN resolution that you know of?

Just looking to educate myself

Originally posted by iamian

Originally posted by Cornelia
www.rainews24.rai.it...
This is a very serious message.
Cornelia

What you are refering to is MK77,

MK-77 is a napalm canister munition. The MK77 familiy is an evolution of the incendiary bombs M-47 and M-74, used during the conflict in Korea and the war in Vietnam,
Looking at the images of the corpses on the film, i must say are so shocking
and upsetting, there skin is burned, but there clothes are not, this definetly raises a lot of serious questions, are the U S and Britain Covering up the use of Napalm in Iraq?

Some twit on this post said that this film is just a propaganda stunt,
Deny Ignorance and see for yourself,

thanks for the info, plz keep us informed about the reaction of this Broadcast, thanks... ian

Sir, how do you know those are burns and not normal decay? How do you know who even killed those people? You don’t, but you are not interested in facts here. You are only concerned with the seriousness of the charge and how it forms your myopic view of America.

Originally posted by BomSquad

Do you know where I can find a reference to that ban? Is there a particular treaty or UN resolution that you know of?

I got this from wikipedia

International law does not prohibit the use of napalm or other incendiaries against military targets[2], but use against civilian populations was banned by a United Nations convention in 1980 [3]. The United States did not sign the agreement, but claimed to have destroyed its napalm arsenal by 2001.

The United States had reportedly been using incendiaries in the 2003 invasion of Iraq [4]. In August 2003, the Pentagon confirmed the use of Mark 77 firebombs.

Last time I checked napalm and wp were not classified as WMD. As for the "burnt " flesh.....natural decay of the human body....napalm and /or wp cannot just burn flesh and not burn the cloths that cover the flesh.

Originally posted by justyc
can you see any reason why they would make that up?

1. $$$
2. Fame
3. Sympathy (ooooh, look at me, I was a bad guy and
now I'm a 'good guy'. Embrace me)
4. Pushing his own political ideologies - using false info
isn't anything new to politicians.
5. He wants to run for something and thinks he can
get the anti-American vote.
6. etc. etc. etc.

There are PLENTY of reasons to make up junk like this.
Ask Michael Moore. He owns Haliburton stock as
well as Boeing and the rest, and yet he makes and sells
movies calling those who own stock to be evil. Nothing
like playing both sides of the fence, eh?

The movie is junk. It's pure propaganda. The language
used shows it isn't objective news. The images used
could be ANYTHING from ANYWHERE. There is no proof
to back up this work of fiction. Biological/Chemical
detectors (NBC detectors) would have been going off
the charts in neighboring areas and countries. Residue
would be found on and in the ground. If this had actually
happened, it couldn't be hidden.

It didn't happen.





[edit on 11/7/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Umbrax
I got this from wikipedia

International law does not prohibit the use of napalm or other incendiaries against military targets[2], but use against civilian populations was banned by a United Nations convention in 1980 [3]. The United States did not sign the agreement, but claimed to have destroyed its napalm arsenal by 2001.

The United States had reportedly been using incendiaries in the 2003 invasion of Iraq [4]. In August 2003, the Pentagon confirmed the use of Mark 77 firebombs.

so there is no violation of ani law dat bans the use of napalm except not on civilians. since the insurgents dress in civilian clothing its a wonder why some are burned up and dink they are civilians wen they are not. wen the dead body with a weapon is next to it, wat do u dink insurgents do? they take the weapons and ammo and the rest of the body is left alone and figure he looks like an innocent bystander. but dats only if the insurgents decided to risk getting to the body.

Mod Edit: Fixed Quote Tag.

[edit on 7/11/2005 by Mirthful Me]

The only "WMD" that was used in Fallujah was the US Armed Forces.

The USA has no need for WMD's against insurgents and terrorists, regular old soldiers with normal kinetic type weapons were more than a match for the terrorists and their dope induced rampage.

Im sorry to burst the worlds Anti USA bubble, but America can easily defeat an enemy without resorting to such tactics, even though you dont want to believe that.

And Italian news sources arent biased....

What evidence do that offer that there was napalm and chemical weapons used?

The video is fascinating. Gory...but fascinating. I want to state up front that I'm against the war in Iraq. I also think there's plenty of real evidence that could be used, rather than what I saw in the video.
In my opinion, the "burned" bodies shown are simply corpses in an advanced state of decay. The maggots crawling on at least one of the corpses are between 2 and 4 days old, probably closer to 4 because they're not clustered together the way younger maggots cluster. If the maggots are 2-4 days old, the corpse is between 3 and 5 days old. (fly eggs hatch after 24 hours or so) A 3-5 day old corpse would exhibit bloating and/or wet spots where the fluids and gasses escaped (large wet spot seen on corpse in blue shirt or dress), black putrefication (purplish or greenish waxy looking skin), and lividity (shown on the ribcage of a corpse being turned, while the narrator was talking about burns).

I found it interesting that the narrator did not specify that the bodies being shown were burned. Only that bodies were burned, while the video showed corpses.

As for white phosphorus: White phosphorus is a yellow, waxy, translucent solid element that burns in air unless preserved in oil. Phosphorus can ignite spontaneously in air at temperatures higher than 34°C. When it ignites spontaneously in air, it is oxidized to phosphorous pentoside, which forms metaphosphoric and orthophosphoric acids with addition of water. (read: phosphoric acid)

I'm still looking for pictures of phosphorus burns, so that a comparison can be made.

Here's a link to a government notice seeking MK77 mod 5 firebombs:
www2.eps.gov...
So the US is still using them. *sigh*

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by justyc
can you see any reason why they would make that up?

1. $$$
2. Fame
3. Sympathy (ooooh, look at me, I was a bad guy and
now I'm a 'good guy'. Embrace me)
4. Pushing his own political ideologies - using false info
isn't anything new to politicians.
5. He wants to run for something and thinks he can
get the anti-American vote.
6. etc. etc. etc.

it didn't happen.

[edit on 11/7/2005 by FlyersFan]

well, had you bothered to watch the video you would already know that 'he' was a she who stood down as an mp because she would not support an illegal war and was investigating claims that nepalm had been used and persistantly enquired this till she got an answer from the mod many months afterwards.

i very much doubt that fame and money came into it - rather just the desire for the truth to be known and until an independant investigation of falujah happens then you cannot say it didnt.

btw, what is your stand on the whole iraq war thing anyway seeing as it now turns out it was all based on false information, which as you said, isnt anything new to politicians is it? i mean, if they said something was true and it wasnt, why would you jump to believe everything they say to you about falujah from then on? do you ever doubt that your government would lie to you? ever?

Originally posted by Dronetek
Sir, how do you know those are burns and not normal decay? How do you know who even killed those people? You don’t, but you are not interested in facts here. You are only concerned with the seriousness of the charge and how it forms your myopic view of America.

Hello Dronetek, Your right scientificly how could i possibly know, my view is only to discover the truth about what i've seen, i want answers and i'll take on board everything i'm reading on this thread, i only come to such a
myopic view simply because i have'nt seen the full picture yet, you must admit the video is disturbing and needs to been analized,
one other thing, why would you think my view of America is shortsighted?