WATCH LIVE: US Congress hearing on UFOs, unidentified anomalous phenomena

originally posted by: WeMustCare

originally posted by: WeMustCare
Breaking...

UFO ORDERED SHOT DOWN BY PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN FOUND AND RECOVERED!!!!

Shot down in Feb 2023: www.newsnationnow.com...

One Chinese weapons platform hovered over the USA for 5 days, embarrassing the Biden Administration and the Commander-In-Chief. He overcompensated for his incompetence and embarrassment, by ordering at least 5 things shot down...supposedly all of them man-made and civilian in nature. Let's hope we can avoid Biden starting WWIII before he leaves office in 60 days.

Hmm. I don’t see the Goodyear blimp flying around much these days. Probably grounded until trigger happy Biden is out of office.

a reply to: WeMustCare

I would still like to know what is is all about?

Mystery Drones Swarmed a U.S. Military Base for 17 Days. The Pentagon Is Stumped.

www.wsj.com...

Shooting down balloons?

But we can’t figure this out. Follow them with our own drones? Scramble helicopters? Satellite surveillance.

Man. Something smells bad.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: putnam6
What do you think this phenomenon is or isn't?

If it's not real then what's the motivation for the 6 Congressional witnesses to lie?

Well, now you don't have to ask for an opinion on two of them that were shot down. This information is not opinion or thoughts, it's reality. This doesn't mean I think all UAP are balloons, but, a fair number are. Again, Gofast was an example UAP in the hearings and there's no evidence to say that wasn't also a balloon, it behaved much like a balloon would behave.

Gimbal video wasn't a balloon because if its thermal signature, but the very name "Gimbal" indicates the pentagon is aware the acrobatic illusion results from the gimbal mechanism in the camera pod, and not from any craft performing acrobatic feats.

Yes perhaps but that doesn't address Immaculate Constellation at all...

Here is the document, released 11/13/24:

Immaculate Constellation.PDF

a reply to: putnam6

What do you do with something like this?



How do you even go about confirming it ever really took place?


It reads like a table talk exercise. “ You are in the Eastern sector at mission altitude.” “Surrounded by presumably hostile UAP’s”. “Forced out of the mission area under the escort of the UAPs”

It really doesn’t have an ending? What does “escorted” out of the mission area mean? Into US air space? Where we took no additional actions? Where did the UAP’s go? Did they just land with the F-22 so they could all have lunch together?

originally posted by: putnam6
Yes perhaps but that doesn't address Immaculate Constellation at all...
Here is the document, released 11/13/24:

Immaculate Constellation.PDF

When you post a link with ellipses (...) in it' it's not going to work because the ellipses indicate part of the link is missing and abbreviated to 3 dots. But anyway I found it in an online search, and I tend to agree with Mick West's assessment:

It's an anonymous whistleblower. Right now, there's zero evidence beyond Shellenberger saying that some people told him some things. This could just be Jay Stratton and Lue Elizondo.

I'm not sure whether or not to believe the pentagon spokesperson, but for what it's worth:

Department of Defense spokesperson Sue Gough denied records of the alleged program in a statement to NewsNation Tuesday evening.

"The Department of Defense has no record, present or historical, of any type of SAP called 'IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION,'" she wrote.

So being from an anonymous source, and being unconfirmed or denied by the pentagon, it has even less credibility than Grusch, because at least we know who David Grusch is, and we know he admits he never saw any of the things in his fantastic claims himself. So even if Grusch is telling the truth that people told him or showed him these stories, we have no idea if the stories are true, but I hope we can agree some seem dubious at best. For example:

Grusch claims to have viewed documents reporting a spacecraft of non-human origin had been recovered by Benito Mussolini's government in 1933 and procured by the U.S. in 1944 or 1945 with the assistance of the Vatican and the Five Eyes alliance.

Let's give Grusch the benefit of the doubt for the sake of discussion, and discuss the situation if he's absolutely telling the truth that he did see such a document. Without further corroboration, it doesn't mean anything. Why? Because you can find files in the FBI archives about things that never happened or were hoaxes. For example, look at the Guy Hottel memo, a real FBI document about three flying saucers being recovered in New Mexico around 1950, with non human intelligence occupants.

It's a real document. But, only someone with no critical thinking skills would conclude that the existence of a document claiming three flying saucers occupied by non-human intelligence were recovered means that three flying saucers occupied by non-human intelligence were recovered. I'm not convinced David Grusch has the critical thinking skills to make this kind of realization, when he talks about documents related to Benito Mussolini's government in 1933 etcetera.

Moreover, the most disturbing thing in that "Immaculate Constellation" document to me is this part:

Separately, additional internal records confirm the claims of Mr. Lue Elizondo regarding AATIP/AAWSAP's mission, activities, and findings. Additional documents support the exceptional character and credibility of Mr. Elizondo, These non-public documents include letters of commendation, service award nominations, performance/promotion reviews, archived email chains, and AA TIP/ AA WSAP program briefings which directly corroborate the public statements of Mr. Elizondo.

The reason I find the credibility of Lue Elizondo to be near zero on the UAP topic, is the discussion he had with Mick West about the Gofast UAP. Mick demonstrated using the information on the screen, processed with high school trigonometry, that the object wasn't going any faster than a balloon. Lue and Ryan Graves were on DeLonge's "Unidentified" TV show saying that thing was going 2/3 the speed of sound. West's analysis proves beyond any doubt it wasn't going that fast. So West was trying to engage Elizondo to critique West's analysis and explain why it's wrong if he thinks it's wrong.

Where Elizondo lost all credibility was when he continued to insist it was going fast, and skirted around discussing Mick West's analysis proving it wasn't going fast. If Elizondo wanted to have any credibility, he needed to engage the simple trig West had done, or show some kind of alternate analysis. But he didn't do this so he has zero credibility. That tells me Elizondo is just going to go full speed ahead with unfounded claims, regardless of what the actual facts are.

As for Elizondo being awarded commendations for excellent performance and so on, let's say that's true. His job in counter-intelligence could be described as requiring the skill of being a professional liar. So maybe the commendation really means, he's really good at lying, if lying was part of his job and he was good at his job, no?

In fact how do we know that this document praising Elizondo wasn't written by Elizondo himself? I hope people are not giving this immaculate constellation document any more unwarranted credibility than the guy Hottel memo, but let's be real, we know there are some inthe UFO community who will jump on any opportunity for confirmation bias whether it's true or not. I just hope they are in the minority and that most people can see all the gaslighting we've been exposed to since 2017 for what it is.

Plus, Elizondo continued to be two-faced in the recent hearing. Elizondo has said very clearly that he was never part of the original AAWSAP program, which is true, at least he's honest about that. But yet in the hearings he kept bringing up AAWSAP to try to give legitimacy to his AATIP involvement, pretending it was the same program but he just changed the name when he took over or something. If AATIP was a real funded program, why does Elizondo have to keep bringing up AAWSAP when he talks about it? I agree with this poster, that most people apparently don't seem to realize the contradiction when Elizondo talks about AAWSAP and AATIP:

Errors in Elizondo's UFO book

Most people won't realize that Elizondo not being involved in AAWSAP is a contradiction, because Elizondo only ever uses AATIP when referring to his former project.

The fun thing about this is, AATIP had no budget; it lived off AAWSAP money, which is its claim to officialdom. Anywhere you see "AATIP" officially mentioned, it refers to AAWSAP. See www.metabunk.org... and www.metabunk.org... .

And that's where the book cover is wrong, in my opinion.
If Elizondo wasn't part of AAWSAP, then his AATIP was never an official DoD program.

So that Immaculate Constellation document talking about how credible Elizondo is, when Elizondo continues to gaslight us, completely destroys the credibility of the document for me, and I can't rule out that Elizondo is the author.

Does any of that address Immaculate Constellation?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Yes it does thank you, and make sure you realize Im not a fan of any person or persons who have podcasts and do the interview circuit.

I was trying to post the whole report by quote but it was too large and hurriedly just posted the link, FWIW

So it is all BS testimonies from all 6 witnesses, im fine with that possibility especially with our histories of the JFK assassination and 9/11 commissions it's par course for the "gubmint" inquiries and commission reports

But then why the dog and pony kabuki theater? after 60-plus years of tight-lipped silence from the DoD

Why the release of formerly classified documents?

Sounds like a CYA operation,

makes me wonder would all of this would have happened minus the Chinese Spy ballon flap, and or the adjusting of our radar's sensitivity settings

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: putnam6

What do you do with something like this?

How do you even go about confirming it ever really took place?


It reads like a table talk exercise. “ You are in the Eastern sector at mission altitude.” “Surrounded by presumably hostile UAP’s”. “Forced out of the mission area under the escort of the UAPs”

It really doesn’t have an ending? What does “escorted” out of the mission area mean? Into US air space? Where we took no additional actions? Where did the UAP’s go? Did they just land with the F-22 so they could all have lunch together?

Come on man, you've pulled a paragraph and a half out of a 214-page document.

Respectfully you have to look at the report in conjunction with known eyewitness testimonies.

Not to mention even ARRO admitted most cases have been resolved, but not all. Additionally, it seems the DoD classification of some cases completely contradicts the official ARRO findings. Why would there be such discrepancies on the same event?



I'll try find examples of this, I saw this mentioned on X.com

All it takes is one case out of thousands to be non-military, non-natural phenomena, and non-misidentification, for the theory of it being Non-Human Intelligence to gain more credence.

Funny how Pentagon Spokesperson Susan Gough was there for the ARRO meeting and not one word was spoken, well not publically

originally posted by: putnam6

Come on man, you've pulled a paragraph and a half out of a 214-page document.

I did a quick scan and found something more or less randomly.

originally posted by: putnam6
Respectfully you have to look at the report in conjunction with known eyewitness testimonies.

The above is from the report.

And raises more questions than answers.

originally posted by: putnam6
Not to mention even ARRO admitted most cases have been resolved, but not all.

What cases. We don’t have names, dates, actual locations. From a document full of things that amount to ambiguous ghost stores.

originally posted by: putnam6
Funny how Pentagon Spokesperson Susan Gough was there for the ARRO meeting and not one word was spoken, well not publically

Funny we got two hearings that was nothing but hearsay. That’s not a hearing, it’s a gossip session.