Florida REFUSING to hand Trump shooting suspect Ryan Routh over to the Feds

originally posted by: chr0naut
Fascism and Nazism advertised industries and brands as part of its nationalistic propaganda, and advertised the desirability of in-country manufactured products as sources of national strength. They were entirely capitalist.

You know they had brands and nationalism in the USSR and 1940s, they must have been entirely capitalist too. Except it has nothing to do with socialism itself. Socialism is collective/socialized control of the means of production, effectively state control. Whereas capitalism is privately owned means of production, owned by an individual ALSO; a private.

Marxist socialism is where the workers were in state control, national socialists were the racial group in state control.

From book; Soviet and Nazi economic planning:

“Both governments reorganized industry into larger units, ostensibly to increase state control over economic activity. The Nazis reorganized industry into 13 administrative groups with a large number of subgroups to create a private hierarchy for state control. The state therefore could direct the firms activities without acquiring direct ownership of enterprises. The preexisting tendency to form cartels was encouraged to eliminate competition that would destabilize prices.“

So their private ownership was just state control. Their free market was all state controlled. It wasn’t capitalistic at all.

Donald Trump was once a Democratic Party member from 2001 to 2009. So, I suppose he is a 'leftist' now?

It is mainly the Democratic party that changed. Less so Trump or many other Democrats who are leaving in droves because of the party getting more and more left.

Also Musolini didnt abandon socialism, he abandoned syndicalism a form of socialism which is like 2 drops of water to what fascism is.

No, in practice, and in history, there have been many far-right dictatorial autocratic governments:

Right-wing dictatorships

Anybody can edit Wikipedia, they dont give a definition of what the right means so they can call anything right for that matter. Which they do.

Fact is state control is anti capitalistic its the exact opposite of private ownership of the means of production. And its not extreme right which would mean complete individual freedom and open markets without corporations, or any public control.

What you were describing in your post is centrist capitalist democracy, neither right-wing or left-wing.

Individual freedom, and a high level of private ownership of the means of production are right wing. Always have been right wing.

originally posted by: chr0naut

Fascism and Nazism advertised industries and brands as part of its nationalistic propaganda, and advertised the desirability of in-country manufactured products as sources of national strength. They were entirely capitalist.

Ow and don't take my word for it, here read a letter from a businessman from that time how "entirely capitalistic" and so called opposite of socialism the Nazi's economy was....;

Dear Mr. X. Y.:

This letter will probably be a disappointment to you, but I raust confess that I think as most German businessmen do who today fear National Socialism as rauch as they did Communism in 1932. But there is a distinction. In 1932, the fear of Communism was a phantom; today National Socialism is a terrible reality. Business friends of raine are convinced that it will be the turn of the "white Jews" (which means us, Aryan businessmen) after the Jews have been expropriated. Just when this will happen and the extent to which "Aryan" businessmen will be pillaged depends on the internal struggle within the Nazi party ...

When we consider that Hitler himself came not from the ranks of organized labor, but from the ruined middle dass or the fifth estate, what guarantee have we that he will not make common cause with the bandits whom he has put into uniforms? The difference between this and the Russian system is much less than you think, despite the fact that officially we are still independent businessmen. You have no idea how far State control goes and how much power the Nazi representatives have over our work. The worst of it is that they are so ignorant. In this respect they certainly differ from the former Social-Democratic officials. These Nazi radicals think of nothing except "distributing the wealth." Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories, so that they will have a better understanding of the present economic system.

How can we possibly manage a firm according to business principles if it is impossible to make any predictions as to the prices at which goods are to be bought and sold? We are completely dependent on arbitrary Government decisions concerning quantity, quality and prices for foreign raw materials. There are so many different economic agreements with foreign countries, not to mention methods of payment, that no one can possibly understand them all. Nevertheless Government representatives are permanently at work in our offices, examining costs of production, profits, tax bills, etc. . .

There is no elasticity of prices, sorely needed though it be by businessmen. While State representatives are busily engaged in investigating and interfering, our agents and salesmen are handicapped, because they never know whether or not a sale at a higher price will mean denunciation as a "profiteer" or "saboteur," followed by a prison sentence. You cannot imagine how taxation has increased. Yet everyone is afraid to complain about it. The new State loans are nothing but confiscation of private property, because no one believes that the Government will ever make repayment, nor even pay interest after the first few years. Compared with these new State loans, the bonds issued during the World War were gilt-edged investments.

We businessmen still make sufficient profit, sometimes even large profits, but we never know how much we are going to be able to keep . . . Workers also make a fair living, particularly where the hourly rate has not been changed. A workingman who worked six hours a day before must now work eleven and twelve hours daily. Often his wife and children are also employed so that the family income has considerably increased ....

No free market, totalitarian state control; Ein Reich, Ein Folch, Ein Fuhrer.

a reply to: ElitePlebeian2

2nd
Outstanding

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Announces Executive Order Assigning Attempted Assassination Case to Office of Statewide Prosecutor ‘It is Not in Best Interest to Have Same Federal Agencies Seeking to Prosecute Donald Trump Leading This Investigation’ (Video)

On Sunday night, just hours after a second attempt on President Donald Trump’s life, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis announced that the State of Florida will be conducting its own investigation.

DeSantis posted on X, “The State of Florida will be conducting its own investigation regarding the attempted assassination at Trump International Golf Club.”

“The people deserve the truth about the would-be assassin and how he was able to get within 500 yards of the former president and current GOP nominee.”

WOW ... Desantis really is going for it.
The Feds must be piiiiiiiiiiised off !

originally posted by: FlyersFan
WOW ... Desantis really is going for it.
The Feds must be piiiiiiiiiiised off !

I bet next time around DeSantis gets the nomination for R POTUS choice. He has been a stand up man for what he says he stands for in life.

originally posted by: ElitePlebeian2

originally posted by: chr0naut
Fascism and Nazism advertised industries and brands as part of its nationalistic propaganda, and advertised the desirability of in-country manufactured products as sources of national strength. They were entirely capitalist.

You know they had brands and nationalism in the USSR and 1940s, they must have been entirely capitalist too.

Many consider the USSR under Stalin to have been actually Fascist in practice rather than adhering to its Communist ideological roots. This is described as Red fascism and fully explains the historical anomalies you mention.

Except it has nothing to do with socialism itself. Socialism is collective/socialized control of the means of production, effectively state control.

No, what you describe is communism, not socialism.

Whereas capitalism is privately owned means of production, owned by an individual ALSO; a private.

Marxist socialism is where the workers were in state control, national socialists were the racial group in state control.

You are conflating Marxism, communism and socialism as if they were the same thing. No wonder you believe what you do.

The Differences Between Marxism, Socialism & Communism

From book; Soviet and Nazi economic planning:

“Both governments reorganized industry into larger units, ostensibly to increase state control over economic activity. The Nazis reorganized industry into 13 administrative groups with a large number of subgroups to create a private hierarchy for state control. The state therefore could direct the firms activities without acquiring direct ownership of enterprises. The preexisting tendency to form cartels was encouraged to eliminate competition that would destabilize prices.“

So their private ownership was just state control. Their free market was all state controlled. It wasn’t capitalistic at all.

The Nazi's never abolished private ownership of the means of production, nor the capitalist accumulation of wealth in the minority business owners. They just added ways for the government to regulate to prevent runaway hyperinflation (a problem before the regime), and to feed their war machine.

Donald Trump was once a Democratic Party member from 2001 to 2009. So, I suppose he is a 'leftist' now?

It is mainly the Democratic party that changed. Less so Trump or many other Democrats who are leaving in droves because of the party getting more and more left.

Nah, Trump just hadn't read any internet conspiracy theories spread through social media back then. He was far less radicalized.

Also Mussolini didn't abandon socialism, he abandoned syndicalism a form of socialism which is like 2 drops of water to what fascism is.

“The Doctrine of Fascism” (1932) by Benito Mussolini

From the above manifesto:

Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon

... Mussolini most definitely abandoned socialism.

No, in practice, and in history, there have been many far-right dictatorial autocratic governments:

Right-wing dictatorships

Anybody can edit Wikipedia, they don't give a definition of what the right means so they can call anything right for that matter. Which they do.


And you haven't done just the same with your definitions of things? Wikipedia is cross-checked and verified by hundreds of reviewers and editors.

Fact is state control is anti capitalistic its the exact opposite of private ownership of the means of production. And its not extreme right which would mean complete individual freedom and open markets without corporations, or any public control.

What you were describing in your post is centrist capitalist democracy, neither right-wing or left-wing.

Individual freedom, and a high level of private ownership of the means of production are right wing. Always have been right wing.

Face it, the current right-wing and alt-right are the direct descendants of the Nazis and the Italian Fascists, and they also have ideological linkage to all those subsequent right-wing dictatorships. No amount of 'black is white' logical inversion and revisionist history can change that.

The high-divisiveness and blaming of 'the other' for the problems of society and economics, is indicative that the right-wing haven't changed from their methodological roots one iota.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: chr0naut

Are you not embarrassed about what a cuck you are?

I am totally unembarrassed about asserting myself and am fairly sure that I have enough self-confidence to stand up to someone who alternates between insults or direct reposts of right-wing propaganda, and hardly ever supports an argument with 3rd party facts or links.

What does it tell people when they embarrass themselves by not ever having a clue because they chose lies and when exposed to the facts, simply have no shame?

What, like you?

I have an idea.

That would be nice. You usually just parrot even the insults of others, not to mention their opinions - verbatim.

IT isn't saint either.

All saved believers in Jesus Christ, His deity, His death, and His resurrection, and who call on Him as their Lord, are saints.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: chr0naut

Along with Mossad, MI6, KGB, BND, NZSIS [ The New Zealand Security Intelligence Service ] ...........

Every country has their Cloak and Dagger Division.

Yeah, but those others don't deal drugs, or arms, or contribute to all sorts of illegal enterprises, like the CIA has.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: chr0naut

Along with Mossad, MI6, KGB, BND, NZSIS [ The New Zealand Security Intelligence Service ] ...........

Every country has their Cloak and Dagger Division.

Yeah, but those others don't deal drugs, or arms, or contribute to all sorts of illegal enterprises, like the CIA has.

You should know I suppose.

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: burntheships

originally posted by: chr0naut

It couldn't be Trump's fault that people want to shoot him, could it?

What are you on about?
One flew over the cuckoo's nest?

I mean, he has quite intentionally been extremely divisive, rather than being conciliatory and accepting. That makes enemies of people who only have minor and resolvable complaints.

I'm letting your words stand alone, as dangerous and
inflammatory as they are.

This is why I find average IQ people so frustrating! They'll only look at and accept information that agrees with the conclusion their dead minds have drawn as final and unchangeable.

I mean, he has quite intentionally been extremely divisive, rather than being conciliatory and accepting. That makes enemies of people who only have minor and resolvable complaints.

Yes Trump is devisive, but to overlook the fact that Biden and Harris are also devise takes willful ignorance, for which there seems to be no antidote.

All I can figure is such low-level thinkers believe they already know it all, are of superior intellegence to any who don't share their beliefs and are never open to reassesing their positions as new informtion comes forth.

Throw in mind-numbing propaganda assualts 24/7 from the MSM and you have budding communists without them even knowing what they are supporting and becoming.

To our parents, being stubborn was considered a virtue. In reality, smart people are willing to change their minds.

originally posted by: ElitePlebeian2

originally posted by: chr0naut

Fascism and Nazism advertised industries and brands as part of its nationalistic propaganda, and advertised the desirability of in-country manufactured products as sources of national strength. They were entirely capitalist.

Ow and don't take my word for it, here read a letter from a businessman from that time how "entirely capitalistic" and so called opposite of socialism the Nazi's economy was....;

Dear Mr. X. Y.:

This letter will probably be a disappointment to you, but I raust confess that I think as most German businessmen do who today fear National Socialism as rauch as they did Communism in 1932. But there is a distinction. In 1932, the fear of Communism was a phantom; today National Socialism is a terrible reality. Business friends of raine are convinced that it will be the turn of the "white Jews" (which means us, Aryan businessmen) after the Jews have been expropriated. Just when this will happen and the extent to which "Aryan" businessmen will be pillaged depends on the internal struggle within the Nazi party ...

When we consider that Hitler himself came not from the ranks of organized labor, but from the ruined middle dass or the fifth estate, what guarantee have we that he will not make common cause with the bandits whom he has put into uniforms? The difference between this and the Russian system is much less than you think, despite the fact that officially we are still independent businessmen. You have no idea how far State control goes and how much power the Nazi representatives have over our work. The worst of it is that they are so ignorant. In this respect they certainly differ from the former Social-Democratic officials. These Nazi radicals think of nothing except "distributing the wealth." Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories, so that they will have a better understanding of the present economic system.

How can we possibly manage a firm according to business principles if it is impossible to make any predictions as to the prices at which goods are to be bought and sold? We are completely dependent on arbitrary Government decisions concerning quantity, quality and prices for foreign raw materials. There are so many different economic agreements with foreign countries, not to mention methods of payment, that no one can possibly understand them all. Nevertheless Government representatives are permanently at work in our offices, examining costs of production, profits, tax bills, etc. . .

There is no elasticity of prices, sorely needed though it be by businessmen. While State representatives are busily engaged in investigating and interfering, our agents and salesmen are handicapped, because they never know whether or not a sale at a higher price will mean denunciation as a "profiteer" or "saboteur," followed by a prison sentence. You cannot imagine how taxation has increased. Yet everyone is afraid to complain about it. The new State loans are nothing but confiscation of private property, because no one believes that the Government will ever make repayment, nor even pay interest after the first few years. Compared with these new State loans, the bonds issued during the World War were gilt-edged investments.

We businessmen still make sufficient profit, sometimes even large profits, but we never know how much we are going to be able to keep . . . Workers also make a fair living, particularly where the hourly rate has not been changed. A workingman who worked six hours a day before must now work eleven and twelve hours daily. Often his wife and children are also employed so that the family income has considerably increased ....

No free market, totalitarian state control; Ein Reich, Ein Folch, Ein Fuhrer.

This 'letter from a German businessman' was quoted from passages from pages 6 and 7 of the book, "The Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism" published in New York in 1939 by "Günter Reimann" - the pen name of Hans Steinicke (November 13, 1904 – February 5, 2005), a member of the Communist Party of Germany and outspoken anti-Nazi, but who actually lived in London during the War.

From the description of the book:

This book makes for alarming reading, as one discovers the extent to which the Nazi economic agenda of totalitarian control — without finally abolishing private property — has become the norm.

(emphasis mine).

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: chr0naut

Along with Mossad, MI6, KGB, BND, NZSIS [ The New Zealand Security Intelligence Service ] ...........

Every country has their Cloak and Dagger Division.

Yeah, but those others don't deal drugs, or arms, or contribute to all sorts of illegal enterprises, like the CIA has.

You should know I suppose.

Everyone knows.

Just one example of many is the Iran-Contra stuff where they sold guns to Iran, purchased with money, from drugs, from the Contras.

The Contras who also wanted arms, didn't have enough money, and so they had paid in drugs.

And around and around the loop it goes, making some US drug kingpins very wealthy, and embarrassing some US politicians who participated (including the then President, Ronald Mc Reeeeeeeeee-publican) when it all came out.

originally posted by: 777Vader

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: burntheships

originally posted by: chr0naut

It couldn't be Trump's fault that people want to shoot him, could it?

What are you on about?
One flew over the cuckoo's nest?

I mean, he has quite intentionally been extremely divisive, rather than being conciliatory and accepting. That makes enemies of people who only have minor and resolvable complaints.

I'm letting your words stand alone, as dangerous and
inflammatory as they are.

This is why I find average IQ people so frustrating! They'll only look at and accept information that agrees with the conclusion their dead minds have drawn as final and unchangeable.

I mean, he has quite intentionally been extremely divisive, rather than being conciliatory and accepting. That makes enemies of people who only have minor and resolvable complaints.

Yes Trump is devisive, but to overlook the fact that Biden and Harris are also devise takes willful ignorance, for which there seems to be no antidote.

All I can figure is such low-level thinkers believe they already know it all, are of superior intellegence to any who don't share their beliefs and are never open to reassesing their positions as new informtion comes forth.

Throw in mind-numbing propaganda assualts 24/7 from the MSM and you have budding communists without them even knowing what they are supporting and becoming.

To our parents, being stubborn was considered a virtue. In reality, smart people are willing to change their minds.

You forgot the people who take BOTH, or NEITHER, of the red and blue pills.

a reply to: chr0naut

YEah the afghanis would like a word. they have always won when invaded eventually. Only fools stand up out in the open against a military. you cant win in astraight up fight,you have to play dirty.

a reply to: watchitburn

I think you are right on the money!

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: chr0naut

YEah the afghanis would like a word. they have always won when invaded eventually. Only fools stand up out in the open against a military. you cant win in astraight up fight,you have to play dirty.

You mean the Afghanis that handed over more than $7.1 billion in U.S.-funded military equipment and bitched out when the Taliban returned? Please tell.

a reply to: chr0naut

None of your endless ramblings has anything to do with the OP🙄

Florida REFUSING to hand Trump shooting suspect Ryan Routh over to the Feds

Good on DeSantis to stand up to the feds. I wish more politicians would do this. He was my original choice for prez.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

The Feds took Ryan Routh away from Florida law enforcement, same day he was caught by Florida law enforcement.