And the truth shall set you free! (The End)

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
What’s my take? Well some one in here would perhaps say that I am the right hand of David Icky the Messiah! Others might say that I go to bed with the reptilian overlords a.k.a. the “chrome existent aluminized free masonry”!

I see a connection in the symbolism! That’s all.
And I would like some comments on that, from people in here!

My personal theory has something to do with the control and manipulation of the masses! And I see any “isme” and government as a tool for this! These governments have sub-tools we could call them religion, education and society! Etc.
I also see Free Masonry as a tool for this goal! But they are in no way in control! They are themselves being controlled, and in a very effective way!
Read in my first post what I say about the sheep pen!

Thank you for adding to this thread!

Well, I completely agree

Originally posted by eudaimonia
I see a masonic influence in all of them, quite frankly.

Of course you do, you're LOOKING for things like that. Someone like you will see masonic influence in ANYTHING. It's like staring at clouds and seeing the shape of your dog. Get over it.

So Sebatwerk!

There are no connections in the pictures?
And the connection has absolutely nothing to do with masonry?

Oh and never get the clouds thingy! I stare at the clouds and I never see anything? Must be my IgnoranceHelmet! I could try and take it off!

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
So Sebatwerk!

There are no connections in the pictures?
And the connection has absolutely nothing to do with masonry?

Some of the images have absolutely no connection to Freemasonry, others do intentionally. It's obvious he posted images which HE THOUGHT had a connection to Freemasonry (although sometimes incorrectly).

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Oh and never get the clouds thingy! I stare at the clouds and I never see anything? Must be my IgnoranceHelmet! I could try and take it off!

Switch it out for a tin-foil hat... I hear they work great.

Seriously though, alot of those pictures have ambiguous symbols in them; I mean, Masonry doesn't have copyright or monopoly on any of their symbols, and some of them are used quite often in other applications.

I think what Seb means is that sometimes you see what you want to see, that's all. If you are [i[looking for a connection hard enough, sometimes you will see it when it's not there, or in this case, when it is dubious at best.

[edit on 8/12/05 by The Axeman]

ummmm neon helmet, Diplomatic Immunity only works if you are granted it by your government, and the governing body of which you are traveling to agrees to honor that grant. it doesnt work for internet posts, and cant be giving by anyone except by, like i said, The governing body in which you live....AND is only granted to dignitary's and special police forces, and protective agency's such as the secret service....i know because i BELONG to one of those agency's. your claims of diplomatic immunity is sheer BS.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
I see a masonic influence in all of them, quite frankly.

Oh GAWD, of course you do because your "agenda" won't permit you to see the obvious.

A. Stars, stars, so many stars! FYI: Look up. They're everywhere. Did MASONS put them there to prove their influence in everything? No.

B. The eye. Ooooh. Started with the Egyptians, but other traditions have references to the "singular eye" concept as well, ones that are pretty far removed from Masonry, in my opinion. David from the Old Testament sent a rock through the eye of some cyclopean giant, if I remember correctly. The Norse god Odin only had one eye. The Graiae of Greek mythology only had one eye between them which they traded back and forth. Hardly Masonic.

C. Thirteen is a Baker's Dozen. Are cookies evil too now, as the number is obviously symbolic of those gosh-darned Masons? Give me a break. Seven is so overused it's downright sickening, as it generally stems from when it was commonly held that there were seven planets, seven veils, seven deadly sins, seven seas, seven wonders of the world, etc. Nothing to do with Masonry at all. Nine? Nine is a perfect square, isn't it? Important long before the Brothers got a hold of it. This number thing is ridiculous anyway. I have heard every number up to a hundred associated in some way with Masonry, and it's just plain stupid. "Three is a mockery of the trinity; is a symbol of the pyramid; is a symbol of being trapped in the third dimesion..." and "Four is a symbol of the square, which has four sides; is a symbol of the fourth dimension, where the reptiles rule; is a symbol of the Four Horseman of the Apocolyse (which everyone says the Masons are sponsoring anyway!); is a symbol of the cubist matrix we are all trapped in;..." I mean, come on, it's gets really old after a while, all this nonsense over seeing so called Masonic numerology hidden in everything. Some people need to get a life.

D. Eagles. Talk to a Native American about eagle symbolism. NOT Masonic. In fact, do yourself a favor and look into the old "the serpent vs. the eagle" symbolism among ancient MesoAmericans. The two generally don't like each other. So which is it? Eagle-promoting Masons or Reptilian Masons? Nature says you can't have both. Unless you're Quetzalcoatl, because then you could be the "feathered serpent", which is interesting in itself. But he's not a Mason, either.

E. Fasces? Originated in Roman times as a symbol of power and authority. Has been co-opted by countless political movements which had nothing to do with Masonry.

On a planet where humans tend to learn from one another (look up cultural diffusion) and occasionally rip off each other's ideas (as there are only so many original ideas to begin with and we all circulate them in the cosmic soup of the Collective Unconscious), sharing symbols among groups is not that uncommon. It's a consequence of social interaction and occurs naturally, without the necessity of a flippin' conspiracy.

You people really need to get out more and quit reading into everything.

Originally posted by Stegosaur
Oh GAWD, of course you do because your "agenda" won't permit you to see the obvious.

Please, tell me what my agenda is. I'd like to know!

A. Stars, stars, so many stars! FYI: Look up. They're everywhere. Did MASONS put them there to prove their influence in everything? No.

I never said that stars had masonic influence.

B. The eye. Ooooh. Started with the Egyptians, but other traditions have references to the "singular eye" concept as well, ones that are pretty far removed from Masonry, in my opinion. David from the Old Testament sent a rock through the eye of some cyclopean giant, if I remember correctly. The Norse god Odin only had one eye. The Graiae of Greek mythology only had one eye between them which they traded back and forth. Hardly Masonic.

What a great history lesson, from giants to greek gods.

Unfortunately, I think there's more to the EYE than meets the eye. Especially when it comes to Freemasonry. But yeah, we're talking about opinions here.

C. Thirteen is a Baker's Dozen. Are cookies evil too now, as the number is obviously symbolic of those gosh-darned Masons? Give me a break. Seven is so overused it's downright sickening, as it generally stems from when it was commonly held that there were seven planets, seven veils, seven deadly sins, seven seas, seven wonders of the world, etc. Nothing to do with Masonry at all. Nine? Nine is a perfect square, isn't it? Important long before the Brothers got a hold of it. This number thing is ridiculous anyway. I have heard every number up to a hundred associated in some way with Masonry, and it's just plain stupid. "Three is a mockery of the trinity; is a symbol of the pyramid; is a symbol of being trapped in the third dimesion..." and "Four is a symbol of the square, which has four sides; is a symbol of the fourth dimension, where the reptiles rule; is a symbol of the Four Horseman of the Apocolyse (which everyone says the Masons are sponsoring anyway!); is a symbol of the cubist matrix we are all trapped in;..." I mean, come on, it's gets really old after a while, all this nonsense over seeing so called Masonic numerology hidden in everything. Some people need to get a life.

Actually, considering how cookies are saturated with fat and cholesterol, yes..in a way, they are evil

I'm not an expert on numbers, apparently you've studied it up quite a bit. But I think numbers play a crucial part in the power of symbolism. How you want to interpret that information is up to you.

D. Eagles. Talk to a Native American about eagle symbolism. NOT Masonic. In fact, do yourself a favor and look into the old "the serpent vs. the eagle" symbolism among ancient MesoAmericans. The two generally don't like each other. So which is it? Eagle-promoting Masons or Reptilian Masons? Nature says you can't have both. Unless you're Quetzalcoatl, because then you could be the "feathered serpent", which is interesting in itself. But he's not a Mason, either.

Sorry, but when I see eagles on book covers of important books like Morals and Dogma and several other masonic symbols, I think it's fair to ask why an eagle is so prominent throughout their works of literature and symbolism.

E. Fasces? Originated in Roman times as a symbol of power and authority. Has been co-opted by countless political movements which had nothing to do with Masonry.

Okay. But if I'm not mistaken I read that in modern Italy it is a symbol of Fascism.

I'm also reading here that:

"The symbol of fascism, in its original Italian incarnation under Benito Mussolini, and which gave fascism its name, was the fasces. This is an ancient Roman symbol of power carried by lictors in front of magistrates: a bundle of sticks, which included an axe indicating the power over life and death."

And that was on the US dime?

More on the Fasces symbol in our Government:

www.bcrevolution.ca...

Tell me with a straight face that's all BS. Or perhaps...a coincidence?!

On a planet where humans tend to learn from one another (look up cultural diffusion) and occasionally rip off each other's ideas (as there are only so many original ideas to begin with and we all circulate them in the cosmic soup of the Collective Unconscious), sharing symbols among groups is not that uncommon. It's a consequence of social interaction and occurs naturally, without the necessity of a flippin' conspiracy.

No actually, the difference between me and you is that I believe that there actually is a conspiracy that is so MASSIVE in our country that it's gonna be hard, real hard to dig up the truth.

You people really need to get out more and quit reading into everything.

What's wrong with reading into things? Don't wanna strain your brain?

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Please, tell me what my agenda is. I'd like to know!

I thought you knew everything by this point??? You don't even know your own agenda yet? Tsk tsk.

I never said that stars had masonic influence.

You said, and I quote: "I see a masonic influence in all of them (symbols of the slide show), quite frankly. "

What a great history lesson, from giants to greek gods.
(snip)
I'm not an expert on numbers, apparently you've studied it up quite a bit.

It's called r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. You should try it sometime. I hear colleges and universities specialize in it. It's not exactly Google, though.

How you want to interpret that information is up to you.

Now THAT is something we can both agree on. I wish you'd apply that a little more liberally.

Sorry, but when I see eagles on book covers of important books like Morals and Dogma and several other masonic symbols, I think it's fair to ask why an eagle is so prominent throughout their works of literature and symbolism.

Fair enough, but I didn't see you actually ASK about what the symbolism of the eagle meant to them, rather you agreed with NeonHelmet that seeing the eagle everywhere was an indication of Masonry's far-reaching political influences that were associated with former fascist governments. Maybe Masonic Light can help with an accurate explanation on the eagle symbolism, if you are indeed confused.

E. Fasces? Originated in Roman times as a symbol of power and authority. Has been co-opted by countless political movements which had nothing to do with Masonry.

Okay. But if I'm not mistaken I read that in modern Italy it is a symbol of Fascism.

I'm also reading here that:

"The symbol of fascism, in its original Italian incarnation under Benito Mussolini, and which gave fascism its name, was the fasces. This is an ancient Roman symbol of power carried by lictors in front of magistrates: a bundle of sticks, which included an axe indicating the power over life and death."

And that was on the US dime?

More on the Fasces symbol in our Government:

www.bcrevolution.ca...

I still don't see how this implicates Freemasonry, that the Italians in WWII used this symbolism for a fascist movement. The Nazis hunted down and systematically exterminated every minority in their path, including Masons. I hardly believe the Masons are upholding the symbols of the Third Reich in Hitler's honor.

Tell me with a straight face that's all BS. Or perhaps...a coincidence?!

If I had a straight face emoticon, I would use it. You're reaching without much of a concrete connection. Sorry, but you aren't very convincing.

On a planet where humans tend to learn from one another (look up cultural diffusion) and occasionally rip off each other's ideas (as there are only so many original ideas to begin with and we all circulate them in the cosmic soup of the Collective Unconscious), sharing symbols among groups is not that uncommon. It's a consequence of social interaction and occurs naturally, without the necessity of a flippin' conspiracy.

No actually, the difference between me and you is that I believe that there actually is a conspiracy that is so MASSIVE in our country that it's gonna be hard, real hard to dig up the truth.

You people really need to get out more and quit reading into everything.

What's wrong with reading into things? Don't wanna strain your brain?

Strain my brain? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with that. I was reading Freud and Jung while you were pining away over Justin Timberlake, sweetie.

Hail!

Okie this is gonna be a long one!

Some of the images have absolutely no connection to Freemasonry, others do intentionally. It's obvious he posted images which HE THOUGHT had a connection to Freemasonry (although sometimes incorrectly).

Yes that is true, I posted images where I believe there to be a connection! And yes I could be wrong! Also I like the change of tone, it is much appreciated! Thank you Sebatwerk! I will try and control my anti Masonic outbursts!

Seriously though, alot of those pictures have ambiguous symbols in them; I mean, Masonry doesn't have copyright or monopoly on any of their symbols, and some of them are used quite often in other applications.

I think what Seb means is that sometimes you see what you want to see, that's all. If you are [i[looking for a connection hard enough, sometimes you will see it when it's not there, or in this case, when it is dubious at best.

No but they where some of the first ones to use them, and we see the same Masonic symbolism in many corporations and governments controlled by masons! That’s all! And I knew what Sebatwerk meant, I am just sharing a little of my famous sarcasm!

ummmm neon helmet, Diplomatic Immunity only works if you are granted it by your government, and the governing body of which you are traveling to agrees to honor that grant. it doesnt work for internet posts, and cant be giving by anyone except by, like i said, The governing body in which you live....AND is only granted to dignitary's and special police forces, and protective agency's such as the secret service....i know because i BELONG to one of those agency's. your claims of diplomatic immunity is sheer BS.

*LOL* Uhh mister agent so sorry, I am an Illustrious Member of the First Wave, Fifth Column! The Anti-Masonic Free Community! I have been given DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY, by the authority I live in. An because it is an INTERNET COMMUNITY, it does for me! *ROFL*
This is just great, keep it up we need some fun in these threads!

Stars, stars, so many stars! FYI: Look up. They're everywhere. Did MASONS put them there to prove their influence in everything? No

You are not serious here are you? The symbols I presented have nothing to do with the stars in the universe. Does the sun look like the Star of David? A pentagram? Keep it real I would like to debate this, there is CLEAR symbolism in the five pointed star, and I don’t think it has anything to do with real stars! Also the six pointed star is a little tricky, but would still say that it’s symbolism originate from Egypt or Babylon as the SEAL OF SOLOMON! They upward five pointed pentagram is a symbol of man! And the downward five pointed pentagram is a symbol of YOUR GOAT! This is plain dualism!



GOATU = Smitty?

He’s going to get the goat

You are going to ride the goat

Look out for the goat

I know about your goat! Stop acting like I don’t! If the moderators in here knew about the subliminal message’s you guys are sending you would be warned!

The eye. Ooooh. Started with the Egyptians, but other traditions have references to the "singular eye" concept as well, ones that are pretty far removed from Masonry, in my opinion. David from the Old Testament sent a rock through the eye of some cyclopean giant, if I remember correctly. The Norse god Odin only had one eye. The Graiae of Greek mythology only had one eye between them which they traded back and forth. Hardly Masonic.

Well the eye of Wodan had as I have said many times nothing to do with the 3rd eye! But I believe it to be a Masonic symbol, originates in Sumaria then Egypt and so forth, it is the symbol of the mystery schools and the Dionysian Artificers of Greece! It is the ALL SEEING EYE we are talking about, not just A eye!

Thirteen is a Baker's Dozen. Are cookies evil too now, as the number is obviously symbolic of those gosh-darned Masons? Give me a break. Seven is so overused it's downright sickening, as it generally stems from when it was commonly held that there were seven planets, seven veils, seven deadly sins, seven seas, seven wonders of the world, etc. Nothing to do with Masonry at all. Nine? Nine is a perfect square, isn't it? Important long before the Brothers got a hold of it. This number thing is ridiculous anyway. I have heard every number up to a hundred associated in some way with Masonry, and it's just plain stupid. "Three is a mockery of the trinity; is a symbol of the pyramid; is a symbol of being trapped in the third dimesion..." and "Four is a symbol of the square, which has four sides; is a symbol of the fourth dimension, where the reptiles rule; is a symbol of the Four Horseman of the Apocolyse (which everyone says the Masons are sponsoring anyway!); is a symbol of the cubist matrix we are all trapped in;..." I mean, come on, it's gets really old after a while, all this nonsense over seeing so called Masonic numerology hidden in everything. Some people need to get a life.

What is a baker’s dozen, I thought a dozen was twelwe?
There are a few numbers of importance!

1 – 3 – 5

7 – 9 – 13

11 – 22 – 33

But yes it s a favourite tool of conspiracy theorist as you can almost certainly make a lot of random connections in numbers! See below.

First 8 digits of pi = 3.1415926

3 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 5 + 9 + 2 + 6 = 31
31 ^ 2 = 961
961 upside down is 691

the next 6 digits of pi are 535897

691 - 5 - 3 - 5 - 8 - 9 - 7 = 654
the next 2 digits of pi are 93
654 + 9 + 3 = 666

Eagles. Talk to a Native American about eagle symbolism. NOT Masonic. In fact, do yourself a favor and look into the old "the serpent vs. the eagle" symbolism among ancient MesoAmericans. The two generally don't like each other. So which is it? Eagle-promoting Masons or Reptilian Masons? Nature says you can't have both. Unless you're Quetzalcoatl, because then you could be the "feathered serpent", which is interesting in itself. But he's not a Mason, either.

Well this has nothing to do with the Native Americans! The eagle is a modern symbol of the phoenix or BenBen bird!

Fasces? Originated in Roman times as a symbol of power and authority. Has been co-opted by countless political movements which had nothing to do with Masonry.

The word for axe in Egypt was neter, which is very close to neter-kherti, a term that means quarry man or stonemason. This is highly likely to be the real meaning of the axe in the symbol fasces. The axe is also associated with the goddess, the key figure in illuminati rituals. Ma’at was sometimes portrayed holding the fasces and a flame. The 22° of the Scottish rite is called “Knight of Royal Axe

Well I believe it to be!

On a planet where humans tend to learn from one another (look up cultural diffusion) and occasionally rip off each other's ideas (as there are only so many original ideas to begin with and we all circulate them in the cosmic soup of the Collective Unconscious), sharing symbols among groups is not that uncommon. It's a consequence of social interaction and occurs naturally, without the necessity of a flippin' conspiracy.

True! Can’t argue with that!

You people really need to get out more and quit reading into everything.

You do not know what I use my time on, except the few posts I make in here! HOW AND WHERE I use MY TIME is none of your concern! I don’t need advice from someone so fed up on him self as YOU are!

It's called r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. You should try it sometime. I hear colleges and universities specialize in it. It's not exactly Google, though.

Strain my brain? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with that. I was reading Freud and Jung while you were pining away over Justin Timberlake, sweetie

Don’t patronise! Play nice!

[edit on 12-8-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
You are not serious here are you? The symbols I presented have nothing to do with the stars in the universe. Does the sun look like the Star of David? A pentagram? Keep it real I would like to debate this, there is CLEAR symbolism in the five pointed star, and I don’t think it has anything to do with real stars! Also the six pointed star is a little tricky, but would still say that it’s symbolism originate from Egypt or Babylon as the SEAL OF SOLOMON! They upward five pointed pentagram is a symbol of man!

My point was that since stars have always been with us (or rather above us), it is no surprise that they find their way into symbolism and mythology over the ages. It is NOT indicative that the symbols or the meanings are connected in some nefarious conspiracy.

And the downward five pointed pentagram is a symbol of YOUR GOAT! This is plain dualism!



GOATU = Smitty?

He’s going to get the goat

You are going to ride the goat

Look out for the goat

I know about your goat! Stop acting like I don’t! If the moderators in here knew about the subliminal message’s you guys are sending you would be warned!

As I'm not a Freemason, I could hardly claim any goat for myself. I do, however, have a pretty good idea as to where you keep yours tied up.

So which is it? A 5-pointed star (and upright or reversed? can't be both) or a 6-pointed star? It seems the anti's like to latch onto every symbol out there and connect it to this subject. I mean, come on.

According to anti-arguments I have seen:
The upright 5-points is supposedly about "withcraft", yet the reverse 5-points is supposedly the Goat or Baphomet, which are both "eee-vill". No-win situation. Five-points are out, no matter what their orientation.

Yet the 6 pointed star is supposedly due to the Christian/Jewish/Biblical influence (and of course Zionist political leanings/favoritism to Israel???) yet then at the same time the 6 pointed star is demonized by attributing it Solomon who supposedly conjured demons, practiced magic, built temples as cleverly-disguised portals of evil... So we have a Israelite King appointed by Yahweh (which is good?) but yet the symbol itself is bad because it is found in the teachings of Freemasonry? Which is it then? Good or bad? Most of the time this sort of logic is so circuitous that none of it holds any weight at all.

Seriously, is there any angle you people won't work to try to make your point? You outright contradict yourself with the 5-point thing. Did you think no one would notice?

Well the eye of Wodan had as I have said many times nothing to do with the 3rd eye! But I believe it to be a Masonic symbol, originates in Sumaria then Egypt and so forth, it is the symbol of the mystery schools and the Dionysian Artificers of Greece! It is the ALL SEEING EYE we are talking about, not just A eye!

Tell me why you think this symbol is so important. I'm not implying it is irrelevant. How are the All-Seeing-Eye, the 3rd Eye, and Freemasonry connected? I would like you to elaborate on your findings.

I'm not even getting into the numerology thing because you people all start to sound like RainMan after a while.

Well this has nothing to do with the Native Americans! The eagle is a modern symbol of the phoenix or BenBen bird!

Again, you have missed my point, which was that many traditions have the eagle as a symbol and it is no indication of some conspiracy. I see more eagle symbolism in Native American culture than I ever did in Masonry materials so am I to assume (as some others do) that since they share the same symbol, perhaps even for the same reasons, that the Natives are in bed with the Brothers in order to take over the world and they are communicating this through their depiction of the eagle on everything? NO. THAT'S RIDICULOUS. Yet the form for the argument is being used here in same unsubstantiated fashion. I'm merely comparing apples to apples to show how ludicrous and baseless that conclusion really is without some sort of evidence. Connect the dots is not always sufficient.

You people really need to get out more and quit reading into everything.

You do not know what I use my time on, except the few posts I make in here! HOW AND WHERE I use MY TIME is none of your concern! I don’t need advice from someone so fed up on him self as YOU are!

It's called r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. You should try it sometime. I hear colleges and universities specialize in it. It's not exactly Google, though.

Strain my brain? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with that. I was reading Freud and Jung while you were pining away over Justin Timberlake, sweetie

Don’t patronise! Play nice!

I tend to be snappy with those who are too lazy to research adequately and yet feel it necessary to shove their uneducated opinion down innocent people's throats and demand that these folks then defend themselves against such shoddy accusations. It's wrong. And if the shoe was on the other foot, it would be a very different story, I assure you. These people know who they are.

And since when did everyone get so thin-skinned in here? I love it how people can dish it out but then can't take it, and that goes for almost everyone I've seen slinging mud in here. Your posts have improved immensely in their tone over time, Neon and I do commend you for that, and how you are trying to keep things respectful between yourself and certain Brothers. You certainly have a right to your anti-opinion, as I have a right to my own opinion as well, which is more of a middle of the road "live and let live" sort of philosophy. I would defend you in the same manner if I felt you were being unfairly persecuted.

Neon, you are seriously mistaken about me and if you had more information you'd probably be rather ashamed of yourself that you have erroneously judged me in such a critical manner. Thankfully I am not very thin-skinned.



[edit on 12-8-2005 by Stegosaur]

Originally posted by Stegosaur
I'm not even getting into the numerology thing because you people all start to sound like RainMan after a while.

Def... D... De... Defin... Definitely... Definitely K-Mart... Yeah. Yeah, K-Mart...

Well, there you have it conclusively. Anything or anyone with eyes is part of a conspiracy. Extra points if your organization makes you wear goat leggings. Even in the summer which will make your thighs sweat and get all rashy. Now that that's been settled to everyone's satisfaction, we're off to the "glass in the sky" controversy.

Stegosaur!

Hail and thank you for adding some positive criticism to this thread! I would however like to say that not all in my post where for you! But perhaps I should practise on this! I tend to write to all and then flip and write to one! Mybad…

My point was that since stars have always been with us (or rather above us), it is no surprise that they find their way into symbolism and mythology over the ages. It is NOT indicative that the symbols or the meanings are connected in some nefarious conspiracy.

No not all stars, just the stars I have presented in the Slide Show and talk about in the first post!

As I'm not a Freemason, I could hardly claim any goat for myself. I do, however, have a pretty good idea as to where you keep yours tied up.

So which is it? A 5-pointed star (and upright or reversed? can't be both) or a 6-pointed star? It seems the anti's like to latch onto every symbol out there and connect it to this subject. I mean, come on.

According to anti-arguments I have seen:
The upright 5-points is supposedly about "withcraft", yet the reverse 5-points is supposedly the Goat or Baphomet, which are both "eee-vill". No-win situation. Five-points are out, no matter what their orientation.

Yet the 6 pointed star is supposedly due to the Christian/Jewish/Biblical influence (and of course Zionist political leanings/favoritism to Israel???) yet then at the same time the 6 pointed star is demonized by attributing it Solomon who supposedly conjured demons, practiced magic, built temples as cleverly-disguised portals of evil... So we have a Israelite King appointed by Yahweh (which is good?) but yet the symbol itself is bad because it is found in the teachings of Freemasonry? Which is it then? Good or bad? Most of the time this sort of logic is so circuitous that none of it holds any weight at all.

Seriously, is there any angle you people won't work to try to make your point? You outright contradict yourself with the 5-point thing. Did you think no one would notice?’

The quotes about the goat are to the free masons on this site! I know they will ignore it because that is what they do when you talk about their little secrets! No offence here guys, it’s just what you do!

Perhaps! And this is pure speculation the six pointed star, is both stars, it is the one star!
The upward pointed star represents man!
The downward pointed star represents the GOATU!
So if we put these two symbols together we get perfection! I don’t know?
I know the goat is important, and I think it has something to do with Benjamin Franklin. Some prank or something deeper perhaps not sure! A mason would be able to clear this up! It has something to do with Babylon and something about how the goat always resides at the temple! Or is in essence always there!

I am not saying Solomon is evil, I do however say that the David Star or six pointed star is the Seal of Solomon!
I am not saying GOOD BAD that’s all dualism! I am saying there is a connection! And that the servants of God, is being manipulated, like the servants of politics or rationalism etc.
If I contradict myself it is because of my poor skills to make my point, and I do have trouble here ill admit that! Perhaps it is the language, but I will swear that when I say it in Danish it makes sense, then ill translate it and then it can sometimes be understood as something else! Ill work on this though.

Upright/downwards five point star = dualism
Six pointed star = monism

Sorry about the misunderstanding!

Tell me why you think this symbol is so important. I'm not implying it is irrelevant. How are the All-Seeing-Eye, the 3rd Eye, and Freemasonry connected? I would like you to elaborate on your findings.

All Seeing Eye! Eye of Horus!



All Seeing Eye! Eye of Horus



All Seeing Eye! Eye of Horus!



All Seeing Eye! Eye of Horus!

freemasonry.bcy.ca..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

All Seeing Eye! Eye of Horus!



All Seeing Eye! Eye of Horus!



All Seeing Eye! Eye of Horus!

I see the eye as a representation of the mystery schools of Egypt, the Hyksos and the Dionysian Artificers!

I'm not even getting into the numerology thing because you people all start to sound like RainMan after a while.

Def... D... De... Defin... Definitely... Definitely K-Mart... Yeah. Yeah, K-Mart...

*LOL*

Thank you!

Again, you have missed my point, which was that many traditions have the eagle as a symbol and it is no indication of some conspiracy. I see more eagle symbolism in Native American culture than I ever did in Masonry materials so am I to assume (as some others do) that since they share the same symbol, perhaps even for the same reasons, that the Natives are in bed with the Brothers in order to take over the world and they are communicating this through their depiction of the eagle on everything? NO. THAT'S RIDICULOUS. Yet the form for the argument is being used here in same unsubstantiated fashion. I'm merely comparing apples to apples to show how ludicrous and baseless that conclusion really is without some sort of evidence. Connect the dots is not always sufficient.

Yes but I am saying that the EAGLE is a modern representation of the PHEONIX which is and older representation of the BENBEN BIRD!
The eagle in Native American mythology is an EAGLE; to my knowledge haven’t done any research here! And masons use the 2 headed eagle a lot!
And Native Americans aren’t running big corporations and have big lands, now do they! Oh I forgot some do! But I would like some feedback on the symbolism of the eagle vs. Native American history!

I tend to be snappy with those who are too lazy to research adequately and yet feel it necessary to shove their uneducated opinion down innocent people's throats and demand that these folks then defend themselves against such shoddy accusations. It's wrong. And if the shoe was on the other foot, it would be a very different story, I assure you. These people know who they are.

And since when did everyone get so thin-skinned in here? I love it how people can dish it out but then can't take it, and that goes for almost everyone I've seen slinging mud in here. Your posts have improved immensely in their tone over time, Neon and I do commend you for that, and how you are trying to keep things respectful between yourself and certain Brothers. You certainly have a right to your anti-opinion, as I have a right to my own opinion as well, which is more of a middle of the road "live and let live" sort of philosophy. I would defend you in the same manner if I felt you were being unfairly persecuted.

Neon, you are seriously mistaken about me and if you had more information you'd probably be rather ashamed of yourself that you have erroneously judged me in such a critical manner. Thankfully I am not very thin-skinned.

First of I am not saying you are a mason!

Secondly, yea I know sorry for being thin skinned mate, no reason there for me to get jumpy like I did!

Third; what do you think I have mistaken about you? I have not myself come to any conclusion regarding you, other than you are a little fed up on your self! You do like to see your self write and you do boast a little, just a little i.e. The Jung and Freud comment! This is just an observation mate no ill intend here! I haven’t judged you in any way! And I myself tend to boast some times!

Well, there you have it conclusively. Anything or anyone with eyes is part of a conspiracy. Extra points if your organization makes you wear goat leggings. Even in the summer which will make your thighs sweat and get all rashy. Now that that's been settled to everyone's satisfaction, we're off to the "glass in the sky" controversy.

Yes yes, move along now nothing to see here!

I just love a person who jumps in a thread of 100+ posts and then think they know what is going on!

[edit on 12-8-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
I just love a person who jumps in a thread of 100+ posts and then think they know what is going on!

Actually, I've been following this thread from its inception, about 2 weeks. Almost as ironic as someone who spends a couple of months "researching" something that's been in existance for hundreds of years and claims to have the inside scoop. I love that, too.

Originally posted by yeahright
Almost as ironic as someone who spends a couple of months "researching" something that's been in existance for hundreds of years and claims to have the inside scoop. I love that, too.

Niiiiiiiiiice.

You have voted yeahright for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet

I am not saying Solomon is evil, I do however say that the David Star or six pointed star is the Seal of Solomon!

Technically the hexagram is a part of the Seal of Solomon. The seal needs to have the following writing on it.

Tetragrammaton aka YHVH aka Jehovah aka Yahweh.
AGLA aka "Athah gobon leolam, Adonai." or "Thou art powerful and eternal, Lord." in English.
Alpha and Omega - “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord” (Revelation 1:8).
Tau Cross aka Saint Anthony's cross



Without these additional features it is not the Seal of Solomon, just a hexagram (The hexagram represents planetary aspects)

And a quick FYI the Seal does not date back to Solomon's time. It is a Medevil design. (They tended to give false histories to things like this to avoid being called heretics, and just to make them seem more impressive.

[edit on 8/12/2005 by Cug]

Actually, I've been following this thread from its inception, about 2 weeks. Almost as ironic as someone who spends a couple of months "researching" something that's been in existance for hundreds of years and claims to have the inside scoop. I love that, too.

If you had followed this thread from the beginning you would not make such an ignorant remark! I haven’t said that “anything or anyone” with eyes is a part of a conspiracy! Where have I said that? Show me!
How do you know how much time I have put into this? You are guessing and you are missing! And I don’t claim it to be in existence for hundreds of years! I claim it to have been here for thousands!
And where have I said anything about inside knowledge? I look at history and symbolism, not much insider info there! But your post “stink” and now you try to defend something that smells, that’s your choice!

I can’t believe that the way above top secret reward is being raped on an insignificant post as this! An example ML’s vote for Cug! Now here we have a good vote! Axeman you are just raping the system! What have he contributed with? Anyways it is your vote and you can use it as you like!

Oh and Axeman? Is it fair for me to conclude you agree and if so how do you know how much time I have used researching this? I would like to know!

Technically the hexagram is a part of the Seal of Solomon. The seal needs to have the following writing on it

Thanks Cug! Nice seal!

Do you know the term simplistic symbolism?

Anyways loved the picture!

And a quick FYI the Seal does not date back to Solomon's time. It is a Medevil design. (They tended to give false histories to things like this to avoid being called heretics, and just to make them seem more impressive.

Says you!

Perhaps the seal doesn’t ill look into that! Do you know anything about the symbolism of the Hyksos i.e. The shepherd kings?

Cug thank you for adding to this thread!

[edit on 12-8-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet

Do you know the term simplistic symbolism?

That's really not applicable if anything we Ceremonial Magicians like things complex. anyway like I said if you simplify the seal to just the hexagram you have to use the meaning of a plain hexagram, each point is one of the 6 planets (all they knew of at the time) and the center is the sun. You would be amazed how picky we really are

Says you!

Perhaps the seal doesn’t ill look into that! Do you know anything about the symbolism of the Hyksos i.e. The shepherd kings?

Says the experts!

Really they have never found anything about the Solomonic Grimoires that pre-dates the middle ages.

nope I don't know anything about the Hyksos other than they were rulers of Egypt for a time.

Tell me NeonHelmet, do you have faith in law? Do you believe it has faith in YOU?

How do you feel about the CROWN or the VATICAN?