And the truth shall set you free! (The End)

Did you read the responses to that question? Not very positive responses. I can't speak for all Masons
but most that I know are against recruitment, that's not to say they are aginst talking about or letting people know they Masons though.

The question probably arose due to declining membership. Many years ago(long before my time), many men wanted to join
but as with most charitable organizations and civic clubs membership has been on a steady decline for quite a while.

Yes me two!
I am against recruitment, i say, not that i speak for all masons though, enough is enough! lets hear it from all the boys! "cant we see cant we sail, oh the mountain is pale"
And to stop that steady decline i say, not that i speak for all masons though, lets drop the secret thing, and invite all in! to see that we are good, decent, peace loving and great souled men!

Neon aka. M.O.T.A.M.L.

i went to the lodge room forum and found this thread

thought you where a mason who went to your lodge room forum, and found this thread! aka. and the truth shall set you free!

now - pay attention to you own thread! ; )

Okie, will do that mate!

[edit on 28-7-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet


A Priest, no babylonian or egyptian connection?

Why would you think this is a Babylonian or Egyptian priest? Looks like a Jerusalem temple high priest (note the breastplate) to me.

The real problem with your theories, in my opinion, is that you fail to understand that groups like Masonry and the Illuminati, which flourished during the Enlightenment, were AGAINST Monarchy and far more egalitarian than what you seem to be saying. The original critics of Masonry were against it for trying to overturn the social order of the day (i.e. Monarchy) and for it's belief that all men are equal and should govern themselves. I find it impossible to reconcile this historical fact with your bloodlines theory.



[edit on 7/28/2005 by JustMe74]

Why would you think this is a Babylonian or Egyptian priest? Looks like a Jerusalem temple high priest (note the breastplate) to me.

Okie perhaps the breastplate is of a Jerusalem Priest! I looked at the hat and the “primitive morning star filled with incense thingy”

I’m not talking about the illuminati of Bavaria! Yes masons where against monarchy, this I call a power struggle! Masons and the mystery schools are the people behind the monarchy, monarchy perhaps rebelled against it as many pharaohs tried! And they all failed! Look at the monarchy today!

I find it impossible to reconcile this historical fact with your bloodlines theory

Ok, and you are entitled to find it IMPOSSIBLE! I don’t however! Thank you for adding to this thread!


[edit on 28-7-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Howdo, NeonHelmet (Son of Balder, Conqueror of Helgardh)?

”Ohh, so tell me of one blue lodge mason aka. master mason aka. 3rd degree mason who is in the OTO or Grand Council? just one? come on!”

I’ve post’d here several times, stat’n what ya are asking…

“I was the Past Master of My Lodge in 2003
I have been the SECRETary of my lodge sense then.
This year I have a position with the Grand Lodge of Colorado AF&AM.
I do see myself as being the Right Worshipful Grand Master of Colorado, within a decade.
I am a 3rd degree Mason ("A Master Mason"), I haven’t tak’n the additional degrees, ‘n don't see myself take'n them for another 20-30 years.”
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I would like ta add that I’m a Shriner.

‘N similar quotes on…
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes, I hold a place in the Grand Lodge of Colorado AF&AM, if ya would like ta ask me questions ‘bout this “Hierarchy”, ‘n my lack of Degrees, feel free ta U2U me. I would love ta reply ta direct questions (ones that aren’t over 10 screens long).

Now, I would like to ask ya ta think twice’fore say’n that ALL Freemasons do this, or ALL Freemasons think that. ‘Cause quite frankly… I take it personal when someone states that ‘cause I’m a Freemason I don’t believe in God, or I believe this, or that I feel a certain way. If ya don’t know me, how can ya judge me? By Pigeon hole’n me? Your right… the truth shall set you free, after a 13+ page post of hostility, seems as though you would be the one need’n ta be set free.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Okie perhaps the breastplate is of a Jerusalem Priest! I looked at the hat and the “primate morning star filled with incense thingy”

It's a Jerusalem temple high priest. They used incense as well.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Yes masons where against monarchy, this I call a power struggle! Masons and the mystery schools are the people behind the monarchy, monarchy perhaps rebelled against it as many pharaohs tried!

Huh? This does not make sense. You say they were against monarchy and then you say that they were behind it?

Masonry and other "secret socities" that were formed in the 1700's (like the Illuminati) were very egalitarian and pro-Democracy and generally embraced the ideals of the Enlightenment.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
And they all failed! Look at the monarchy today!

I'd say they succeeded quite well. The monarchy is gone or irrelevant in most European countries today.

Ok, and you are entitled to find it IMPOSSIBLE! I don’t however!

-shrug- You can believe what you want.


[edit on 7/28/2005 by JustMe74]

Hehe Co_Cowboy, you’re just great! Hehe I feel you all the way over the Atlantic.

Howdo, NeonHelmet (Son of Balder, Conqueror of Helgardh)?

Don’t understand the first question! Explain please!

I was the Past Master of My Lodge in 2003
I have been the SECRETary of my lodge sense then.
This year I have a position with the Grand Lodge of Colorado AF&AM.
I do see myself as being the Right Worshipful Grand Master of Colorado, within a decade.
I am a 3rd degree Mason ("A Master Mason"), I haven’t tak’n the additional degrees, ‘n don't see myself take'n them for another 20-30 years.”

Congratulation and my best of hope to you!

I meant Grand councils like that of the York rite or the grand lodge of OTO! But if I am mistaken and it is the grand lodge of OTO you are a member of . Then my apologies!
Now this is only a backup remark! In case some one tries anything!
I did say GRAND COUNCIL OR OTO!

But again thank you!

Also isn’t the grand lodge like a BIG lodge for a state? And it is important to stress this! There are more to masonry than the blue lodges and Scottish rite! And I know you won’t deny that!

Now, I would like to ask ya ta think twice’fore say’n that ALL Freemasons do this, or ALL Freemasons think that. ‘Cause quite frankly… I take it personal when someone states that ‘cause I’m a Freemason I don’t believe in God, or I believe this, or that I feel a certain way. If ya don’t know me, how can ya judge me? By Pigeon hole’n me? Your right… the truth shall set you free, after a 13+ page post of hostility, seems as though you would be the one need’n ta be set free.

Have you just jumped in at the request of some one! Or have you actually read what I write! I haven’t said ALL FREEMASONS DO THIS, OR ALL FREEMASONS DO THAT!
I am speaking of the writers of the New Testament and the Old Testament and the Koran and the Torah and the book of the dead and all other religions that comes from Egypt and Sumer.
I haven’t said you don’t believe in god! I said that Christianity is SUN WORSHIPING! If you believe in god, that’s fine! And quite frankly I don’t care where you focus your energy and from where you draw it, why? Because it’s none of my business, I am talking about the history and the POWER MOGULS who manipulate all of society through many things incl. FREE MASONRY! And I don’t know you and I don’t judge YOU! I judge your organizations history!
And if all you got from my 13+ page post was hostility, then I think you should read it again!

I am free, free of groups, free of society, free of religion*, free of drugs and free of ignorance**

But again thank you for adding to this thread! And I liked your post! It was good! None taken, none given!


* some may know I hold the asatrue beliefs, but we are free to practice it as we will, we aren’t approved or told what and how to do the things we want to do! Example; I don’t pray and I don’t sacrifice anything! I don’t celebrate any events and what I have with Odin is between me and him!


** As ignorance is the lack of information, I cant claim that to a 100% because that would mean that I knew everything!

JustMe74 i am sorry for my bad English but what i meant was:

It's a Jerusalem temple high priest. They used incense as well.

Yes you are correct! I wasn’t starting an argument! I don’t know if its an Jerusalem high preist and there fore I said perhaps!

Huh? This does not make sense. You say they were against monarchy and then you say that they were behind it?

Masonry and other "secret socities" that were formed in the 1700's (like the Illuminati) were very egalitarian and pro-Democracy and generally embraced the ideals of the Enlightenment.

Stop talking about the Illuminati like its some secret frat club! The name illuminati is a name used by conspiracy folks like my self, as a name for an organization we can’t prove exist!
And yes it comes from the name the Bavaria Illuminati!

I say that perhaps, the reason they were against it is because they put the monarchs in power and then they wouldn’t be controlled! I.e. THE POWER STRUGGLE!
Make sense now? Or at least do you understand what it is I am trying to type in my best text book English?

I'd say they succeeded quite well. The monarchy is gone or irrelevant in most European countries today

I can see I’m an idiot in English, I meant that the free masons etc. succeeded quite well in riding the world of monarchy!

shrug- You can believe what you want.

shrub- You can believe what you want to! 8)

[edit on 28-7-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by duskboy
i went to the lodge room forum and found this thread:

'Has anyone considered targeting colleges for new members'

why do a FM even ask a question like this - does he not know
how your fraternity works/operates? just asking.

Masonic Light pretty much summed up the answer to this post. Some masons truly do have the wrong idea about Freemasonry, and think that a large membership is the only way to keep the fraternity going. They see declining membership as a bad thing, and don't realize that QUALITY is better than QUANTITY. As for the individuals post, some jurisdictions are starting to take the initiative not by recruiting, but by simply making people AWARE of Freemasonry. Anytime a mason is discussion something like this, he is merely talking about recruiting to the extent that the fraternity will allow.

I am glad you visited the lodge room, and I hope everyone else does too. You can see, by the discussions going on there, that Freemasonry is only concerned about itself and about helping others; not about politics, society, money, power, etc. You'll notice that the majority of posts are regarding symbols, rituals or things about Freemasonry. These are the exact same kinds of things that masons talk about behind the closed doors of the lodge.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
I meant Grand councils like that of the York rite or the grand lodge of OTO! But if I am mistaken and it is the grand lodge of OTO you are a member of . Then my apologies!
Now this is only a backup remark! In case some one tries anything!
I did say GRAND COUNCIL OR OTO!

You realize that the OTO and Freemasonry are totally separate groups, with separate systems of belief, right?

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Stop talking about the Illuminati likes its some secret frat club! The name illuminate is a name used by conspiracy folks like my self, as a name for an organization we can’t prove exist!

Why should I stop talking about the Illuminati? I'll talk about what I want to talk about, thank you very much. My only point was that groups - like the Masons AND the Bavarian Illuminati (both of which were formed and/or flourished during the Enlightenment) were accused of a lot of things because they believed in changing the social order (Democracy vs. Monarchy). You do realize that the original critics of Masons were against the group because of this idea, right? And that they formulated all kinds of wild theories to discredit Masons, which are still being repeated today, right? I can easily back this up with references if you don't believe me.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
I say that perhaps, the reason they were against it is because they put the monarchs in power and then they wouldn’t be controlled! I.e. THE POWER STRUGGLE!
Make sense now? Or at least do you understand what it is I am trying to type in my best text book English?

I understand what you're saying, but the concept does not make logical sense. At the very least, there is absolutely no evidence, other than your opinion, to back up that statement.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
shrub- You can believe what you want to! 8)

Shrub? lol

Originally posted by NeonHelmet


I meant Grand councils like that of the York rite or the grand lodge of OTO! But if I am mistaken and it is the grand lodge of OTO you are a member of . Then my apologies!
Now this is only a backup remark! In case some one tries anything!
I did say GRAND COUNCIL OR OTO!

But again thank you!

Also isn’t the grand lodge like a BIG lodge for a state? And it is important to stress this! There are more to masonry than the blue lodges and Scottish rite! And I know you won’t deny that!

Masonry is governed by individual, sovereign Grand Lodges. For example, you were correct in your stating that in the USA, each state has its own Grand Lodge. Also, in Canada, each Province has its own Grand Lodge, and there are Grand Lodges in most other countries. Each of these Grand Lodges govern the Masonic Fraternity within its own geographical boundaries.

The O.T.O. is a little bit different, in as much as it has one International Grand Lodge that governs the Order worldwide. This probably isn't as difficult as it first seems, as O.T.O. is a very small organization, with only handfulls of members scattered here and there. The majority of O.T.O. members live in the USA, with most of the rest living in the U.K. and Canada, although there are small O.T.O. groups in Europe, South Africa, and Australia.

As for Grand Councils in the York Rite of Masonry, at least in the USA, they are like Grand Lodges, with one in every state. The exception here is that there is a General Grand Council of the United States, but this body is basically a convention, with the real authority lying in the Grand Council of each state.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
As for Grand Councils in the York Rite of Masonry, at least in the USA, they are like Grand Lodges, with one in every state. The exception here is that there is a General Grand Council of the United States, but this body is basically a convention, with the real authority lying in the Grand Council of each state.

And these Grand Councils only have control over the York Rite branch of Freemasonry in each state, correct? Does a masonic Grand Lodge have authority over Grand Councils, in the same way that it has authority over Scottish Rite bodies in the state?

Originally posted by sebatwerk


And these Grand Councils only have control over the York Rite branch of Freemasonry in each state, correct? Does a masonic Grand Lodge have authority over Grand Councils, in the same way that it has authority over Scottish Rite bodies in the state?

The Grand Councils have control only over three Degrees: Royal Master, Select Master, and Super Excellent Master. The Degrees of Royal Master and Select Master are generally received after one has been exalted to the Royal Arch, but previous to being received in a Commandery of Knights Templar. The Super Excellent Master is a "side degree" in the Rite.

Just as the Grand Councils control the Council degrees, there are Grand Chapters who control the Chapter degrees, and Grand Commanderies who control the Orders of Chivalry. All three of these organizations (Grand Chapters, Grand Councils, and Grand Commanderies) are subordinate to the Grand Lodges of the jurisdions in which they function. All ultimate Masonic authority lies within the Grand Lodge. Grand Organizations of the York and Scottish Rites all recognize the supreme authority of the Grand Lodges, who allow them to exist as Masonic organizations.

Thank you ML!

As always you’re a shining light that guides the ignorant!
I think it is the way you transfer your knowledge, in that old ML non judging way, even though you are being judged. Very commendable, very much indeed!

So the OTO, has no influence on the Scottish or York rite? I thought that the OTO where kind of a governing “state”?

As for the York rite’s general grand council, they don’t lay down the guidelines i.e. Rules for the other York lodges?

But it still didn’t answer my question? Is there or is there not a master mason, without any pendant
Degrees, in the OTO or general grand council of the York rite?

Thank you MasonicLight for adding to this thread!

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
But it still didn’t answer my question? Is there or is there not a master mason, without any pendant
Degrees, in the OTO or general grand council of the York rite?

The OTO, or Ordo Templi Orientis, is an organization that is COMPLETELY SEPARATE from Freemasonry. They used, and still use, many of Freemasonry's rituals, as well as others written by Aleister Crowley (thelema), but the organization itself has NOTHING to do with Freemasonry. Some masons are, however, also members of OTO.

As for a Master Mason, without any appendant degrees, being in the Grand Council of the York Rite, that's not possible. ANY member of the York Rite has received the York Rite's advanced degrees. Just like any member of the Scottish Rite has received the Scottish Rite's advanced degrees.

But ALL masons are still Master Masons, regardless of what appendant degrees they have. For example, I am a 3rd degree Master Mason (in the Blue Lodge), a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, and a Mark Master York Rite Mason.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

Thank you Sebatwerk for adding to this thread!

nvm the question!

[edit on 28-7-2005 by NeonHelmet]

But then the mason on this site would say that the connection I see here (the one below) is a fragment of my imagination and there is nothing to be concerned about?



Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II



Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Grand Master of Freemasons in the UK



Sir Andrew Bertie: Grand Master of the Soverign Military Order of the Knights of Malta (he is a cousin of Queen Elizabeth II)



Pope John Paul II



Count Hans KlovenBach: Superior General of the Jesuits




Remember I am not saying I am all knowing and i could be wrong! Feedback apriciated!

[edit on 28-7-2005 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Grand Master of Scotish Rite Freemasons in the UK

Prince Edward is the Grand Master of Freemasonry in the UK, not just Scottish Rite masons.

C. Fred Kleinknecht - Sovereign Grand Commander of all Scottish Rite Freemasons World-wide

Wrong again. He is the Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's U.S. SOUTHERN JURISDICTION ONLY.

Also, Kleinknecht doesn't have ANY authority over myself or any other Scottish Rite mason in the US's Southern Jurisdiciton. He only has authority and command over the administration of the organization.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

I will edit, my previous post!

Thank you for adding to this thread!

This is the link to the page where NeonHelmet got the information for his last post:

rain.prohosting.com...

This sure isn't a biased site (can you sense the sarcasm?)!

Sebatwerk you are great*! you dont know where i got the info!

*like Kellogs!

bah my concience tells me that i need to warn you Sebatwerk, i am baiting in above statement!



[edit on 28-7-2005 by NeonHelmet]