Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

I'm going to rest on this because there is no reason to argue about this.
It is your opinion that we dont know and it's not the right way has we same the same.
Piramid the eye and the sun is a thing that you belive brings enightment
the sun is holy so it iluminates you blah blah blah i have a diffrent opinion
it's not cause i dont know is cause i have a diffrent opinion.
I BELIVE THE EYE IS EVIL AND DOES NOT REPRESENT GOD
And it's my opinion and my god given right.
It simple for me the eye for me has to do with egipt and with the gods of egipt and nothing to do with our god.
The eye of horis the god of the dead the god of the underworld.
So keep parayng to that eye that is on the piramid and wait for the light to come for that is what you think it will give.
It is very clear to me the enciclopedia describes it very clear IT IS THE EYE OF THE GOD OF THE UNDERWORLD.
But every one is to belive what they want as long as they dont control or
pose any danger to any one.
Control is a very serios thing and it takes freedom away.
Has i can see you got piramids eyes and suns all over u'r avarts.

Originally posted by pepsi78
*snippity do da*
It simple for me the eye for me has to do with egipt and with the gods of egipt and nothing to do with our god.
*snippity snip*

You are correct that you are entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine.

I however will back my opinion that the "All Seeing Eye" in Masonry represents God's ability to know all and see all...with scripture...

From: bibleontheweb.com...

1 John Chapter 3:

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

To me the above biblical quote says that God is all seeing and all knowing.

The "All Seeing Eye" reminds us that we are always under the observation of The Almighty and to do things pleasing in his sight.

Now I respectfully request that you do some legitmate research on Masonry. Not from pro or anti Masonry material....not from someone who's cousin's sisters brother knew a guy who said.....but legitimate research.
If after you finish you still have the same feelings, then my friend you have made an educated opinion.

No offense, but from your posts you have some glaring misunderstandings of what Masonry is and/or stands for.

I believe that most Masons here would gladly help you with that understanding, but you a) have to ask questions and not make accusations and b) accept the fact that some of the preconcieved notions you have may be incorrect.

I am in no way telling you to take what we have to say at face value. I encourage you to investigate it for yourself.

Who knows after it is all said and done....you might even change your mind.

On a personal note, I am a Christian (have been since the day I was born) and I did not join Masonry blindly.....I (not unlike many others) did exhaustive research before joining. I found that most of the things that people have against Masonry a) founded on wrong information and b) derived from unfounded paranoia.

A prime example, when I told my mother I was going to join the Masons and the Shriners she was in shock, "Oh no, don't join the Masons, the Shriners are a great organization, but not the Masons". "But mom, you have to be a Mason to be a Shriner"......"Oh, but the Masons are bad."

This is a prime example of the misunderstanding of Masonry.

So do your research, as your questions, THEN form your opinion. Just don't go on heresy.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Yes mrjones we dont have a choise do we.
It's really just a matter of time it could be years and i just hope it does not hapen in my life time so i can live my life in peace.

It is clear to me that they have too many objects and words that point negativity and suspicios type.
You ask them about the piramid and the eye and they say it's just a simbol
and they have the nervs to denny and not to asocciate it with the one on the dolar bill wich is basicly the same thing the eye and the piramid has you can see it in their avarts every where and all over the masonari .
I beg you who didint read this to open the enciclopedia and to read on what the sun the piramid and the eye is all about.

Words like temple and altar the word altar apears in their rituals and i'm prety sure what a altar is.

To dress up in white roabs and to go around in circle is very very strange i must say and it points out that it is all about worshiping something and let's not forget the word worsip apears in the ritual.

And to add another thing about the goat they will simply say how wonderfull the goat is and how magic it that is and how the goat has to do with the sun.
I must point out that the goat is a masonic simboal and words like "ride the goat" are aoffen use among them

To me it's very clear the only thing is that i dont really know what we can do about it.
The only thing to hope for is that the one up there is looking at all this.
It is really the only thing that we can hope for has we are too small to do any thing.

Ok, I am new at all of this so please forgive me for any mistakes made.
In responce to the above quote by pepsi78 on the symbols of the dollar bill. I am a strong Christian believer and have read ever post from the first page until the last on all this. I was up all night intrigued by all the conversations and point of views. I will state that I am not a mason or anything like it. I have tried to do research on masonry(please forgive if I mispelled it) However, I have came to the conclusion that the only information I have found is a conspiracies which I found intriguing but also a little far fetched. Now on the dollar we do see the symbol of what you speak. Although I don't like it much either what are we to do. Stop spending money. So if you don't like it then please give to me so that I may use for God. The Bible says that we will be giving the option to take the mark of the beast and it will be on either the right hand or forehead. So with that in mind I don't think we have anything to worry about. All I do know is that our Lord and Savior Jesus(Yeshua), whatever the correct name is will settle it all in the end. For it is He who know the end for the beggining and vice versa. God Bless each and everyone here.

Ok so i would say argue with the guy who made the enciclopedia not with me i didint write this and we all agree that enciclopedia is a valid source.

The egiptian god the sun has he came in the day they would pray to him
on and on or he would bring destruction to them.
How it is described in the enciclopedia he seats on the top of the piramid has an eye waching and it is described has the god of the udnerworld
that rules under the sun and not the creator of the universe.
It is simple you got the piramid on the dolar bill and under the piramid you got a latin sayng translated means new world order
New world order under u'r sign you worship so much it is right near it
What more do you want?
I think you guys have an opinion i have another opinion so this is going no where .

Wait, so the little Triangle thing on the dollar bill is a Mason symbol? I looked at a couple sites and they say guys like George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and other Founding Fathers were Masons. But weren't they christian? How could they be both?

Originally posted by Full Metal
Wait, so the little Triangle thing on the dollar bill is a Mason symbol? I looked at a couple sites and they say guys like George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and other Founding Fathers were Masons. But weren't they christian? How could they be both?

As both a Christian and a freemason I can honestly tell you there is no reason at all why Christians can't be freemasons, with the possible exception of a relatively small group of Christians who would find themselves unable to proselytize as it against the rules.

Most of the arguments I have seen against Christians joining freemasonry on this site (and others) are based on false assumptions. The facts speak for themselves, and the overwhelming majority of the membership in the US and UK regard themselves as Christian, including members of the Clergy!

It's hard to know what to believe sometimes, isn't it, with all these contrary viewpoints.

Is it possible for someone of 18 years old to become a mason? My other halfs cousin said that her son was a mason (he's 18), because, his grandfather was.

I told him it was probably bunk, the reason being is they would want an asset, as in someone who had been established. Who could contribute in wisdom. I highly doubt this kid qualifies as very intelligent

2, does birthright entitle you instant membership? I can't imagine someone just being inducted, even if they were an idiot son. I would imagine it would compromise things...

oh boohoo.

sniffle sniffle, "why do some people have to devote 20 more pages to that which might be termed a 'lie' -but none of us know either way?"

sniffle sniffle.

another masonry thread - YES! -go on axeman, complain how masons are the victims. ....or you can just stop whining already, because we dont have to like you. we dont have to like your secret fraternal orginization. some falsehoods most certainly have been spread about your 2bit secret handshaking boys club. so what?!

lies are spread far and wide about EVERY orginization. stop whining that you dont have enough friends already. you got plenty. they all swore in just like you did. boofrigenhoo.

i apologize for the harsh stance, but i really have no pity for masons - or any of their whinings, except one;

"Ive been hoodwinked" -when a mason actually wakes up to see it, I will sympathize with his pain.

Originally posted by denial28
Is it possible for someone of 18 years old to become a mason? My other halfs cousin said that her son was a mason (he's 18), because, his grandfather was.

I told him it was probably bunk, the reason being is they would want an asset, as in someone who had been established. Who could contribute in wisdom. I highly doubt this kid qualifies as very intelligent

Depends on the jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure some States in the US allow membership at 18. In my jurisdiction it's 21 unless you get a dispensation. There's a guy aged 19 being initiated soon so it does happen.

Freemasonry is not about contributing wisdom, but personal learning and development. In that sense the earlier the better, although the candidate has to be mature enough to understand the lessons, and as we know maturity is not related to physical age

does birthright entitle you instant membership? I can't imagine someone just being inducted, even if they were an idiot son. I would imagine it would compromise things...

It has no effect positively or negatively. The son of a mason is called a Lewis and has certain minor privileges when it comes to joining. Otherwise anyone can join as long as they are of 'mature age, sound judgement and strict morals'. And of course have a pre-existing belief in a Supreme Being and are willing to continue that belief after joining.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Ok so i would say argue with the guy who made the enciclopedia not with me i didint write this and we all agree that enciclopedia is a valid source.

It might be helpful if we knew what encyclopedia you are referring to....give us some references...you've sited this "unknown" encyclopedia many times throughout this thread, but it is hard for us to understand where you're coming from unless we can read/see it for ourselves.

Originally posted by Full Metal
Wait, so the little Triangle thing on the dollar bill is a Mason symbol? I looked at a couple sites and they say guys like George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and other Founding Fathers were Masons. But weren't they christian? How could they be both?

The vast majority of Masons are Christians. Most of the remainder are Jews, although there are a few Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist members, especially in Turkey and India.

Both Washington and Franklin were Masons. Franklin was, in fact, Provincial Grand Master of Pennsylvania, meaning he was the nominal leader of Freemasonry in that state. Franklin was not a Christian, but was a Deist. Washington was probably more Deist than Christian, although he attended church regularly with Martha, who was a devout Christian.

Originally posted by denial28
Is it possible for someone of 18 years old to become a mason? My other halfs cousin said that her son was a mason (he's 18), because, his grandfather was.

I told him it was probably bunk, the reason being is they would want an asset, as in someone who had been established. Who could contribute in wisdom. I highly doubt this kid qualifies as very intelligent

2, does birthright entitle you instant membership? I can't imagine someone just being inducted, even if they were an idiot son. I would imagine it would compromise things...

Any man of full age, of good character, and who believes in and honors God, may become a Mason. "Full age" is determined by each Grand Lodge. Some require that candidates for membership be 21 years old, while others require 18. In more and more cases, we see Grand Lodges changing from 21 to 18.

It is necessary that candidates be of at least average intelligence in order to learn the work necessary to progress to being Master Masons. However, it certainly isn't required that they be geniuses...just regular Joes who want to participate in the world's oldest and largest fraternity, and serve their communities while doing it.

Originally posted by lost
oh boohoo.

sniffle sniffle, "why do some people have to devote 20 more pages to that which might be termed a 'lie' -but none of us know either way?"

sniffle sniffle.

Ah, Lost. I remember you... it’s been a while; apparently not long enough...

another masonry thread - YES! -go on axeman, complain how masons are the victims.

....or you can just stop whining already, because we dont have to like you. we dont have to like your secret fraternal orginization.

So the people being lied about aren’t the victims? I don’t see your logic there...

BTW, I never asked you to like me or my fraternity.

some falsehoods most certainly have been spread about your 2bit secret handshaking boys club. so what?!

So I’d like to see a stop put to it. I know that will never happen, but I can do my part, and I don’t need permission or even participation from you to do it.

On a side note, why all the animosity toward Masons? Have you been wronged or oppressed or otherwise bothered by Masons? What reason do you have to hate them, other than just to have someone to hate?

lies are spread far and wide about EVERY orginization. stop whining that you dont have enough friends already. you got plenty. they all swore in just like you did. boofrigenhoo.

I know I have plenty of friends, even before I was a Mason; never said I didn’t. For that matter the only whining I hear right now is coming from you.

i apologize for the harsh stance, but i really have no pity for masons - or any of their whinings, except one;

"Ive been hoodwinked" -when a mason actually wakes up to see it, I will sympathize with his pain.

You really have no idea what you are talking about, dude.

[edit on 10/24/05 by The Axeman]

Masonry is misunderstood. How can this be???
Masonry killed my baby.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
Welcome to the freak show.
Is it a religion?
YES!
NO!
Sticks and stones may break my bones...
The maps contain hidden messages!
Hi-ho Brother-man
Take a hike Ike.
Boy are you stoopid.
This carousel makes me dizzy.
Who is this god-person anyway?
God created everything. Therefore he created evil. Evil is of god.
Really?
I think not. I think naught. Pyramids ARE salty though.

[edit on 24-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts

Masonry is misunderstood. How can this be???

Masonry killed my baby.

Neither a borrower nor a lender be.

Welcome to the freak show.

Is it a religion?

YES!

NO!

Sticks and stones may break my bones...

The maps contain hidden messages!

Hi-ho Brother-man

Take a hike Ike.

Boy are you stoopid.

This carousel makes me dizzy.

Who is this god-person anyway?

God created everything. Therefore he created evil. Evil is of god.

Really?

I think not. I think naught. Pyramids ARE salty though.

Hahahaha...

For that, you get my last vote.

You have voted 2nd Hand Thoughts for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Thanks Axeman. Just trying to lighten things up with some "social commentary". Besides, everyone likes smilies!

I know some of your ideas and opinions differ on some topics from my own but who wants everyone to agree anyway?

I wasn't pointing fingers at any particular post on this LONG thread. But, it has reached the point of no return which usually includes one refering to another as "DUDE".

This thread was doomed from the get-go but it reminds me how some members get so many darned points!

Man.. long thread. Been quiet lately because I'm in the process of reading up on some stuff. Interesting what Golfie said in his last post about the "all seeing eye" being of God. (And citing some scripture to 'substantiate' this claim) No offense to Golfie but just because it says in the Bible that God is "all seeing" as you say does not automatically mean that the eye of horus is of God.

The most interesting thing to me about freemasonry is the way it tries to 'distance' itself from being a religion when in reality its really more of a religion than any of you could comprehend. Think about it: freemasonry claims to help better 'men' by 'assisting' them down -their- 'chosen' path even if it means using their "own" chosen 'spirituality' What about the path that God wants you to take? (This is laid out CLEARLY in the scripture) Think about this very carefully. God makes it VERY clear in scripture not to adopt "mans" way in spritual growth but to cleave onto every -word- that comes from the HIS mouth. (Going further, Jusus makes it perfectly clear that HE is the ONLY REAL TRUTH) I'm sticking to my guns on this one. The word of the Bible is -the- final authority and I'm sticking to it.

So far(a s far as I'm concerned), freemasonry IS NOT compatible with Christianity. This is according to God's Word.

Many masons may claim that freemasonry has no "sway" on 'members' spirtual paths but they are wrong. (Intentionally or otherwise) There is NO way you can help someone "better" themselves the way freemasonry does and not effect them spritually. This probably does not make sense to alot of you but eventually it will. Let me tell you, I DON'T want to be near ANYONE that 'mislead' God's people in this fashion on judegment day.

I'm reading "Morals and Dogma" now and find it very interesting but I'm not going to let it cloud my knowledge and faith based on the word.


This all really boils down to the fact about whether you REALLY believe that the Bible is God's absolute word and if you are able to "spriritually discern" things of the world.

I've posted this scripture quite a bit and some of you have probably seen it but here it is again.:

1co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth NOT the things of the SPIRIT of GOD: for they are foolishness unto him: NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERENED..

1co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.


1co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


I say this in good spirit but if I were you guys, and if you REALLY want to better yourselves and help others, I would do it through a good Bible based, FULL gospel church. I mean really,, why masonry and not Church? Don't get me wrong, there is corruption in the church on different levels, (I speak in general) but wouldn't you rather belong to an "organization" that has their eyes 'clearly' on God?Believe me It's going to be ALOT easier on the church going people on judgement day then it will be for the ones 'mislead' by the fine "art" of freemasonry.

My next question of all of you.. Why become a mason when you can join a Church?

Nuff' for now.


[edit on 24-10-2005 by TxSecret]

TsX, I'm going to answer this one, keep in mind I'm not a Mason.

You are getting hung up on religion as a system of faith, which it is, ie: Christianity, Islam, etc.

BUT, that is not the only definition of "Religion".

Check out these definitions:

Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition

re·li·gion (plural re·li·gions)


noun
Definitions:

1. beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

2. system: an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine

3. personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by.

Bold mine. That sounds like Masonry to me, beliefs, values, attitudes someone lives by?. No God mentioned. No faith mentioned.

Maybe Masonry CAN be called a religion in this context.

Can we all get along now?

Originally posted by TxSecret
The most interesting thing to me about freemasonry is the way it tries to 'distance' itself from being a religion when in reality its really more of a religion than any of you could comprehend. Think about it: freemasonry claims to help better 'men' by 'assisting' them down -their- 'chosen' path even if it means using their "own" chosen 'spirituality' What about the path that God wants you to take? (This is laid out CLEARLY in the scripture) Think about this very carefully. God makes it VERY clear in scripture not to adopt "mans" way in spritual growth but to cleave onto every -word- that comes from the HIS mouth. (Going further, Jusus makes it perfectly clear that HE is the ONLY REAL TRUTH) I'm sticking to my guns on this one. The word of the Bible is -the- final authority and I'm sticking to it.

As you probably appreciate, freemasonry doesn't have its own 'spirituality' in this context; it relies of the spirituality of the member's pre-existing beliefs. So for the Christian, freemasonry explicitly instructs us to follow Christ's teachings. I can't believe you'd have a problem with that part.

Is the difficulty here that freemasonry doesn't pro-actively bring non-Christians to Christ?

Originally posted by Trinityman
As you probably appreciate, freemasonry doesn't have its own 'spirituality' in this context; it relies of the spirituality of the member's pre-existing beliefs.

Good start, what DOES Masonry advocate?