Thank you America. The gauntlet has been thrown down!

Well well well, looks like the courts have finally screwed us. by commanding the order to remove the 10 Commandments from the court in Alabama. and how ironic that it was physically removed on the day that mars was closest to earth. This link describes more of my thinking although it is not my own writing. Mars, the courts, the 10 Commandments, and the removal of the Wall.

I agree, this is very symbolic. America turned its back on God a long time ago, and this decision just made it official.

Two-Ton Ten Commandments Monument Removed From Display At Alabama Judicial Building

Complying with a federal court order, Alabama officials this morning removed a two-ton Ten Commandments monument from public display in the Judicial Building in Montgomery (8/27/03).

www.au.org...

(AU = Americans United for Separation Of Church And State).

That site is not an expression of my views, either. Although there are regularly people trying to get me to donate to the movement.

The site has good, concise daily reports leading into this landmark decision. And you know what side they're coming from!

All I can say is that its a good thing the founding fathers were a lot smarter than most of you....

You can keep your slaves religion.

[Everything is permissable]

Don't misunderstand the meaning of what I'm about to say, but I don't really understand why the 10 Commandments were up in a Court House to begin with. The idea of our legal system is not supposed to follow any Religion or it's teachings. A court house shouldn't have the rules of any religious following because that would give the impression that it was not impartial to those on trial. What if someone was a Hindu or Muslim or whatever and on trial in that courthouse, would their religious belief be held against them??

Understand I'm not saying anything anti-christian here....Just trying to point out that the Laws of our Society shouldn't be intermixed with Spiritual Laws. Especially in a country that was supposed to support the protection for anyone to follow any religion of their choosing, which can only be done by separating church from state policy.

What they can do is keep the ten commandments up. Next to them put up the Buddhist 8 fold path to enlightenment, then the 4 truths of wiccadom...the laws and commandments of satanists...Jewish laws...laws of the navajo indian...Eskimo commandments....free thinking laws of athiests...
Put them all up so its equal. Hindus, muslims, siths, wizards and christians. PUT EM ALL UP!!!
Then you'll see the true spirit of those praying in front of the court!!!
Its not about religious freedom to them..its about THEIR freedom to prostiletize to others with the Judeo-Christian bullsh*t. Their dogmatic religion cannot be placed on equal footings with others..it is always above others apriori in their mind. Jesus is THE way..not A way.
Thats what the fight is about...its what the fight is about anywhere similar sh*t like this comes up. Gay's getting married is a legal issue and should have all the rights afforded the LEGAL union under the law, but THERE religion says its a sin and thats what everyone has to believe.
"One nation under god" must always be in the pledge of allegiance and it must always reference the judeo christian god. It doesn't say judeo christian god, but trust em...thats who it meant. And player in schools...do you think they would stand arm in arm to protect the rights of satanist to wear their religious paraphanalia? Or protect their right to pray openly during lunch..or have their after school meetings on school property. Do you honestly believe that these christian slaves would support the ACLU when they stand up for Muslims and hindus and shintos trying to get their literature and beliefs into ANY aspect of mainstream america. Do you believe that the Satanists for wayward teenage girls will receive any FAITH-BASED money from the governmet???!!
Why not??? Thats the equality built into the constitution. Thats the facade argument behind the television interviews in Alabama.
Hypocrits to the highest....may they be damned for a dog.

[You are all absolutely free]

They should be removed.

Church and State seperate please.


I wouldn't want some other religions "holy" laws there either.

gee let's all argue about weather it's ok to have a monument to moral values in a public place.

Isn't it funny that a lot of our laws come straight from the Ten Commandments? I could go on about morality and the law and a functioning society but I won't, you should be smart enough to put 2 and 2 together. Strange how we have a system of law and justice which pretty much comes straight from God, eh?

Sidenote: Fury, nice avatar, Christopher Walken rules.

Originally posted by SandMan
Isn't it funny that a lot of our laws come straight from the Ten Commandments?...

Simple version of the 10 Commandments:
1. You shall have no other gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord�s Day.
4. Honour your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
9. You shall not covet your neighbour�s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbour�s goods.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "a lot" of our laws come from the 10 Commandments. 1-4 have no equal to any law. 5 certainly has it's equal within law. 6 does have laws pertaining to it as far as divorce and/or other legalities, but isn't an offence you are arrested for. 7 also has it's obvious equal within law. 8 could be considered a law like "defemation of character" or "slander" but exposing and/or broadcasting others faults, true or not, is the past time event for most people nowadays. 9-10 certainly are not a law, in fact wanting as much and more along with better than your neighbor seems to be the capitalist motto and reason for doing anything.

So, I would hardly say "a lot" when comparing the 10 commandments with the Legal system. That doesn't mean that those aren't 10 very good things to live by, but they don't belong in a court house. Now if you want to put up pictures or monuments of the actual Laws then that would be appropriate.

Let me also say that our Legal system is a complete joke though too. The whole outcry that has surrouned this event is in my opinion just a distraction to keep us busy so we don't complain about how screwed up the system is. I will openly testify that out of any of the problems within our Court Houses or Legal System the 10 Commandments issue was way down on my list, but I'm just taking this one peticular topic at hand. I don't support the anti-christian political movements or any such movements either spiritual or governmental and am also not trying to offend anyone's belief's.

All I can say is that its a good thing the founding fathers were a lot smarter than most of you....

You can keep your slaves religion.

I second that...

Of course, though, our legal system, unlike many other areas of government, is very intertwined with religion (i.e. just look at swearing in....) I could care less about the ten commandments being there, but I'd rather see God taken out of the lawbooks... So, if I don't believe in God, and swear on a Bible, can I lie my ass off?

lol... no 9 is just great

"You shall not covet your neighbour�s wife"

That is the modified ten commandments,the roman catholic church changed them way back when to suit their purposes for whatever reason,good article about this here:
www.cuttingedge.org...
Heading->How Roman catholic Church Secretly Changed Biblical Ten Commandments<
Amazing how much more it said the first time.....

And for those of you who "think" you know what is meant by separation of church and state,prepare to hear the truth,the government is not supposed to have the power to have those commandments removed,the government is out of control here IMHO.
Here is an article on this constitution thing that everybody so whole heartedly mis-understands:Same link as above,but under the heading;
>On the establishment of religion:What the constitution really says<

Oh,and I would suggest that more people actually read the constitution,get familiar with it,because most of what this government passes off as lawful for itself to do is not,I could go on about this,but no one will do anything that they do not feel like doing.
One question,do you want to remain free?,your freedom is almost gone.

I wonder if you all would be so up in arms if it were some Muslim or Jewish commandments? In fact, I bet you'd be rioting for its removal, claiming separation of church and state.

That's why the 10 Commnadments was removed.

[Edited on 28-8-2003 by Colonel]

Originally posted by SandMan
Isn't it funny that a lot of our laws come straight from the Ten Commandments?

Actually, almost none of them do.

I Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(not in any laws. In fact, we say "you can be any religion you like.")

II Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
(no law in America forbids this)

III Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
(no law in America forbids this)

IV Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(no law in America or in the constitution insists that you MUST WORSHIP on whatever you deem is the Sabbath. There has never been anything in the constitution or Bill of Rights about this.)

V Honour thy father and thy mother.
(nothing in the constitution, etc. No law or fines for saying that your parents are awful and for moving out or defying them.)

VI Thou shalt not murder.
(this is a law common to every civilziation)

VII Thou shalt not commit adultery.
(this is a law common to many civilziations)

VIII Thou shalt not steal.
(this is a law common to every civilziation)

IX Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
(this is a law common to every civilziation)

X Thou shalt not covet.
(the US doesn't have a "thought police" and there's no law in any country against WANTING something.)

So there's no unique law that was found ONLY in the commandments that is in our Constitution.


Most of our laws originate with the Code of Hammurabi: eawc.evansville.edu...

Their successor was the Roman law system, which formed the basis of the surviving legal system in England.

Major changes were made by the Magna Carta and our laws and so forth are based on English law www.yale.edu...

That's the genaeology of our legal system -- and if you go through the Bible, you'll find that the laws in it (beyond the 10 commandments) have little to do with our laws (we don't allow selling our children into slavery, whereas the Bible has a chapter or so on how to sell your daughter as a slave or concubine.)

There is supposed to be no involvement by the government in religious matters as far as making legal decisions to remove or allow them to be displayed.
I see nothing wrong with displaying MORALS in a public place,more than anything else,this represents the MORAL collapse of the US than anything else.
Most religions run by a set of "guidelines" that are similar to one another anyway.
Everyone is allowed to practice their religion however they want,so long as it does no one harm.
How is it that these commandments were allowed to be displayed at all,since the constitution supposedly said that they shouldn't be displayed?,because it didn't say that,and still doesn't!,it would seem to me that someone just decided to enforce their own interpretation on others,the interpretation is not open to enterpretation,although most legal officials would have you believe otherwise.
The constitution is written in simple language
No one seems to think for themselves any more here.
What was legal yesterday is not legal today,WRONG.

The First Amendment:
Congress shall make
no law respecting the
establishment of religion.

_that's pretty clear now,isn't it_
sounds like they broke their own law to me,but then it could be the first step toward telling us that the constitution has been nullified too,which it has,it's gone.....

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
The First Amendment:
Congress shall make
no law respecting the
establishment of religion.

Which means that the gov. shall not promote or show preference of one religon over another which it is clearly doing here, hence that's why I said that the people in Alabama would be upset if Muslim or Jewish tenets were displayed as opposed to the 10 commnadments.

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
That is the modified ten commandments,the roman catholic church changed them way back when to suit their purposes for whatever reason,good article about this here:
www.cuttingedge.org...

Ok, well I think you understand what I was getting at. Even including the versions the Catholic's (or Others) haven't tampered with you're still looking at 50% at best. Personally I'm even more confused to what they are after reading that link though...It's no wonder Religious Groups are always fighting with each other since the "Truth" they all follow has been doctored so many times throughout history not even they can agree on what it is they are following.

I will agree with in part way that The Government Power being used to remove those Commandments is out of control, except for the fact that they shouldn't have been in that specific building to begin with. Nor should any scriptures or religious doctrines. It is a court of law, not a museum of history, an art gallery, or church, or school. If there is to be anything written or posted anywhere it should only be the actual Laws it's enforcing written in the language of Law. A Court of Law should represent an unbiased, impartial, workplace belonging equally to all American people aside from there Religious Beliefs.

Originally posted by Colonel
I wonder if you all would be so up in arms if it were some Muslim or Jewish commandments? In fact, I bet you'd be rioting for its removal, claiming separation of church and state.

That's why the 10 Commnadments was removed.

If it were Muslim, Jewish, etc. it would still be up. We live in a country that is scared to death about pissing off a minority.


_____________________________________________
Be Cool
K_OS

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
I see nothing wrong with displaying MORALS in a public place,

Whose morals? I submit to you that the Buddhists are far more moral than the Christians ( The moral code within Buddhism: not to take the life of anything living, not to take anything not freely given, to abstain from sexual misconduct and sensual overindulgence, to refrain from untrue speech, and to avoid intoxication, that is, losing mindfulness. This, of course, means that Buddhists don't kill or harm anyone for being the "wrong religion" and are a bit more gentle with the earth. )

more than anything else,this represents the MORAL collapse of the US than anything else.
Most religions run by a set of "guidelines" that are similar to one another anyway.
Everyone is allowed to practice their religion however they want,so long as it does no one harm.

Just try to be Wiccan here in the Bible Belt. You get your tires slashed (yes, even in 2003) and other fun things.

How is it that these commandments were allowed to be displayed at all,since the constitution supposedly said that they shouldn't be displayed?

That was Judge Moore, who declared that there was a higher law than the US law. Now, while you might think this was dandy -- suppose Moore had been Muslim and declared there are higher (Muslim) laws than the US law.

Quite frankly, Biblical law isn't fair to a lot of people ("thou shalt not suffer a witch to live...")

The First Amendment:
Congress shall make
no law respecting the
establishment of religion.

_that's pretty clear now,isn't it_

Yes, and it ALSO means that "you can't set any religion's laws or principles above that of the laws of the United States." Moore wanted to run his court under Biblical law -- so to keep "separation of church and state" we either have to have courts run under the various Muslim laws (including Shiara, which says you stone to death any woman you THINK has committed adultery) and courts running under Buddhist laws and courts running under Satanist laws (everyone wants to change venues to the Satanist courts!) and courts running under Wiccan laws and Druidic laws and Nordic laws and Voodoo laws... and so on and so forth.

"Religion" doesn't mean "mainstream Christianity."