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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The problem is not getting worse, it has always been here and, unfortunately, it a perspective that is in vogue, not only abroad, but also among too many Americans. Patriotism began to become unpopular during the sixties and while it has gained in acceptability in some quarters, it has never regained acceptability in the academy.
I will say this, however, about this board. Almost any negative generalization toward any group or entity, even written in jest or tongue-in-cheek, is likely to garner a warning, unless, of course, such a generalization is directed toward the USA. America bashing is considered fair game for intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals alike.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
5. I certainly don't hope Americans suffer, nor do I experience glee when disaster strikes. And while nobody deserves to be murdered, I think we need to look hard at our foreign policy as part of the reason other countries hate us.
It's like the woman who gets repeatedly raped and yet continues to walk, unarmed down the same alley every night. The rape is not her fault but she should reconsider her practices that bring about the same result. She has to be accountable at some point and so do we.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
First, other countries hate us because they choose to do so. Ultimately, you cannot control someone else's insides. You cannot make them love you. And it is sick to try to control their opinion of you. We are not entitled to their good will. I believe we are entitled to their respect, just as they are entitled to ours. But you cannot be healthy and live your life according to the opinions of others, who legitimately want other things that you do. It is only natural that different nations want different things.
Look again at your "rape" analogy. (one I find distasteful in the extreme.) Did you notice that in your whole paragraph you never once mentioned the victim's assailant. You talk about the victim's accountability, but never the criminal's. Why is that?
... yet when America is the victim, it's still responsible.
Do other peoples of the earth ever get to be scrutinized, or is that "only for the USA ???"
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
However, we share responsibility and accountability for how other countries feel about us.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Do other peoples of the earth ever get to be scrutinized, or is that "only for the USA ???"
This may sound crass, but that's not my concern. I really don't care.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Again, there's the root of the difference between you and I. I don't make myself responsible for other people's feelings. If you choose to be unhappy, there's fundamentally nothing I can do to cheer you up. You may not be responsible for your outside environment. But you ARE responsible for your own insides. Whether your life is a joyride or a crushing humiliation is entirely up to you, and how you choose to feel. I am not responsible for your mood. Nor am I responsible for the moods of people I've never even met.
Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
The personification of "countries" and the application of a label to a person based on all stereotypes associated with their accidental country of birth or residence should actually be well beneath thinking ATS members.
Perhaps it's better to argue from a set of principles than along useless national boundaries, but not everyone wants to join in that kind of discussion. That's the world as we know it.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Again, there's the root of the difference between you and I. I don't make myself responsible for other people's feelings.
In other words, Afghanistan or Iran can do whatever it wants, and you aren't interested in holding them accountable?????
Originally posted by dgtempe
I dont even know why we have to take this this far.....
An Anti-American= Hates Americans
Anti Government,=Would be anti- Bush and Company and not NOT AntiAmericans.
Originally posted by billybob
believing this requires a great deal of faith.
speaking of leaping, HOLY LEAPING LOGIC! 'conspiracy' is a 'dirty' word, so america the clean is sullied by the very existence of said word?
(p.s. when you say america dominates everything important, then you must realise the inherent responsibility for the state of the world.
and in a marvel of reasoning, you say that a lot of people here dislike the us because of it's unpopular war......most these people are AMERICANS, and not liking a war or your current government does not equal 'dislike' of the US. try not to contradict yourself within one paragraph. it'll make you popular at parties, and you can impress freinds and relatives.)
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Look again at your "rape" analogy. (one I find distasteful in the extreme.) Did you notice that in your whole paragraph you never once mentioned the victim's assailant. You talk about the victim's accountability, but never the criminal's. Why is that?
I was shocked, partly because conservatives are always being accused of "blaming the victim." Yet somehow, when the victim is America (or a rape victim, apparently), the actions of the perpetrator are irrelevant compared to the victim's accountability.
So what is the difference between accountability and guilt?
Apparently, if America is the assailant, it's guilty; yet when America is the victim, it's still responsible.
Do other peoples of the earth ever get to be scrutinized, or is that "only for the USA ???"
My very first definition of "anti-American" was holding America to a different standard than that to which you hold other nations. I stand by that as the most telling test of your sentiments.
[edit on 21-9-2005 by dr_strangecraft]
Originally posted by nightwing
Netchicken, the evidence to answer your question is right before your eyes.
Look at the forum page, and I call your attention to the Katrina Conspiracies Discussion.
Describe the little icon representing this forum. Yeah, the inverted "Ol Glory". Cute it
AINT. I would expect this from a terrorist be-header maybe, but not ATS. Name me ONE
country in the world who has EVER insulted America by displaying our Flag in this manner.
There, my friend, is the physical evidence that there is anti-American sentiment growing ON THE BOARD.
Originally posted by nightwing
But what about indirect attacks, or the subtle ones. They always start with "We support the
troops BUT we are against the war." Or my personal favorite, "I love my country BUT..."