Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Originally posted by Pissedoffnbeautiful
ok.. my stepdad is a mason, i tried talking to him last night after reading this post yesterday.. anyways i tried talking to him about the "masons" and why they are so secretive about what it is they do.. well he explained some.. but he said only 3% is secretive.. and that he couldnt tell me.. (he got really offensive when talking about it) im seroiusly going crazy over this.. i want to know the big damn secret..

hahahaha

Actually, I agree with your stepdad: only about 3% of Masonry is actually considered "secret". The secret stuff concerns the so-called "modes of recognition", which are the secret handshakes, passwords, and similar stuff. These things are kept secret because it allows Masons to recognize each other.

Everything else about Masonry is pretty much public.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Yes i must insist too i am a crestin and i never ever saw piramids suns and eye balls in a crestin church.
But i did see them on the dolar bill.
One that sustains that he go's there and religion is really just of what he learned on the out side is simply a ferytail.
Show me any cristian church that has the eye and the piramid has a simbol of god.
You wont see that simply cause it does not represent god.
You got older religions way old than the masonari brotherhood and none of them have the piramid and the eye.
It is simply not present for the simple fact that the eye and the piramid comes from egipt from horis the god of the underworld.
Read the enciclopedia.

In response to the above statement by Pepsi78. I posted some things in an earlier post about the dollar bill with no reponse. Again I state that I am not a mason. I have read all of the posts' from page one of this thread and have done some research myself on masons. Everytime I google the name the word conspiracy pops up. Why? Does it really matter if they have secrets or not. What if they worship the devil(which I believe some do but only a select few and not all). Are we to bash these so called evil doers and tear them to pieces with accusation. I believe Our Lord would not have wanted this. Why not just pray for them and love them. It seems that you consider them your enemy and the Bible clearly stated to love your enemies. Just a thought.

Originally posted by pepsi78
No i'm not mad that they dont share their secrets.
I just dont get why they dont admit they have secrets.

We DO admit we have secrets. We've ALWAYS admitted it. Is THAT what's been bothering you? If so, your troubles are over.

plus you debated this but forgot about this
Yes i must insist too i am a crestin and i never ever saw piramids suns and eye balls in a crestin church.

Bully for you. A Masonic Lodge is NOT a Christian Church. So what's the problem, except that you can't get it through your head that Masonry and religion are two different things. I'm a Christian AND I'm a Mason. I'm also a member of the Lions Club, the Down-Town Merchants Association and a couple of other organizations. NONE of which are Christian Churches OR Religions. Apples/Oranges Get it?

But i did see them on the dolar bill.
One that sustains that he go's there and religion is really just of what he learned on the out side is simply a ferytail.

Honestly you're going to have to work on that. I have no idea what you're trying to communicate.

Show me any cristian church that has the eye and the piramid has a simbol of god.
You wont see that simply cause it does not represent god.

Maybe not to Christianity. Not everyone is a Christian. Why can't it represent God to someone? Fact of the matter is, it can represent ANYTHING a person wants it to. YOU'RE the one who thinks it's evil....apparently not everyone shares this view.

You got older religions way old than the masonari brotherhood and none of them have the piramid and the eye.

So???

It is simply not present for the simple fact that the eye and the piramid comes from egipt from horis the god of the underworld.
Read the enciclopedia.

Ah! There you have it. (some) encyclopedia says it...therefore it's correct. [shrug]

And now i ask you, really have you seen piramids and eyes and suns in crestin churches cause i havent.

You've obviously never been to the Downtown Presbyterian Church in Nashville, TN. Beautiful building...Egytian Revival. Here's the link. Take the virtual tour. You'll even see the winged Sun (I'm sure you'll tell us about him and sun-worship and evil) over the Altar

www.dpchurch.com...

So, YES. I HAVE seen pyramids and eyes in a Christian Church (Not just on-line...I've attended that Church)

You clame you go there with what you know from out side of the masonari has a religion and that masonari does not do religion.

Uhm....HUH???

But again i am telling you i my self havent seen churces that have piramids eyes and suns painted on the walls or has simbols in the curch.
In fact i never saw in a single curch and i have visited alot of them
piramids with eyes on them.

You just don't comprehend, do you? Just because YOU have never seen it..or it doesn't appear in a Church....it's wrong? Says you. Open your mind a bit pepsi.

Further there are cristian religions that are way older than the masonari brotherhood.

Actually there's only ONE Christian religion, right? Or have you come up with your own? And yes, Christianity is older than organized Freemasonry.

It's also older than the Rotary Club, does that mean Rotary is bad? Guess what buck-o...Judiasm is OLDER than Christianity....you gonna' convert to Judiasm? (Not that I have anything against it, but I'm sure you probably do)

So there is a problem with the crestin religion and piramids and eyes cause they dont coexist. It is only fair to asume than the eye filosofy and the piramid and the sun must come separate from there has a teaching and as long that it represents some god has a simbol it becomes religon.

WRONG! It only "becomes religion" if you WORSHIP it. Masons do NOT...do NOT...do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT worship pyramids or the All-Seeing Eye. We worshop God. Period.

The piramid and the eye is thot there has a religion and it does not apear in any cristian curch.

You've said that several times. See the link to the Presbyterian Church above. I think the Presbyterians (good Calvinists that they are) would take exception to you saying they're not Christian....

So this indicates that masonary is a religion.

Only in your narrow-mind. Masonry (note there's not a second "a") is NOT a religion.

And you all come here and say that no we get the religios stuff from out side has a religion and we dont add any thing or belive in any thing else.
Pffffff what a ridicules clame.

Once again... HUH?????

Maybe you would like me to add what the eye means.
I would gladly quote it out for you

If you quote it, you're getting it from another source. If that source is not Masonic...it's NOT what the eye means to Masons. Plain and simple. Someone else may say it means something else...and it MAY mean something else to them. But it has a very specific meaning to Masons. So quote away and let others do your thinking for you. But what you're saying is NOT the Masonic meaning of the All-Seeing Eye.

this is why i think it's a secret

Well...I'm glad we got THAT cleared up.

Thanks for playing.

sheesh!

senrak you dont make any sence has u'r felow masons i must admit are more specific and debate things much better

Originally posted by pepsi78
senrak you dont make any sence has u'r felow masons i must admit are more specific and debate things much better

I'm trying to get down the the bare essentials because it's the root of your obvious problem.

You think that certain symbols CANNOT symbolize God, just because you've never seen them in a Christian Church. Does THAT make sense?

In fact I SHOWED you a Christian Church that's FULL of those symbols...and yet you say I don't make any sense?

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You're hilarious pepsi...hilarious.






[edit on 25-10-2005 by senrak]

what i was tryng to say is that you learned that there and not out side the masonery you might ask what thing i will say the piramid and the eye do you understand now?
Has you could not pick it up before you enterend the masonery cause you do not have it the crestin religion.

And you guys quote we dont learn religion there everything we get we get out side the masonery has religion before we join.

And i would say the piramid and the eye epecialy represents god.
any simbol that represents god, gods and are thot what they mean is done with religion has you belive god represents the eye , religion teaches you of the simbols signs etc.
i hope you understand my point now

Originally posted by pepsi78
what i was tryng to say is that you learned that there and not out side the masonery you might ask what thing i will say the piramid and the eye do you understand now?

Not true at all. I remember seeing the "all-seeing eye" and being told it represented the ever-watchful eye of God when I was a CHILD...LONG before I became a Mason at 21. Maybe it would help educate you if you'd read this page "There's No Sin in Symbols" (Sorry this is the cached page...the supreme Council's page seems to be down right now...probably a Masonic conspiracy)

64.233.187.104...:xYoSfGyYb7kJ:www.srmason-sj.org/web/SRpublications/symbols.htm+no+sin+symbols&hl=en

Has you could not pick it up before you enterend the masonery cause you do not have it the crestin religion.

Nope. Knew it before I was an adult...recognized it the first time I saw it in a Masonic degree.

And you guys quote we dont learn religion there everything we get we get out side the masonery has religion before we join.
And i would say the piramid and the eye epecialy represents god.

The pyramid doesn't represent God. Why would you say that? Only the eye itself.

any simbol that represents god, gods and are thot what they mean is done with religion has you belive god represents the eye , religion teaches you of the simbols signs etc.

Not really. There are a lot of people who believe in God who aren't religious at all.

senrak we can argue days about this matter
but for now i am just going to rest and wach discovery
just seat back and see the wonders of cable tv
but we are going to talk about it tomorow
The seing eye is a belif you got from there and not before you joined
at least admit to that it would mean that all masons got the all seeyng eye
belif before tehy joined and you cant speak for everyone of them and most likely they didint so some learn it there it's implemented has a religion
cause it teaches god.
it's not like you learn about the eye in a regular church .

Originally posted by pepsi78
senrak we can argue days about this matter

actually no. I've grown quite weary of it. You believe what you want to believe. It doesn't matter to me...or any Mason really.

but for now i am just going to rest and wach discovery
just seat back and see the wonders of cable tv

Yes, it's incredible isn't it?

but we are going to talk about it tomorow

The seing eye is a belif you got from there and not before you joined
at least admit to that

So you're calling me a liar? I told you I'd seen it before I EVER became a Mason. What of it?

it would mean that all masons got the all seeyng eye
belif before tehy joined
and you cant speak for everyone of them

Illogical

and most likely they didint so some learn it there it's implemented has a religion
cause it teaches god.

It doesn't TEACH God....it SYMBOLIZES God. A Cross doesn't TEACH Christ...it represents Christianity.

it's not like you learn about the eye in a regular church .

There you go again. Bringing a Church into it...when Freemasonry is NOT a Church...regular or irregular.

Two different things.

You really don't get it pepsi....too bad.

Originally posted by intrepid
Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition

re·li·gion (plural re·li·gions)


noun
Definitions:

1. beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

2. system: an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine

3. personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by.

Bold mine. That sounds like Masonry to me, beliefs, values, attitudes someone lives by?. No God mentioned. No faith mentioned.

Maybe Masonry CAN be called a religion in this context.

It’s been covered before (ad nauseam), but I’m compelled to address the issue of whether Freemasonry is a religion. From the perspective of the Grand Lodges throughout the world, Masonic philosophers, and the Brethren that contribute to this forum, it is not. This is based upon the experience of being a member of the fraternity, and the teachings. A system of morals and values? Absolutely, but let's look at the egg, before the chicken:

The Landmarks of Freemasonry are quite clear regarding religion:

Albert G. Mackey
LANDMARK NINETEENTH A belief in the existence of God as the GRAND ARCHITECT of the universe, is one of the most important Landmarks of the Order. It has been always deemed essential that a denial of the existence of a Supreme and Superintending Power, is an absolute disqualification for initiation. The annals of the Order never yet have furnished or could furnish an instance in which an avowed atheist was ever made a Mason. The very Initiatory ceremonies of the first degree forbid and prevent the possibility of so monstrous an occurrence.

LANDMARK TWENTIETH Subsidiary to this belief in God, as a Landmark of the Order, is the belief in a resurrection to a future life. This Landmark is not so positively impressed on the candidate by exact words as the preceding; but the doctrine is taught by very plain implication, and runs through the whole symbolism of the Order. To believe in Masonry, and not to believe in a resurrection, would be an absurd anomaly, which could only be excused by the reflection, that he who thus confounded his belief and his skepticism, was so ignorant of the meaning of both theories as to have no rational foundation for his knowledge of either.

LANDMARK TWENTY-FIRST It is a Landmark, that a "Book of the Law" shall constitute an indispensable part of the furniture of every Lodge. I say advisedly, a Book of the Law, because it is not absolutely required that everywhere the Old and New Testaments shall be used. The "Book of the Law" is that volume which, by the religion of the country, is believed to contain the revealed will of the Grand Architect of the universe. Hence, in all Lodges in Christian countries, the Book of the Law is composed of the Old and New Testaments; in a country where Judaism was the prevailing faith, the Old Testament alone would be sufficient; and in Mohammedan countries, and among Mohammedan Masons the Koran might be substituted. Masonry does not attempt to interfere with the peculiar religious faith of its disciples, except so far as relates to the belief in the existence of God, and what necessarily results from that belief. The "Book of the Law" is to the speculative Mason his spiritual Trestle-board; without this he cannot labor; whatever he believes to be the revealed will of the Grand Architect constitutes for him this spiritual Trestle|-|board, and must ever be before him in his hours of speculative labor, to be the rule and guide of his conduct The Landmark, therefore, requires that a "Book of the Law," a religious code of some kind, purporting to be an exemplar of the revealed will of God, shall form in essential part of the furniture of every Lodge.

Landmarks Of Freemasonry

Please note that according to Landmark Nineteen, that faith is a requirement to join the order.

Please note that according to Landmark Twenty, that belief in resurrection is considered a forgone conclusion… That no Candidate would be so suspect in their faith, as to not embrace this philosophy.

Please note that according to Landmark Twenty One, that Freemasonry will not interfere with the faith of it’s members.

Freemasons meet and “work” on the Level, that is that regardless of social status, religious faith, or past acclaim, all men are equal in the eyes of the Brethren, and in the eyes of God. Men of all faiths are welcome to the fraternity, and coexist in harmony. The thought that men of faith, whether varied, or homogeneous could be coerced into abandoning that which they have proclaimed is ludicrous. Only an individual fragile in their own core beliefs could fathom such a conversion, and speaks not of Freemasonry, but of their own frailties.

When I stand in Lodge prayer, it is no different than a prayer preceding a sporting event, a meeting, or a group dinner… Words are spoken, yet each individual is bound by their individual belief, and find comfort within their own heart. To equate such an undertaking to a religion, to imply that there some form of subversion on a grand scale is foolhardy. Men of Freemasonry come from all walks of life, ages, intelligence, social strata, religious dispositions… To suggest that there is a “magic bullet” to overcome all these variables and to supplant a man’s indigenous faith is tantamount to the indictment of every fiber of character possessed. It is sheer folly, and defies logic.

In conclusion, accept Freemasonry for what it is, a fraternity, a system of teaching morals and values to individuals already prepared to learn them.

This has gotten really entertaining , but I'd still welcome anyone to respond to my last full post regarding masonry and religious content.

My post is at the top of page 21:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

(Just ignore the "eyeball" stuff at the beginning; a poorly developed segway.)

[edit on 25-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
This has gotten really entertaining

, but I'd still welcome anyone to respond to my last full post regarding masonry and religious content.

I don't have time right now but I already planned to respond in depth tomorrow... stand by...

2nd hand isnt it clear that their forming a opinion their helping each other
to get celan away.
The only problem is that the arguments that thei bring are too light and does not clear out the problems.

To say that all masons learn of the all seeing outside of the free masonari
has senrak says all not only one ore two it is a ridicules clame.

The eye stuff is thot there has a belife and it is told to them that it represents god and it's not done out side it's done in the masonari.

For one to embace the eye has god it is clear that this is religion.

Talk about evil

The Scottish Rite Third-Degree Master Mason oath
(emphasis added)

This commits the oath-taker to commit murder, if necessary:

I do promise and swear upon the Holy Bible(sounds religios to me) never to reveal where I have received this degree . . . and in failure of this I consent to have my body opened perpendicularly and to be exposed for eight hours in the open air, so that the venomous flies may eat my entrails, my head to be cut off and put on the highest pinnacle of the world, and I will always be ready to inflict the same punishment on those who shall disclose this degree and break this obligation. So may God help and maintain me. Amen.

end of oath
---------------------
And i would say there as some pretty big secrets there if that guy is about to stay hours opend

Pspesi, you wouldn't mind trotting over to the Lucifer in Masonry thread and answering my little question, would you?

I appreciate it!

TC

Originally posted by pepsi78
To say that all masons learn of the all seeing outside of the free masonari
has senrak says all not only one ore two it is a ridicules clame.

I think I've figured out your problem pepsi (well, at least one of them)

You can't read English any better than you write it. I NEVER said "all" Freemasons learn of the All-Seeing Eye outside Freemasonry. I said I learned about it long before I was a Mason. Try re-reading my posts. Hire an interpreter...perhaps that will help you better comprehend.

The eye stuff is thot there has a belife and it is told to them that it represents god and it's not done out side it's done in the masonari.
For one to embace the eye has god it is clear that this is religion.

It's only clear to you. In fact...that whole garbled mess you typed is probably only clear to you.

I give up. I've got much better things to do than battle with you.

a freemason giving up

I may be a 30 degree mason testing you

Originally posted by pepsi78
This commits the oath-taker to commit murder, if necessary:

The obligations (and BTW that doesn't sound to me like one of our obligations; the wording just doesn't sound consistent with what I have seen/heard so far), are symbolic, and everyone knows that.

This dates from a time when to reveal the fact that you were a Mason was a death sentence, and Masons had to be sure they could trust a man to keep his word. Also, in light of the Inquisition and the brutal tactics they used to “purify” heretics, or even to coax a confession to heresy, the penalties in the obligations seem quite less severe than they otherwise would.

Before you go on about why the Church hated Masons, it is because the Masons worked for the Church for a long time, building cathedrals and palaces. When the cathedral building was drawing to a close, the Church realized that they had no real power over the Masons, who until then had been the “go-to guys,” and we all know how the Church hated not being in complete control. If they couldn’t subdue a man (or group of men), they simply accused him of heresy, tortured and killed him (or them), which is readily apparent to any student of history.

It does not matter that it was in the past history can repeat it's self has for the curch i dont pay much atention to the curch has i think of it just religion and doctrine if i need god i can find him with out going it to a church.
And now i ask you in the bible says do not make icons simbols of heavens or god and it states in the bible that it really rong to do that.
It does not say that you have to it in order to be rong it says not to make any simbols icons out god and heaven.
How do you explain the eye ball it is a simbol of god isnt it?

Originally posted by pepsi78
It does not matter that it was in the past history can repeat it's self has for the curch i don't pay much atention to the curch has i think of it just religion and doctrine if i need god i can find him with out going in to a church.
And now i ask you in the bible it says do not make icons simbols of heaven or god and it states in the bible that it is really rong to do that.
It does not say that you have to pray to it in order to be rong it says not to make any simbols icons out of god and heaven.
How do you explain the eye ball it is a simbol of god isnt it?

A few ajustments so u'r felow mason does not pick up on my sucky eanglish