Biden's "Reckless" Decision To Escalate Russia-Ukraine War

a reply to: WeMustCare

Americans voted 2 weeks ago to let Putin have Ukraine,.....

Did they?

I can't recall Trump ever saying he was simply going to 'let Putin have Ukraine'. Could you please provide a link to him actually saying that?

Now I'm no big fan of Trump - nor am I of Biden - but if he can actually put a stop to this senseless war in a matter of weeks without completely selling Ukraine down the river and abandoning them then I will be the first to applaud the man and acknowledge his achievement.

a reply to: Freeborn

Yes Trump said he will end the war in Ukraine, no give Ukraine to Russia.

Trump says he can end the Russia-Ukraine war in one day. Russia’s UN ambassador says he can’t

At a CNN town hall in May 2023, Trump said: “They’re dying, Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. And I’ll have that done — I’ll have that done in 24 hours.” He said that would happen after he met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Russian President Vladimir Putin. And he keeps repeating the claim on the campaign trail.

apnews.com...

a reply to: YouSir

"Of course...now we have a completely different scenario...Where the people of Lugansk...Donetsk...Kherson And Zaporozhye...held referendum's to become sovereign Russian territories..."

Ah, those free and fair referendums.

Not.

a reply to: WeMustCare

"Americans voted 2 weeks ago to let Putin have Ukraine, and refocus on MAGA-PAF"

What all of it?

Did Trump put that on his campaign ticket?

What about what the rest of the free World might have to say about it?

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: vance2
All the blame falls on Vladimir Putin. I don't care how you try to frame it, Putin is responsible for anything that happens, since day 1 of his invasion.
And I don't like Biden administration one bit, but this truth is easy.

I don’t fully agree. Ultimately, yes Putin started the war with Ukraine. Now that we’ve gotten involved and provided weapons, munitions and money we have some accountability in the escalation of that war. It’s become a proxy war for the US and UK. The fact the lame duck Biden escalated this war with only a couple of months left in his term is senseless and reckless of this administration.

Russia was already striking into Ukraine with long range missiles.

Levelling the playing field by allowing Ukraine to do the same is not escalation.

Ummm yeah it was when Putin says don’t do it and told the west to stay out of it or we up our game, which is exactly what he’s doing and threatening more. Do I think that’s right or fair…nope. But yes, this administration is making it worse for Ukraine by escalating the war on their behalf. You can pretend we didn’t just escalate the war but we absolutely have.

Do you think the aggressor has a legitimate authority to say what Ukraine can and can't do to defend it self?

Ukraine wanted the missiles and Russia was already attacking with long range missiles.

Providing them is not escalating the conflict, in fact I can't think of a single thing that Ukraine or the west has done that is an actual escalation as Russia has done them first

a reply to: marg6043

Has he ever mentioned just how he might accomplish this?

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: vance2
All the blame falls on Vladimir Putin. I don't care how you try to frame it, Putin is responsible for anything that happens, since day 1 of his invasion.
And I don't like Biden administration one bit, but this truth is easy.

I don’t fully agree. Ultimately, yes Putin started the war with Ukraine. Now that we’ve gotten involved and provided weapons, munitions and money we have some accountability in the escalation of that war. It’s become a proxy war for the US and UK. The fact the lame duck Biden escalated this war with only a couple of months left in his term is senseless and reckless of this administration.

Ummm...no...not true at all...sorry to disagree mister Krusty...the war was started by the eastward expansion of NATO into former USSR states...and the provocations of the US under Obama followed by the coup and color revolution in Ukraine...then 8...(eight)...years of Ukraine shelling the Russian identifying and speaking citizens of the Lugansk and Donetsk provinces...

Further...by the designed failures of the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 ceasefire agreements...whose only purpose according to Angela Merkel...François Hollande...and Petro Poroshenko...was to allow Ukraine to stockpile weapons and systems for a war with Russia...Armed of course by the first Trump administration...and continued under the current pedophile in chief...

That's what started the conflict...as it was designed to do...



YouSir

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: vance2
All the blame falls on Vladimir Putin. I don't care how you try to frame it, Putin is responsible for anything that happens, since day 1 of his invasion.
And I don't like Biden administration one bit, but this truth is easy.

I don’t fully agree. Ultimately, yes Putin started the war with Ukraine. Now that we’ve gotten involved and provided weapons, munitions and money we have some accountability in the escalation of that war. It’s become a proxy war for the US and UK. The fact the lame duck Biden escalated this war with only a couple of months left in his term is senseless and reckless of this administration.

Ummm...no...not true at all...sorry to disagree mister Krusty...the war was started by the eastward expansion of NATO into former USSR states...and the provocations of the US under Obama followed by the coup and color revolution in Ukraine...then 8...(eight)...years of Ukraine shelling the Russian identifying and speaking citizens of the Lugansk and Donetsk provinces...

Further...by the designed failures of the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 ceasefire agreements...whose only purpose according to Angela Merkel...François Hollande...and Petro Poroshenko...was to allow Ukraine to stockpile weapons and systems for a war with Russia...Armed of course by the first Trump administration...and continued under the current pedophile in chief...

That's what started the conflict...as it was designed to do...

YouSir

Gee why would east European countries want to join a organisation to protect them against Russia?

Not like there is any history or Russian aggression towards these countries...

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: YouSir

"Of course...now we have a completely different scenario...Where the people of Lugansk...Donetsk...Kherson And Zaporozhye...held referendum's to become sovereign Russian territories..."

Ah, those free and fair referendums.

Not.

Ummm...Ahhh...because daddy dot gov and the MSM told you so...

Typical...and predictable...and so darn right funnily sad to witness...


Is what it is...



YouSir

a reply to: marg6043

I sincerely hope he achieves this. Though I suspect that if he does it may take a bit longer than one day.
I also think that he genuinely wants to put an end to it and stop all the killing.

The key for me, and far far more importantly the vast majority of Ukrainians, would be what concessions would have to be made to Russia to achieve this.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

There is no escalation from the US or NATO, Putin has waged war on Europe pretty much, while playing the victim.

In the 90s ukraine and the US, NATO, signed an agreement to get rid of their nukes and not worry about nuclear weapons at all and in return and in time of need they'd get help.
Well, I'm pretty sure Putin knew about this, and he went ahead and backed the Dombas separatists, and then broke the Minsk agreements by outright invading Ukraine, and then crys when Urkaine gets help from their allies, and now apparently people are crying about Biden upholding an ally pact.

People who defend Russia have just gobbled up the propoganda, or are willfully being contrarian for the sake of it out of spite for their new hatred of the west, which I'm pretty sure was mostly fueled by Russian trolls and bots running amuck on the internet and Russian paid shills like Tim Fool.

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: YouSir

"Of course...now we have a completely different scenario...Where the people of Lugansk...Donetsk...Kherson And Zaporozhye...held referendum's to become sovereign Russian territories..."

Ah, those free and fair referendums.

Not.

Ummm...Ahhh...because daddy dot gov and the MSM told you so...

Typical...and predictable...and so darn right funnily sad to witness...


Is what it is...

YouSir

As opposed to daddy Putin and the Russian state media.

It is sad to witness.

a reply to: YouSir

So what actually makes you believe those referendums were 'free and fair'?
Because Kremlin funded and approved news outlets told you?
Or because it appeals to your naturally aloof nature and belief that you are more informed than those of a different opinion?

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: vance2
All the blame falls on Vladimir Putin. I don't care how you try to frame it, Putin is responsible for anything that happens, since day 1 of his invasion.
And I don't like Biden administration one bit, but this truth is easy.

I don’t fully agree. Ultimately, yes Putin started the war with Ukraine. Now that we’ve gotten involved and provided weapons, munitions and money we have some accountability in the escalation of that war. It’s become a proxy war for the US and UK. The fact the lame duck Biden escalated this war with only a couple of months left in his term is senseless and reckless of this administration.

Ummm...no...not true at all...sorry to disagree mister Krusty...the war was started by the eastward expansion of NATO into former USSR states...and the provocations of the US under Obama followed by the coup and color revolution in Ukraine...then 8...(eight)...years of Ukraine shelling the Russian identifying and speaking citizens of the Lugansk and Donetsk provinces...

Further...by the designed failures of the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 ceasefire agreements...whose only purpose according to Angela Merkel...François Hollande...and Petro Poroshenko...was to allow Ukraine to stockpile weapons and systems for a war with Russia...Armed of course by the first Trump administration...and continued under the current pedophile in chief...

That's what started the conflict...as it was designed to do...

YouSir

Gee why would east European countries want to join a organisation to protect them against Russia?

Not like there is any history or Russian aggression towards these countries...

Ummm...must have been the ..."Truth...Justice...and the American way"...lie peddled to the emasculated European vassals...

They're so steeped in kept mentality that they still don't see that Good ole Daddy USA is their keeper...and is currently in the process of de-industrializing their countries at the expense of their citizenry...

But don't let reality get in the way of your ideology...


YouSir

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: vance2
All the blame falls on Vladimir Putin. I don't care how you try to frame it, Putin is responsible for anything that happens, since day 1 of his invasion.
And I don't like Biden administration one bit, but this truth is easy.

I don’t fully agree. Ultimately, yes Putin started the war with Ukraine. Now that we’ve gotten involved and provided weapons, munitions and money we have some accountability in the escalation of that war. It’s become a proxy war for the US and UK. The fact the lame duck Biden escalated this war with only a couple of months left in his term is senseless and reckless of this administration.

Russia was already striking into Ukraine with long range missiles.

Levelling the playing field by allowing Ukraine to do the same is not escalation.

Ummm yeah it was when Putin says don’t do it and told the west to stay out of it or we up our game, which is exactly what he’s doing and threatening more. Do I think that’s right or fair…nope. But yes, this administration is making it worse for Ukraine by escalating the war on their behalf. You can pretend we didn’t just escalate the war but we absolutely have.

Do you think the aggressor has a legitimate authority to say what Ukraine can and can't do to defend it self?

Ukraine wanted the missiles and Russia was already attacking with long range missiles.

Providing them is not escalating the conflict, in fact I can't think of a single thing that Ukraine or the west has done that is an actual escalation as Russia has done them first

I already told you that no it’s not right or fair. If you can’t comprehend what else I and others including war strategist and analysts are saying about the US and the UK escalating the war then that’s on you. I’m not going to go back and forth with you on it nor am I going to repeat it. Think what you want about it, we’ll just pretend we haven’t given them billions and billions of dollars and weapons including long range missiles if that makes you feel better.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: WeMustCare

Americans voted 2 weeks ago to let Putin have Ukraine,.....

Did they?

I can't recall Trump ever saying he was simply going to 'let Putin have Ukraine'. Could you please provide a link to him actually saying that?

Now I'm no big fan of Trump - nor am I of Biden - but if he can actually put a stop to this senseless war in a matter of weeks without completely selling Ukraine down the river and abandoning them then I will be the first to applaud the man and acknowledge his achievement.

Based on his (Trump's) meeting with Zelenskyy last month, that's the impression we got. After all, America HAS NO ALLIES, so it's time to direct all resources (our money) towards making our quality of life better. Selfish? Yes. Overdue? Yes.

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: vance2
All the blame falls on Vladimir Putin. I don't care how you try to frame it, Putin is responsible for anything that happens, since day 1 of his invasion.
And I don't like Biden administration one bit, but this truth is easy.

I don’t fully agree. Ultimately, yes Putin started the war with Ukraine. Now that we’ve gotten involved and provided weapons, munitions and money we have some accountability in the escalation of that war. It’s become a proxy war for the US and UK. The fact the lame duck Biden escalated this war with only a couple of months left in his term is senseless and reckless of this administration.

Ummm...no...not true at all...sorry to disagree mister Krusty...the war was started by the eastward expansion of NATO into former USSR states...and the provocations of the US under Obama followed by the coup and color revolution in Ukraine...then 8...(eight)...years of Ukraine shelling the Russian identifying and speaking citizens of the Lugansk and Donetsk provinces...

Further...by the designed failures of the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 ceasefire agreements...whose only purpose according to Angela Merkel...François Hollande...and Petro Poroshenko...was to allow Ukraine to stockpile weapons and systems for a war with Russia...Armed of course by the first Trump administration...and continued under the current pedophile in chief...

That's what started the conflict...as it was designed to do...

YouSir

Gee why would east European countries want to join a organisation to protect them against Russia?

Not like there is any history or Russian aggression towards these countries...

Ummm...must have been the ..."Truth...Justice...and the American way"...lie peddled to the emasculated European vassals...

They're so steeped in kept mentality that they still don't see that Good ole Daddy USA is their keeper...and is currently in the process of de-industrializing their countries at the expense of their citizenry...

But don't let reality get in the way of your ideology...

YouSir

I forgot about the paradise on earth that is Putin's Russia...

a reply to: YouSir

So who told you that those referendums were legit?

Please, lose the condescension?

You can see a full report here:

commonslibrary.parliament.uk...

If you disagree with any of it, please give your reasons. Other than hand waving it away, preferably.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

First off I think you should revisit the definition of ”escalate” then we can go from there.

es·ca·late (ĕs′kə-lāt′) v. es·ca·lat·ed, es·ca·lat·ing, es·ca·lates v.intr. To increase in intensity, extent, or amount: tensions that escalated into violence. v.tr. 1. To increase, enlarge, or intensify: escalated the hostilities in the Persian Gulf.

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: vance2
All the blame falls on Vladimir Putin. I don't care how you try to frame it, Putin is responsible for anything that happens, since day 1 of his invasion.
And I don't like Biden administration one bit, but this truth is easy.

I don’t fully agree. Ultimately, yes Putin started the war with Ukraine. Now that we’ve gotten involved and provided weapons, munitions and money we have some accountability in the escalation of that war. It’s become a proxy war for the US and UK. The fact the lame duck Biden escalated this war with only a couple of months left in his term is senseless and reckless of this administration.

Russia was already striking into Ukraine with long range missiles.

Levelling the playing field by allowing Ukraine to do the same is not escalation.

Ummm yeah it was when Putin says don’t do it and told the west to stay out of it or we up our game, which is exactly what he’s doing and threatening more. Do I think that’s right or fair…nope. But yes, this administration is making it worse for Ukraine by escalating the war on their behalf. You can pretend we didn’t just escalate the war but we absolutely have.

Do you think the aggressor has a legitimate authority to say what Ukraine can and can't do to defend it self?

Ukraine wanted the missiles and Russia was already attacking with long range missiles.

Providing them is not escalating the conflict, in fact I can't think of a single thing that Ukraine or the west has done that is an actual escalation as Russia has done them first

I already told you that no it’s not right or fair. If you can’t comprehend what else I and others including war strategist and analysts are saying about the US and the UK escalating the war then that’s on you. I’m not going to go back and forth with you on it nor am I going to repeat it. Think what you want about it, we’ll just pretend we haven’t given them billions and billions of dollars and weapons including long range missiles if that makes you feel better.

You are confusing comprehension with disagreement.

Why would we pretend that? I am in favour of supporting a democratic country defending itself against an aggressive land grab. We should be giving them more aid.

That doesn't make it escalation when in every single occasion it is Russia doing it first.