And the truth shall set you free! (The End)

Originally posted by The Axeman
Ludacris???

I'm sure the word you were looking for is ludicrous. Ludicrous.

You still didn't answer the question. Who pays the nice fireman that comes to get your kitty out of the tree?

[edit on 8/22/05 by The Axeman]

hehe yes, Lud-i-crous

Who pays the Firemen? Well, obviously, AT THIS MOMENT WE DO.

The point I'm making is, it SHOULDN'T be that way.

It's just wrong to pay someone to save someone's life, or save anything else frankly.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
How else? Well, look, I don't hold a degree in politics, all I know is the Income Tax is 100% Fraud, and the american people better start thinking of a new way of running things. Because if I remember correctly, WE have the power.

100% fraud? You're saying that it isn't OBVIOUS to you that tax money is indeed being used for the people. I'm not saying that's all it's being used for, but it's obviously being used to provide many things for us.

What Laws are being passed at this moment that are doing any good for this country?!

How is our Military at this moment defending us?! From what enemy?! (Hint: 9/11)

Are you saying that we have to PAY people to SAVE US?

Please, just saying that outloud is ludacris.

I did not say ANY of those things. It's unbelievable how much you like putting words in my mouth! I will not tell you again: stop it.

All I am simply saying is that without tax money, we would have NONE of those things that I pointed out. Would that be acceptable to you?

Who pays the Firemen? Well, obviously, AT THIS MOMENT WE DO.

The point I'm making is, it SHOULDN'T be that way.

It's just wrong to pay someone to save someone's life, or save anything else frankly.

So who should pay for this? Who should pay to have firemen on duty 24 hours/day and helping us when we are in distress?


[edit on 22-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I simply asked you how else you expect our country to run.

It seems to me that the tax system is a tool to keep the public in line rather than being a method of collecting funds to run the government. The government prints the money, so it can print what it needs to run the government without the need for the IRS bureaucracy to collect money from individual citizens. Obviously the amount of money the government prints would impact the value of the currency (inflation/deflation), so the monetary supply would need to be managed. But the government is already managing the money supply any ways, so it is not like eliminating the IRS would create an added burden.
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[edit on 22-8-2005 by df1]

[edit on 22-8-2005 by df1]

Originally posted by df1
The government prints the money, so it can print what it needs to run the government without the need for the IRS bureaucracy to collect money from individual citizens.

I hope you're kidding about this. High school economics should have taught you why this can't work.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I hope you're kidding about this. High school economics should have taught you why this can't work.

Why don't you explain to me why it is not reasonable to manage the currency at the printing press, I must've missed school that day.
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Originally posted by df1
Why don't you explain to me why it is not reasonable to manage the currency at the printing press, I must've missed school that day.

Ummm, because legal tender (printed money) must be backed by real monetary value. If it isn't, it's not worth anything but the paper its printed on.

That's why money was backed by Gold, and now by the growth of the economy. Without real value to sustain it, money cannot be printed. It would render the dollar completely worthless.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by df1
Why don't you explain to me why it is not reasonable to manage the currency at the printing press, I must've missed school that day.

Ummm, because legal tender (printed money) must be backed by real monetary value. If it isn't, it's not worth anything but the paper its printed on.

Our money isnt worth any more than the paper it is printed on, since the gold standard was abolished. Show me one law or one regulation that says the money must be backed by real monetary value. When your done with that show me the law or regulation that defines the rules for determining that monetary value.
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Originally posted by df1
Our money isnt worth any more than the paper it is printed on, since the gold standard was abolished. Show me one law or one regulation that says the money must be backed by real monetary value. When your done with that show me the law or regulation that defines the rules for determining that monetary value.

What are you trying to say? Do you seriously believe that money can simply be printed and given a value without concern of backup? Instead of Gold, money is now backed up by the growth of the economy. But it's backed up by something. Simply printing money would mean that our currency is based on absolutely nothing.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by df1
Our money isnt worth any more than the paper it is printed on, since the gold standard was abolished. Show me one law or one regulation that says the money must be backed by real monetary value. When your done with that show me the law or regulation that defines the rules for determining that monetary value.

What are you trying to say? Do you seriously believe that money can simply be printed and given a value without concern of backup? Instead of Gold, money is now backed up by the growth of the economy. But it's backed up by something. Simply printing money would mean that our currency is based on absolutely nothing.

Money Has No Value

Money is an Illusion

More quotes from prominent people on the banking system

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Simply printing money would mean that our currency is based on absolutely nothing.

That was the problem with Confederate money. It had nothing to back up its value. Eventually, if you went into a bakery and handed the guy at the counter a Confederate bill, he'd just place the bill over the bread and cut you a piece the same size. The bill had no instrinsic value.

Income tax is an important concept. Certainly, a lot of our tax money is wasted, but even that's at least partially our fault (after all, it was us who elected the doofuses into office who waste our money). But our income tax is also what pays for us to have police, fireman, public libraries, public schools, public highways, etc.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Income tax is an important concept.

IMHO its only importance is to chain individuals to a control process and to provide a system for political theft of the money. In terms of funding government, how is a trillion dollars created via the printing press any more or less valuable than a trillion collected from individuals through income taxation. As it stands, money is worth nothing except what the government says its worth. I disagree that our economic system is an illusion, it is pure and simple a conspiratorial defrauding of the public. And Masons are not to blame, they are being screwed just like everyone else.
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[edit on 22-8-2005 by df1]

Keep it real I would like to debate this, there is CLEAR symbolism in the five pointed star, and I don’t think it has anything to do with real stars!

actually you are quite mistaken. The pentagram has a deal to do with "real
stars". actually one atleast Venus. Ok its a Planet , but astral never the less.

Nice try Stalkingwolf!

I said star! As in STAR, as in lots of gasses being burned! So yes the five pointed star represents VENUS, i.e. Lucifer the morning lord right?

Although appreciate the HIJACK! Ill ad to this!

DF you amaze me! I commend you, I can back up what you say, HEAR HEAR!

Today’s money have no value, the only have value because we say it does! Why do you even collect income tax from people with low income? There is no reason to do that! No corporations should pay all taxes not the citizen! America has the biggest difference between POOR and RICH, why is that says I?

To sebatwerk, you must me disinformation incarnate!

Ill do it easy for you then!

Free Masons know that real information "can't" be known! If real information could be had by every one, it would immediately become worthless. Information, by its very definition, implies IGNORANCE and EXCLUSIVITY. They require ignorance in order to be informed

*******36*******
******3435******

*****313233*****
****27282930****
***2223242526***
**161718192021**
*09101112131415*
0102030405060708

they worship a God called the great architect of the universe, this is very close to the name the great architect used in Egypt as a name for their pharaohs. Also their prophet or savior named Solomon, is actually only one word repeated three times, Sol = sun, Om = Sun and On = sun

The Hyksos King David aka. Psusennes II father of Solomon aka Sheshonq I

Lets just start with this! Shall we! And isn’t me reposting old quotes a waste of bandwith! I gave you multible options didn’t say that you should answer all of them!


Oh and a personal question!

GOATU = Smitty
He’s going to get the goat
You are going to ride the goat
Look out for the goat

Comments please! perhaps i could even say TGOATU = T GOAT U = The Goat You?

[edit on 22-8-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by df1

IMHO its only importance is to chain individuals to a control process and to provide a system for political theft of the money.

I do not see how income tax equates to theft. Do we use public highways and roads? Public schools? Libraries? Fire and police departments? I may not physically look like a hippie anymore, but am still one on the inside, and as such, have an inherent distrust of capitalism. I don't want to pay tolls on privately owned roads every time I have to make a turn, I don't want to pay rental fees on library books, and if my house is on fire, I don't want the firemen to refuse to come until they spend 30 minutes running a credit check.

In terms of funding government, how is a trillion dollars created via the printing press any more or less valuable than a trillion collected from individuals through income taxation.

Printing a trillion dollars and adding them to the system would simply decrease the value of the dollar by the same percentage. As mentioned above, money itself is only paper and is worthless; it must be backed by some other security to add value. Therefore printing and pumping money into the system would do nothing but split the dollar value, and wouldn't change anything. It may increase a persons wages, for example, but it would increase the price of everything at the supermarket by the very same percentage.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
DF you amaze me! I commend you, I can back up what you say, HEAR HEAR!

Today’s money have no value, the only have value because we say it does! Why do you even collect income tax from people with low income? There is no reason to do that! No corporations should pay all taxes not the citizen! America has the biggest difference between POOR and RICH, why is that says I?

Nothing I have stated is amazing, all one needs to do is follow the money to identify the soulless demons that suck the life forces out of every individual. And the link in my signature line clearly identifies these demons, as well as the necessary remedies to exorcize these demons from U.S. society. However nobody is interested, it is much easier for people to blame Icke's reptiles, their secret society of choice or some other mythical force rather than confronting these very real soulless corporate demons. The reason people do not act against these demons is that they are kept in fear of change by the threat of losing what they already have.
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by df1

IMHO its only importance is to chain individuals to a control process and to provide a system for political theft of the money.

Printing a trillion dollars and adding them to the system would simply decrease the value of the dollar by the same percentage.

You act as if this printing of money isnt already happening, the presses are running full tilt to fund the Iraq war as we speak. This war is certainly not being funded by the collection of taxes.
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[edit on 22-8-2005 by df1]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Today’s money have no value, the only have value because we say it does! Why do you even collect income tax from people with low income? There is no reason to do that! No corporations should pay all taxes not the citizen! America has the biggest difference between POOR and RICH, why is that says I?

Even if money were still tied to the gold standard, the value of the money would only be the value that we assign to the gold. If gold were not shiny, uniquely coloured, and easy to hande would it be so valuable. Why not tie money to the iron standard, or why not the mud standard. Gold has no intrinsic value. I personally do not find it very attractive. By tieing currency to the gold standard you place the control of the economoy into the hands of the gold producers. If you tie the currency to the economy of a country then it will be controlled by those who are part of the economy (everyone) and by the bankers. No matter what what you tie the currency to control of the economoy will invariably fall into the hands of the bankers, or those that deal in the commodity to which the currency is based.

If only corporations were taxed who would stump the bill? - Everyone as the cost of the taxes would be placed back into the cost of the products that we all have to buy, unless you are self-sufficient and live on a farm in the countryside.

Everyone should pay tax, even if it is only 1%, as everyone has to see that we are all part of the same economy, and having people who can freeload would create a bad attitude. I don't think the poorest classes should be chjarged that much income tax, but they must be charged some tax. What the rich classes should pay in income tax is a political/economic qeustion, and this is not the right place for that debate.

America has one of the biggest gaps between rich and poor due to the large level of social and economic mobility. That is to say that America is mainly a meritocracy, and if you are good at something you can go places. This is in stark contrast to many other countries where it is far more a case of where you are from, who you know etc etc, than whether you are actually good at your job. High social mobility is surely the American Dream crystallised.

Added to this is the fact that to make money you must have money to start with. So the rich get richer, this is generally always the case, those of the poor who become rich leave their previous backgrounds behind very rapidly and move on. This does indeed lead to a greater polarisation of social wealth, but surely this system is better than the dreaded communist one where everyone is equal?

I dunno - you pays your money, you make your choices. If you are really not happy with it all do sometihng about. Change where you live, or move on.

Originally posted by 23spy
Change where you live, or move on.

The multinational corporations control the globe, so exactly where do I move? How about we fix the problems or are you too afraid of losing what you already have?
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[edit on 22-8-2005 by df1]

If it is reallly that bad you could try to buy your own country, but then you would have to use money to buy it.

Another option is to go and be self-sufficient in the jungle - grow your own produce etc etc. But you would have to make sure that you do not fall sick as then you might have to rely on pharmaceutical companies for your medication.

Also you could found or find a community which uses a bartering system thereby bypassing the use of money. I have read of these systems before. They all revolve around the use of social credit. You do a plumbing job for your neighbour for example. He gives you a note which you then exchange with another for a service that he provides for you. Basically it is the same as money but it is not subject to inflation, which is the real problem with money, paper money in particular

Money is here to stay. We cannot really go without it as a form of social credit. The key thing is not to let it stagnate. Money must always flow, if not the economy suffers.

It is really a case of like it or lump it. I personally cannot think of a system that could replace money that is not just a form of money in a different name or form.

Mankind has progressed too far from its original tribe like 'dreaming' state to survive without a form of measuring social credit. It would take an end of the world type disaster/scenario to stop money existing.

ps I have thought of another way to survive without money - join a monastic order be it catholic or bhuddist. You will not be allowed any moeny and everything will be provided for you.

I hope this helps

join a monastic order be it catholic or bhuddist. You will not be allowed any moeny and everything will be provided for you.

No That doesn't work either, you have to be in constant search for donations. And donations are funds too. Death and Taxes, we can't escape.

lost in the midwest