U.S. forces rape, abuse and torture female Iraqi detainees - Including a woman in her 70's!

Originally posted by C0le
Different times.

Yes, we had terrorists liveing less than 200 miles away from us, we had russians across the water and we had an island to defend against a country on the other side of the planet!!
Tell me how is it any diffrent?

Hmm WTC Bombed for the first time killed 6, injured some 1000
U.S.S Cole gets bombed 17 Sailors killed, 39 injured
Two U.S embassies bombed klling some 200, and injuring some 1000
9/11 4 Aircraft hijacked, Pentagon, WTC attacked.. I think we all know the death count here.

So let me see one problem and the stratagey's useless?
9/11 was caused by poor leadership, not wether you were at peace or not.

Well first off alot of terrorists from that region are flooding into iraq, to fight our military, Our military in turn kills future potential attackers which could come here, to the U.S

Wait wait, your saying because we now are killing the "terrorists" its ok but there wasnt any at the start?
Basically saying any means meets any end.

Saddam was given a chance to go into exile before the war and live out the rest of his days like a king in whatever country that would take him.

Realy, thats why he was found in a hole....

Sounds like a plan.

Yeah also sounds like genocide but if thats ok with the US then hey it must be ethically right!

Originally posted by devilwasp

Yes, we had terrorists liveing less than 200 miles away from us, we had russians across the water and we had an island to defend against a country on the other side of the planet!!
Tell me how is it any diffrent?

When you can tell me what the major diff is between the russian threat and the current terrorist threat is, i might just talk to you about this.

So let me see one problem and the stratagey's useless?
9/11 was caused by poor leadership, not wether you were at peace or not.

Clinton sure did a bad job didnt he?

Wait wait, your saying because we now are killing the "terrorists" its ok but there wasnt any at the start?
Basically saying any means meets any end.

Who said there werent any at the start?

Realy, thats why he was found in a hole....

Saddam was in that hole because saddam didnt take the chance he was given before the war started.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by C0le]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
The version I mentioned, I heard on the TV news. Weather he was shot in the back or in the head still makes him a dead man and another victim of radical Islam. My post would not have changed much. You must be pretty desperate to attack me for you to sink so low with the diatribe you launched here.

Get your facts straight. I keep hearing from you lot that "This is a warzone" and that "you must expect civilians to get killed in a war". Well, This is a warzone, and this victim (working for an occupying force) must have know the dangerous risks he took by being there. While it's sad, it does not surprise me any more than if a .50 cal mounted on a hummer mowed down a family approaching a checkpoint. And, my diatribe? I don't think I could ever reach the depths of your racism and hatred. I'm not worried.

If I make a mistake, feel free to correct me Cargo,

That's a full time job here. I don't have that kind of time.

but don't let your hatred of me cloud what little (if any) common sense you have left.

Compared to the inferiority complex vaccum in your head?

[edit on 23-4-2005 by cargo]

Compared to the inferiority complex vaccum in your head?

What do personal insults like this add to the conversation? Maybe to get the thread locked, is all, when IMO it deserves a warn.

Originally posted by C0le
When you can tell me what the major diff is between the russian threat and the current terrorist threat is, i might just talk to you about this.

There was none, since russians planned to use similar tactics.
Also I notice you didnt comment on the actual terrorist threat that STILL exists.

Clinton sure did a bad job didnt he?

Yeah considering it was bush that was in command.....I think we have discovered your hate.

Who said there werent any at the start?

There was the same level as say isreal...
If we are going to justify invadeing a country on the basis of haveing a small number of terrorists in it then why didnt you start much closer to home like mexico!

Saddam was in that hole because saddam didnt take the chance he was given before the war started.
[edit on 23-4-2005 by C0le]

Ok thank you for your opinion and "view".

Originally posted by devilwasp

The russians had something called restraint, thats something these terorists dont and never have had, i highly doubt MAD could be insured with people like binladen.

Yeah considering it was bush that was in command.....I think we have discovered your hate.

Hate? hardly, its a simple fact that all events i listed save 9/11 happened during clintons term.

There was the same level as say isreal...
If we are going to justify invadeing a country on the basis of haveing a small number of terrorists in it then why didnt you start much closer to home like mexico!

All though its a bit off from what your saying, our borders suck and im sure we have a few terrorists in mexico who are or have came into the u.s, Sadly the liberals dont want to "offend" the mexicans, and neither does bush, this is one area where i feel hes an idiot.

Ok thank you for your opinion and "view".

Opinion? View?


news.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.usatoday.com...
www.cnn.com...

[edit on 23-4-2005 by C0le]

Originally posted by C0le
The russians had something called restraint, thats something these terorists dont and never have had, i highly doubt MAD could be insured with people like binladen.

They wouldnt show restraint.

Hate? hardly, its a simple fact that all events i listed save 9/11 happened during clintons term.

I was mainly focussing on 9/11 because that was the hardest hitting one.
Also being at war or peace wouldnt change the deaths of those men and women.

All though its a bit off from what your saying, our borders suck and im sure we have a few terrorists in mexico who are or have came into the u.s, Sadly the liberals dont want to "offend" the mexicans, and neither does bush, this is one area where i feel hes an idiot.

Wait, can you show me links of liberals atually saying this?

Ok thank you for your opinion and "view".

Opinion? View?


news.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.usatoday.com...
www.cnn.com...

[edit on 23-4-2005 by C0le]
Ok would you trust a forign and very hostile countries intelegence commander when he says, "you will be ok."

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by C0le
All though its a bit off from what your saying, our borders suck and im sure we have a few terrorists in mexico who are or have came into the u.s, Sadly the liberals dont want to "offend" the mexicans, and neither does bush, this is one area where i feel hes an idiot.

Yep, Bush betrayed all us conservatives who voted him in. He moved to the left after the election and left us behind...

Max

Originally posted by LA_Maximus

Originally posted by C0le
All though its a bit off from what your saying, our borders suck and im sure we have a few terrorists in mexico who are or have came into the u.s, Sadly the liberals dont want to "offend" the mexicans, and neither does bush, this is one area where i feel hes an idiot.

Yep, Bush betrayed all us conservatives who voted him in. He moved to the left after the election and left us behind...

Max

well, put it this way, bush and his corprate buddies like low wage pays, if the border is closed there will be no more low wage pays

well, the moto was for the people, by the people, to the people.
now it is for the corporations, by the corporations, to the corporations.

big business is raping america apart.

Got a reliable source?

Originally posted by jsobecky

Compared to the inferiority complex vaccum in your head?

What do personal insults like this add to the conversation? Maybe to get the thread locked, is all, when IMO it deserves a warn.

A perceived insult wont lock a thread, when has that ever happened? I've never had a warn, so if it is deemed worthy of one then I'll wear it.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Yep, Bush betrayed all us conservatives who voted him in. He moved to the left after the election and left us behind...

Watch for an embargo on China in the near future as it is officially sized up as the enemy. Watch now as the Republicans pave a path to below minimum wage heaven for illegal mexican workers in an attempt to alleviate the embargo placed on trade between America and China by creating Americas very own sweatshop army. And watch America's closest ally in the pacific go about the task of choosing between an ally on the other side of the world (whose days may or may not be numbered), and a trading partner who is a next door neighbour.

Bush was never right or left. It is all a huge excercise in divide and conquer. The Democrats are just a stage left, and exited that way during the elections. But seeing as Bush leaving Americans behind is something we can all agree on, let's run with that.




[edit on 23-4-2005 by cargo]

So.... The Governments corrupt.... nothing new there.......so, who wants to start the revolution early? Just Kidding. Really. (the government monitors this site)

Edit: DontTreadOnMe, you can't get me!!!! Not a one-liner!!!!

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Kushi_Master]

Im an American and Radical islam has attacked and killed my countrymen again and again and again. Maybe 9/11 was not such a big deal for you Mr Wang, but it was a call to war for us Americans.

We can't afford to see Omaha, Houston and Chicago have a 9/11 event like NYC did. We're not gonna wait around like sheep and "hope" Al Qaeda has a change of heart.

The white gloves are off now and we are stomping terrorist punks all over the world, we have radical Islam by the nose and we're kicking them in the a**!! If you watch American NFL, you'll see that a good Offence is the best Defence. The governments that supported radical Islam are ether gone or on the ropes....worrying about Americas next move.

The war will be going on for some time, so get used to it......we're not finished yet, until Iran, Syria and North Korea goes down.

I hope I answered your question Mr Wang

Maximu§

So tell me you say that radical islam attacks america again and again....but i "thought" that america was at war with iraq.....
Iraq had nothing to do with any attacks on american soil, there has been no link between saddam hussen and osama bin laden, at all!!
So then why are u attacking iraq?

Also you can hardly deal with the war in iraq, and you think your going to take iran, syria and north korea?! LMAOOOOOO
You americans think your invincible......
Next america will take iran....and i promise this alot and i mean alot of american soldiers will die in iran. Iran is not a desert nomadic country like most americans believe, it is a civilized country. Iran is nothing like iraq, and a war with iran will cost america a great deal. America will win the war in iran no doubt about that. But then the military will be so crippled that it would have no chance to take syria or north korea.

Anyway, my point to the thread is that maximus, please look at the links i provided in my last post. America have killed more innocent people than ANY terroist group ever has in history.
A few islam fundamentalist hijacked a few planes and crashed them into one of your buildings. So does that mean that some other islamic nation who the hikackers werent even from! The hijackers were surposedly saudi arabia. Should suffer the bombing and killing of over 20k of its civilians?
I'll put this in a way that you can understand.
If a few australian extremeists went and bombed lets say a building in japan. And it killed a few thousand of japanese civilians, so japan was pissed off about this. So they decided that it will start a war with america and bomb thousands of your houses and buldings, and killing another 20k of american civilians. Is that fair? No.
If the war in iraq is because of 9-11, then aint america warring with the wrong country? Why havent u taking the the extreme islamic country of saudi arabia? There citizens killed 2 thousand of your fellow brothern. So in your list of who america should go to war with you did not even mention saudi arabia....they are a extreme islamic country aswell.
Your government doesnt like to tell you these things, because they are good ol friends with the saudi's.
Yet again if america was a good force in the world spreading "democracy", why dont they go into the african congos and help fight the rebels there? Why doesnt it take down the dictatorships in africa? or in south america?
You wanna know why it doesnt acturly help the countries that are in need of a "democracy"? Because there is no ecnomical gain for it.
Dont be fooled that america has gone to war with iraq because of 9-11.
It has gone to war with iraq because it is going to help the economy, that is the bottem line.

Please maximus, i understand your position. If a building in my city got bombed i would be pretty pissed off and would want some blood aswell.
But iraq did not attack you, it did not even provoke you, it had nothing to do with you. So why are you at war with them? Just use your brain for a second, and think about the situation without being biased from one side of the other.

Our Boys in combat have to see things that many of us havent seen. Most of which I personally would not ever want to see. Dont think that the experience of war doesnt change people. Their job is difffcult and very dangerous.

When it comes to allegations, the current runs both ways, and before we wage a war on words, we should have the facts straight. Then we can put a finger on the offender. War is always ugly, and press can sway the outcome of a war in terms of public perception. I say show me the pregnancies, prove the asaults, and America will investigate as she has already done. We are not afraid to look internally in terms of blame and our actions regarding the prison show that.
Theres always going to be a few good eggs gone bad, and good people with good values shall overcome that corruption.

Lets not shame America over the actions of a few. Lets show that America wants justice for all including Iraqi citizens. If some of our guys are guilty of assalut crimes and such, then justice will come.

Peace

Originally posted by cargo

Originally posted by jsobecky

Compared to the inferiority complex vaccum in your head?

What do personal insults like this add to the conversation? Maybe to get the thread locked, is all, when IMO it deserves a warn.

A perceived insult wont lock a thread, when has that ever happened? I've never had a warn, so if it is deemed worthy of one then I'll wear it.

A single insult may not lock a thread, but I've seen threads locked plenty of times when mods warnings to tone it down have been ignored.

Regardless, insults are uncalled for and unnecessary. End of story.

Suggest this book ...not for the weak/narrow minded of any political persuasion.

"Islam and Terrorism"
By Mark A. Gabriel"

Mark Gabriel is a Christian convert who studied at Al Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt . He has the Islamic equivalent of a Phd, holding all three degrees in Islamic studies. He clearly identifys the difference in Islamic beliefs among the devout ..the mild and the weak practicioners.
Mark Gabriel goes on to say that most muslims are not of the radical persuasion and only want to go about their lives earning a living for thier familys and I agree with him.
However..because of their religious background many are easily put on the string emotionally and quickly by the religious leadership and demonstrates how this is done to a unaware people. This is a concept done here in the west also but by different means because of our different belief systems.
Mark will describe the techniques authorized in war and in peace to use against a enemy of Islam and will also describe what the Sword of Islam means to them. The staging of weapons in a Mosque is standard practice with them. Do not be alarmed by this. And also listen carefully to the silence of what is not said ...in any posting by Islamics.
If you read this book...be very well aware what is meant by a religion of Peace. This is a standard line used by the more radical elements to keep the infidel off guard..and naive. What Mark Gabriel exposes is that true Islam is radical Islam. Most in the west havent a clue. It is fortunate for us that most Muslims are not radicals nor do they practice true Islam. True Islam as taught by Muhammad...Is Jihad. One would do well to learn the three stages of Jihad to see what is coming soon to Europe.
What some of the posters are doing here to the disagreement of many is accurately describing the practices of the more radical groups in Islam in peace and war. The shooting of that helicopter pilot is standard practice. I dont condone this but it is standard practice in handling the Infidel. This is totally contradictory to what we in the west tend to practice and believe. This is why it will come down to a struggle of wills in the end....This clash of cultures, beliefs, and practices. Do not count on the news media..any news media to tell you the truth about the culture, religions, or practices. They will all attempt to put you on a political line like a stringed puppet. The politicians also..will do this diservice.
I have no hatred for muslims or any other group of people. I am aware that the bulk of them just want to earn a decent living for themeslves and thier familys. I have no quarrel with this.
I am however aware of the true nature of Islam as taught by Muhammad.
This will come down to a test of wills..the question in the end is will we in the west have what it takes to finish it...and I mean finish it... You people had better make up your minds ahead of time ...because most of the Muslim peoples have already made up thier minds...those who havent will be set upon by the Imans. This too is standard practice.
Many of us in the west have a cushion ..a safety net...upon which we percieve the world..it is a wonderful safety net provided by others putting their lives and futures on the line for us. This safety net blinds us..to many realities in this world. We think we will never hit the concrete..until things like 9/11 come along and even then some people still sleep.
This war is about oil and energy resources for the future of nations. The last undeveloped source of oil reserves in that area are in Iraq and Iran. Saudi Arabia is pretty well tapped out for new exploration and will only go down hill from here. Obviously many nations want this energy resource..the main one besides America are China and India. No matter what the media claim..this is it.. They are not looking out for you . Get over it.
ATS is one source for alternative views..though some of it is really out there it is a different view from the standard mantra of the main media outlets ..so I read it often and cross check with other sources as there is definitely some food for thought here to tie together some other loose ends.
Thanks Orangetom

Damn orangetom1999, that was a good post...I read it all twice. It will become a battle of wills and the only thing that stands in the way of Radical Islam is.........America.

These Mullahs in Iran KNOW Europe will be swallowed up by Islam within the next 50 years and Asia not far behind that, but America is a strong Christian Nation and we won't bend our necks to the sword of Islam so easily. You need a religion to fight a religion.

Part of it is about Oil and mankind has been fighting for precious resources since day #1..... Hunting grounds...Water....Salt.....land.....Oil. You name it and it has been fought over and the fight goes on.

Wang, I liked your post, but I don't think Bush "LIED" about going into Iraq, cause every intelligence agency in the world thought Saddam had WMD...and he damn well might have. You must admit, things are shaking loose in the Middle-East. Woman can now vote in Afghanistan...sooner or later freedom may become contagious and start spreading on its own.

Max

Maximu§

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I don't think Bush "LIED" about going into Iraq, cause every intelligence agency in the world thought Saddam had WMD...and he damn well might have. You must admit, things are shaking loose in the Middle-East. Woman can now vote in Afghanistan...sooner or later freedom may become contagious and start spreading on its own.

As long as you keep your head in the sand and keep patting yourself on the back, you should be able to sleep at night, safe in the knowledge that none of the most vile and sick acts known to humanity are not being done in your name and the name of American Freedom and Democracy.

Bluster all you want, the rest of the world knows the truth.

I'm sorry, I have to say this. It's not my intent to anger anyone, but I feel the need to say it:

I don't know whether or not this article is genuine or not. For the sake of the topic let's assume it is briefly. Why is it that anytime someone raises an issue related to the war that might tarnish our country's international image, there's always someone who immediately disputes it by saying "The problem with you Muslims is (insert rant)" ?

If we're so squeaky clean then why are we so sensitive to international criticism, especially when we're always dishing out the same kind of criticism ourselves? Do we think we have the moral highground out of all the countries on the face of the Earth or something? Our hands are just a stained with blood and just as dirty as any other nation's. War is brutal, ugly, and terrible, even when it's the United States prosecuting it.

No one in a war is innocent (except of course for the victims caught in the crossfire). A little empathy and humility might go a long way toward preventing them though. No, I'm not one of those people who believes the U.S. is to blame and is subjugating everyone else. I just think we have yet to accept our full measure of responsibility for some of the problems the world faces today, and a good start would be to try to better understand our fellow human beings who don't believe or think the way we do.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
No one in a war is innocent (except of course for the victims caught in the crossfire).

Not so, there is good and bad in this world. The Nazis and Japanese Imperial forces we fought in WW II were far from innocent. They were the aggressors and paid in blood for their crimes.

Its the same with radical Islam...they started it and we're gonna finnish it.


Maximu§