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Originally posted by The Axeman
Originally posted by akilles
The point is, these initiations (the serious ones) are designed to keep you from talking about it. It is an 'experience' that should be felt to be shared among all those who went through it, and not mentioned to all the rest.
Plus, any time they want to break down your individual barriers, you know there will be nudity involved (or at the least, a uniform/robe that everyone has to wear). Its tried and true, and you can probably be glad you didn't hear any more from your dad/husband.
And you know this from your VAST amount of personal experience, eh?
A uniform/robe that everyone has to wear at initiation?! Oh the HORROR!!
It's very subtle this time, but I still think you are teetering on the verge of homophobia.
P.S. Rasputin: There are a couple of KofC around here who will probably answer most if not all questions you might have... I wouldn't expect they would share ritual or cermonies with you, but perhaps can give you an idea of what it's about. Pbrez is one, as is Chief_Counsellor. Hope this helps.
[edit on 5/23/05 by The Axeman]
A uniform/robe that everyone has to wear at initiation?! Oh the HORROR!!
Originally posted by useurhead
Lots of legit members will always step up, defend their 'group', and disavow any wrongdoings. These people usually aren't privy (and never will be) to the information that theorists discuss.
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by useurhead
Lots of legit members will always step up, defend their 'group', and disavow any wrongdoings. These people usually aren't privy (and never will be) to the information that theorists discuss.
I agree with you utterly and completely, Masons know nothing about the institution they have been initiated into. Only the conspiracy theorist may know the true 'information' regarding Freemasonry, why anyone would think otherwise is so far beyond me as to be ludicrisly unexplainable.
Originally posted by useurhead
Since the highest degree of masonry is one that is secret even from you Blue Lodgers, you know just as much as a Conspiracy Theorist (CT) does.
Only CTers have an unfettered viewpoint, one that isn't tainted by membership and the natural human feelings of camaraderie. Also, if one is to admit that their association is 'evil' (to keep it simple) at any level is to admit being in league with 'evil' making it equally difficult to be objective.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Originally posted by useurhead
Since the highest degree of masonry is one that is secret even from you Blue Lodgers, you know just as much as a Conspiracy Theorist (CT) does.
This is incorrect. There is no degree of Masonry that is "secret". The only thing that is private is the *ceremony of initiation* into the degree, not the degree itself.
All degrees for all Masonic Rites are listed in their Constitutions and Codes, and are matters of Masonic law. Masons cannot introduce spurious degrees into the system.
Also, just to point an obvious fact, *ALL* Masons are "Blue Lodgers".
Only CTers have an unfettered viewpoint, one that isn't tainted by membership and the natural human feelings of camaraderie. Also, if one is to admit that their association is 'evil' (to keep it simple) at any level is to admit being in league with 'evil' making it equally difficult to be objective.
Conspiracy Theorists are generally not objective because they are usually lacking basic knowledge of Masonic law and organization. Your above comments about "secret degree" are a good example. Throughout the history of Masonry, hundreds of Masonic Rites have popped up, with thousands of degrees. Their existence is certainly not "secret", and Masonic scholars and historians have written tons of books about them.
[edit on 15-1-2008 by Masonic Light]
Originally posted by useurhead
I am willing to believe this, however, please account for the history of 33rd degree Masons being exclusive to the top most elite, upper echelon, mega-rich, and ultra powerful.
Originally posted by Appak
Originally posted by useurhead
I am willing to believe this, however, please account for the history of 33rd degree Masons being exclusive to the top most elite, upper echelon, mega-rich, and ultra powerful.
Interesting indeed. I became a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason several years ago and I have never considered myself to be of the "upper echelon" I'm certainly not mega-rich (heck, I drive a Chevrolet truck) and I'm hardly ultra-powerful.
What makes you think that 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons are all these?
Sure, there have been a couple of U.S. Presidents who have held the 33rd Degree, several congressmen, senators etc. But by far the vast majority of us are working-class people like myself who truly enjoy (and understand) Freemasonry and have been honoured by the Scottish Rite .
By the way, the 33rd isn't given solely for Masonic work within the fraternity itself. It's also given based on community (i.e. "charity" type) work, work within one's church or synagogue, etc.
Humanitarian-type "things" are highly regarded amongst Freemasons.
As for the Trilateral Commission....well, shucks, I've never been invited to serve. Maybe when I get the 34th Degree
Originally posted by useurhead
lol. Okay okay. Well said, sir. My issue, then, is that the upper echelon members of Freemasons (who are of the 33rd degree... or really any degree)
likely do not meet in the same lodges that you and your fellow masons meet.
Perhaps these upper echelon "33rd degree members" decided to break away from the official Freemason lodges and form their own form of freemasonry.
That, of course, is speculation.
Can someone here provide me a link to a list of 33rd degree masons?
Originally posted by useurhead
lol. Okay okay. Well said, sir. My issue, then, is that the upper echelon members of Freemasons (who are of the 33rd degree... or really any degree)
Originally posted by useurhead
My issue, then, is that the upper echelon members of Freemasons (who are of the 33rd degree... or really any degree) likely do not meet in the same lodges that you and your fellow masons meet.
Perhaps these upper echelon "33rd degree members" decided to break away from the official Freemason lodges and form their own form of freemasonry.
It goes way beyond a fraternal feeling when your monument is one of the largest masonic symbols in the world (obelisk surrounded by a circle) and streets are laid out to form a pentagram with the White House at the pinnacle (Lucifer's mind in the occult).
Can someone here provide me a link to a list of 33rd degree masons?
Originally posted by useurhead
The entity known as the "Illuminati" would most likely be the candidate for this breakaway bunch.
I will never be able to accept that the calls for NWO and all the symbols and numerology involved with these unscrupulous "Freemasons"
Originally posted by akilles
Plus, any time they want to break down your individual barriers, you know there will be nudity involved
Originally posted by akilles
And the Knights are named after a Pagan goddess, so I wouldn't stress the Catholicism aspect, except in which cases Catholicism is also Pagan goddess worship (for ex. Mary worship)
Originally posted by ThePunisher
why would a so called Catholic (Knights of Columbus) Ritual need to be scary?, and why would Catholics need Rituals anyway?.
Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Example: Other organizations or churches don't have an agenda to hide.
Why do the Masons and other cults deem themselves to secrecy ?
If it's not up front something is going on. It's just plain old common sense.
Originally posted by Rasputin13
So why were the Knights of Columbus named after Christopher Columbus? Or is that not true? If it is true, why would they pick him to name their organization after, of all people?
Originally posted by akilles
Why? Its like asking why they started in the first place. They were started in 1882, and wouldn't you know it, 2 years later, in 1884 all Catholics are banned from being Freemasons
Originally posted by Masonic Light
That would be unlikely because it would be grounds for them to be expelled (and therefore lose their 33rd degree).
You mind this difficult to believe, but there are no obelisks used in Masonic symbolism. Also, the streets of Washington D.C., contrary to what many conspiracy theorists believe, do not form a pentagram. And the architect of the D.C. street design was not a Mason.
Most 33rd degree Masons are just regular guys that you've never heard of before. But here's a few famous ones: etc etc
Two US Pesidents have been 33rd degree Masons: Democrat Harry S. Truman and Republican Gerald R. Ford.
Originally posted by useurhead
I've read many places that Bill Clinton, Saddam Hussein, and Jimmy Carter were 33rd degree masons as well. Masons are worldwide, correct?