Another reason early Christians probably weren't building communism

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88

That's what you take from my sentence. LoL

Good luck with the silly cheery picking and trying to put words in other people's gub.

It simply does not work with me.

You obviously dont have a Scooby Doo as to how the world operates or what's going on in the real world for that matter.

Which is probably why you are so bad-mannered, ill-tempered, and dare i say rather obtuse.

You’re the one that posted you felt like being behind prison bars because if you want roads, school, firearms departments, police departments the government has to raise funds through taxation?

Should people just be right out indentured servants for the sake of your straw man argument?

You have childish views of the real world because the real world has limited resources.

originally posted by: andy06shake


I think AI(AGI, strong AI) might do a better job than we do.

I guess life is too tough for you? You appeal giving up rights to allow a computer to rule over you in hopes it will result in life being fair?

a reply to: Lazy88

And yet you are the one whos sounding childish.

Probably because you are one.

a reply to: Lazy88

You're not very good at guessing are you?

As to rights, you only have those because the law of the land bestowes such.

There not god given, if in doubt i suggest you go somewhere without such.

And see how you fair under that sort of environment.

My guess is you would be screaming for your mammy in two shakes of a lamb's tail.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88

And yet you are the one whos sounding childish.

Probably because you are one.

How. By pointing out your staw man argument.

What form of governing would leave you with the least feels of living behind bars? Do you have a country in mind as an example?

a reply to: andy06shake

Better yet. Do you have a favorite constitution? Or favorite parts of various constitutions?

Care to write your own constitution and post it? Would be a great thread. Probably too much work for a childish person that posts like a high school drama queen.

andy06shake

And democracy is a prison where the majority cannot see the bars.

a reply to: Lazy88

I mean all i hear out of you now is.

Yadda yadda yadda.

I canny teach pork so why bother trying.

But one more stab in the dark just for good measure.

What form of governing would leave you with the least feels of living behind bars?

Democracy is the best form of governance man has devised thus far which we have already established.

Do you have a country in mind as an example?

Nope but i do have a planet.

Now you will think I'm a globalist all the same.

But we will need to come together as one race, else continue to squabble and fight over ever-diminishing resources and petty religious indifference until there is nothing left and civilisation stagnates on the vine.

But for the correct reasons and not just the banker's and 1%ers reasons.

Why do you ask since you already have me pegged as all sorts of nasty derogatory things?

Just after Moses and the Exodus, when the Israelites were in charge of the Promised Land, they had misgivings about admitting some of the eviler nations they conquered into their society but did anyway instead of putting them to the sword.

They appointed a king for the conquered peoples and their own poor in order to provide them with moral guidance and keep them in line.

The kings may have become corrupt just as the prophet Samuel predicted and let some portion of Israelite society revert to corruption and paganism.

In the Gospel era, some portion of the people may have been practicing human trafficking and what is described in Genesis 19. Gangs may have blocked and blacklisted people into having to join.

Some people took money for submitting to being known by those who wanted their help, and got rich and possessed by seven demons. Perhaps Mary Magdalene was one of these. Her last name seems to mean "Magija dalina" or "she distributes magic."

Some people were blacklisted by the less holy side of Israelite society because they did not want to surrender to submission to being known by those who wanted their help. Lazarus may have been one of them.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, the observant Jews were doing fine so the only way to help the Magdalenes and Lazaruses of the world was to give them enough free help to empower them to start a moral, Christian society so they couldn't be stopped and enslaved by paganism. They had no money or skills so they were starting from square one. Perhaps they had to support one another until their children had been apprenticed and learned a trade.

It was all funded by those who had strengthened slave culture by selling their souls. Those people got their souls back for renouncing their ill gotten gains and worshipping the Lord.

a reply to: Solvedit

So you are basing your thesis on Mary Magdalene and Lazarus mainly. I don't know where you get "Magija dalina" or "she distributes magic" from.

She is listed as one of the women with means to support Jesus and disciples in their travels. Luke 8.

1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

Now if Mary was from the town of Magdala on the Western shore of the Sea of Galilee that would have some possible significance to her wealth. According to Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org...

Later excavations in 2009–2013 brought perhaps the most important discovery in the site: an ancient synagogue, called the "Migdal Synagogue", dating from the Second Temple period. It is the oldest synagogue found in the Galilee, and one of the few synagogues from that period found in the entire country, as of the time of the excavation. They also found the Magdala stone, which has a seven-branched menorah symbol carved on it. It is the earliest menorah of that period to be discovered outside Jerusalem.
...
In 2021, another synagogue from the same period was discovered at Magdala.

So possibly the center of Jewish learning in Galilee. Also a center for processing and shipping of fish from the sea, and a source of tax revenue

"...it [Magdala] was the most important city on the western bank of the lake, contributing a wagon-load of taxes [...] until Herod Antipas raised up a rival on the lake by building Tiberias." --Gustaf Dalman

I think that an example that speaks more toward your thesis may be Zacchaeus the tax collector. Luke 19.

1Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

originally posted by: andy06shake


Democracy is the best form of governance man has devised thus far which we have already established.

Really.

Because this was posted..

Terpene
a reply to: andy06shake

Are you saying communism isn't compatible with human corruption but Capitalism is thriving due to human corruption?

So I posted this..

originally posted by: Lazy88

Or is it you don’t see political hacks getting ahead because the state likes kiss asses better than production. Where you are guaranteed, more like limited, to the same standard of living as the next guy who is a slouch no matter how hard you work. But if you’re in the “party” life is easier. If you’re willing to be a snitch. Communism is more like the good old boy club than people want to admit.

So you posted this piece worthy of a high school dram queen..

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88

People dont like snitches through.

No matter which political ideology they happen to subscribe.

Snitches get stitches, and for very good reason.

Communism is simply a system of governance, just like democracy.

And democracy is a prison where the majority cannot see the bars.

Nonetheless, and in my opinion, the best form of government yet devised.

At least for some, but that's always the way.

You. Totally ignoring the great harm caused by communism and its reliance on secret police.

a reply to: Lazy88

I'm not totally ignoring anything.

History clearly shows the danger of communism.

But again that's because people are corrupt.

And not because the system does not work.

You dont like the political and economic ideology because it seeks to establish a classless, stateless society.

Which you have obviously been conditioned to detest such an ideology.

It's not that hard to understand if you read a book.

You should try it sometime.

I also recommend one on manners. x

originally posted by: andy06shake


I'm not totally ignoring anything.

You ignored that communism totally dismisses basic human rights. From freedom of religion to making people indentured servants to the state. You in a jerky way ignored communists rely on snitches and secret police.

originally posted by: andy06shake


History clearly shows the danger of communism.

But again that's because people are corrupt.

No. There just isn’t any incentive to work hard.

People don’t do well when just given free things. Or even rental cars.

Public housing is another example. People don’t take care of stuff they perceive as being free and endless. Or feel forced into. Why would they, they have no feeling of ownership when the state can take something away at a whim. Which in a communist government all housing would be public housing. Get jealous of a neighbour because they have a better apartment, snitch on them as someone seeking to overthrow the government. Being a capitalist spy. The apartment suddenly becomes available when the previous owns are thrown in jail with no due process.

originally posted by: andy06shake

And not because the system does not work.

Communism doesn’t work because it strips people of basic human rights, and total disincentives hard work. You always work for the state where anything you can do can be taken by the state. Why work hard if you are limited to crappy public housing and breadlines.

originally posted by: andy06shake

You dont like the political and economic ideology because it seeks to establish a classless, stateless society.

It makes people slaves of the state at the mercy of the party. With no other choices. Where it does create an elite ruling class, the management of the one party.

originally posted by: andy06shake

Which you have obviously been conditioned to detest such an ideology.

No. I just see communism for what it really is.

originally posted by: andy06shake

It's not that hard to understand if you read a book.

No. If you study history, you see how communism strips away basic human dignity and makes people slaves to the state.

originally posted by: andy06shake

You should try it sometime.

Read books to know history?

How Joseph Stalin Starved Millions in the Ukrainian Famine

www.history.com...


“The Ukrainian famine was a clear case of a man-made famine,” explains Alex de Waal, executive director of the World Peace Foundation at Tufts University and author of the 2018 book, Mass Starvation: The History and Future of Famine. He describes it as “a hybrid…of a famine caused by calamitous social-economic policies and one aimed at a particular population for repression or punishment.”

originally posted by: andy06shake

I also recommend one on manners. x

For calling you the child that you are?

a reply to: Lazy88

You not calling me anything much little bit.

Simply pissing into the wind.

As to totally ignoring, well that would be you now.

Have a nice day in bad manner valley.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88

You not calling me anything much little bit.

Simply pissing into the wind.

As to totally ignoring, well that would be you now.

Have a nice day in bad manner valley.

Tell the truth about communism, and you get touchy. Ok.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88
I'm not totally ignoring anything.

History clearly shows the danger of communism.

But again that's because people are corrupt.

And not because the system does not work.

You dont like the political and economic ideology because it seeks to establish a classless, stateless society.

Which you have obviously been conditioned to detest such an ideology.

No, no, no, wrong, wrong, wrong. It's not just corruption although it definitely encourages corruption. It is immoral to the core. They want to enslave the intelligent among us by making us do the lowest work.

Communists may want to eliminate social classes by the means of Genesis 19, apparently on the theory that the "have-nots" are the "can-nots."

andy06shake is clearly innocent of this stuff because he's named himself after the giants in the Bible, but many in the ghetto do a little sex work to get money and smarts and they don't mind, and they don't know why anyone would mind.

It's because no one wants their soul. No one will possess them in order to try to unravel the secrets of life or of doing a glamorous job.

If Communism is this way, and you are not young, attractive, and in shape, they'll still find something for you to do, and it will be more awful. Because it's about borrowing your soul, not so much about sex.

They're lying about why they want what they want but here is a quote.
From www.marcuse.org...

In the 1950s and ’60s, Marcuse translated the highly abstruse work of the other Frankfurt School thinkers into books college students could easily read and understand, including Eros and Civilization, which became the New Left’s bible. That book said that by replacing repression with “non-procreative eros” and substituting the “pleasure principle” for the “reality principle,” we could create a society of all play and no work. Marcuse also argued that the revolution would not
come from the working class but from a coalition of blacks, gays, feminist women, young people, etc., the sacred “victims
groups” of political correctness. These are the ideas that now dominate university campuses across America.

But how did those universities become so intolerant of any other viewpoint? Again, we have Marcuse to thank. In the 1960s he wrote a famous essay on what he called “liberating tolerance.” He defined it as tolerance for all ideas and movements coming from the left, and intolerance for all ideas and movement coming from the right. When the apostles of political correctness call for “tolerance,” Marcuse’s is the “tolerance” they are talking about

[emphasis added.]

They may be lying about what the point is, because

"if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao,
you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow,
'cause you know it's gonna be
(shoo-bee-doo-waaa)
All right..."

originally posted by: Solvedit

Communists may want to eliminate social classes by the means of Genesis 19,

You can’t actual quote the scripture to support your claim. Can you. So you are just making stuff up?

a reply to: Solvedit

And why would a true communist “use” any scripture?

Marx and Engels, "Manifesto of the Communist Party" (Feb. 1848, 1888)

oll.libertyfund.org...


“There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience.”

A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

Works of Karl Marx 1843

www.marxists.org...


Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

I don’t think Marx is compatible with the Holy Trinity.

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: Solvedit
And why would a true communist “use” any scripture?...
I don’t think Marx is compatible with the Holy Trinity.

They may want to use means similar to ones described in one chapter of scripture.
You can't be bothered to read a chapter of the Bible even though they're rarely more than a page long.
You won't even bother to read what you're responding to.

a reply to: Solvedit

I came across a story about a child slave prostitute who saved her boyfriend from a fate worse than death after she was a freedwoman. It's recorded in Livy's History Book 39: 8-19

9
...
There was a freedwoman named Hispala Fecenia who, though she was a courtesan, was worthy of better things than the gains to which she had been accustomed from her girlhood, and by which she supported herself even after she had been manumitted. As their houses were near one another, an intimacy had sprung up between her and Aebutius, which was in no way injurious to either his reputation or his purse. She sought his company and his love unsolicited, and as his parents kept him close in every way, he was maintained by the girl's generosity. Her passion for him had gone so far that after her guardian had died, and she was no longer a ward, she begged the tribunes and the praetor to appoint a guardian for her. Then she could make a will and she constituted Aebutius her sole heir.
10
With these proofs of her love they had no secrets from each other, and the youth told her in a jocular tone not to be surprised if he absented himself from her for some nights; he had a religious duty to perform, the discharge of a vow made while he was ill, and he intended therefore to be initiated into the Bacchic mysteries. On hearing this she was terribly upset and exclaimed, "Heaven forbid. Better for us both to die than that you should do this," and then invoked deadly curses on the heads of those who had advised him to take this course. The youth, astonished at her outburst and excitement, bade her spare her curses; it was his mother who had given him this command with the consent of his stepfather. "Your stepfather, then," she replied, "for, perhaps, it is not right to charge your mother with it, is by this act hurrying on the ruin of your modesty, your reputation, your hopes and your life." Still more astonished, he asked her what she meant. With a prayer to the gods and goddesses to forgive her if, constrained by her affection, she disclosed what she ought to be silent about, she explained that when she was in service she had accompanied her mistress into that place of initiation, but had never gone near it when once she was free. She knew it to be a sink of every form of corruption, and it was a matter of common knowledge that no one had been initiated for the last two years above the age of twenty. As each person was brought in, he was handed over to the priests like a victim and taken into a place which resounded with yells and songs, and the jangling of cymbals and drums, so that no cry from those who were suffering violation could be heard. She then begged and implored him to get out of the affair in whatever way he could, and not to rush blindly into a place where he would first have to endure, and then to commit, every conceivable outrage. Until he had given his word to keep clear of these rites she would not let him go.

en.wikisource.org...
That happened in 186 B.C. The Bacchanalia was crushed in most of Italy.

See also: Senatus_consultum_de_Bacchanalibus

But I don't see how this relates to communism at all.

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: Solvedit
And why would a true communist “use” any scripture?...
I don’t think Marx is compatible with the Holy Trinity.

They may want to use means similar to ones described in one chapter of scripture.
You can't be bothered to read a chapter of the Bible even though they're rarely more than a page long.
You won't even bother to read what you're responding to.

I have read the charter. Now build an actual argument and explain you claims.

Seems you can’t even read what’s posted.

Marx’s own words..

“But Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis;”

In a true communist society, there wouldn’t even be a bible to read.