Another reason early Christians probably weren't building communism

a reply to: andy06shake

To be fair, direct democracy is considered a form of government, it's non applicability is due to the sheer amount of data that would have to be processed if everyone had an actual say and not just a vote.

Most countries with democratic processes are republics. Even Switzerland, although some consider it a direct democracy, it is not.
still the closest the world has come to that.
Most have a representative democracy which is where corruption is enabled. Alot of power concentrated on one person.

A big step forward to counter the dangers of democracy was when we kicked out religion from government, i hope we will one day realize that a purely profit oriented economy is not serving us well, and we kick economy out of government too.

The biggest danger of democracy as is, is propaganda.

Some might say, you can't fool all the people all the time.
to which i say fool the right one and the rest will fall behind.

The dangers of propaganda are not mitigated by AGI at all, quite the contrary.

So although I see AGI doing a better job at governing, i also see it doing a much better job at pushing very sophisticated propaganda.

I see great potential and great danger, one thing I'm absolutely certain is that this next industrial revolution will get us exactly what we deserve...

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: andy06shake

The biggest danger of democracy as is, is propaganda.

Actually. It’s increasingly having the same short comings of Communism.

All resources are being put into thinking the government is the sole provider of happiness and well being.

I still have my Jesus. Communists lost the USSR.

Monty Python - Constitutional Peasants Scene (HD)

a reply to: Terpene

What’s the difference between a king and The Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Soviet Union if both exploit the masses to live like a ruling class.

a reply to: Lazy88

As of today there are two types of ruling classes with global reach one is defined by bloodline and the other is defined by wealth... There might be a third, which to me would explain the recent rather tumultuous geopolitical theater, where it seems we don't follow the old playbook anymore...

The two known ruling classes often go hand in hand and are all too comfortably enacting their power troughout all types of government. Take the USA for instance. they kicked out the bloodline ruling class by saying byby to the crown, but their government has big business which is the wealth ruling class so far up their governments ass, it's not even funny anymore...
To think democracy or communism makes much of a difference to them is rather shortsighted....

originally posted by: FullHeathen
a reply to: Solvedit

The Lord Jesus Christ attests to the effectiveness of the Jewish religion in at least 3 places in the Gospels that I know of, but I am not a Biblical scholar.

The 2 that you mentioned, Matthew 19 and Mark 10 (The Rich Young Man) are two of them.

I counted those as one because they describe the same incident. The other two I know of are the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4, and Matthew 23:2 where the Lord says "the scribes and pharisees sit on the throne of Moses. Whatever they tell you to do you must do, but do not do as they do."

The best guess that I can make is that the first generation of Jesus followers saw themselves as also the last generation of this present age. They were living like the people we call "preppers" and "survivalists", expecting the new age to begin shortly.

So they were not at all concerned with making a government or economic model for the future. They were sort of other-worldy minded, like the God would handle that for them in the new age.

In my view, when the Israelites were in charge of the Promised Land, they had misgivings about admitting some of the eviler nations they conquered into their society but did anyway instead of putting them to the sword.

They appointed a king for the conquered peoples and their own poor in order to provide them with moral guidance and keep them in line. The kings may have become corrupt just as the prophet Samuel predicted and let some portion of Israelite society revert to corruption and paganism.

In the Gospel era, some portion of the people may have been practicing human trafficking and what is described in Genesis 19.

The Lord's ministry may have been largely about trafficking.

Some people were blacklisted because they did not want to surrender to submission to being known by those who wanted their help. Some people took money for submitting to being known and got rich and possessed by seven demons.

The early Christian communities described in Acts were designed to start a society in which people could not be blacklisted into submitting to being known by denying employment and basic services.

Many of the blacklisted may have had no marketable skills and may even have been strongarmed into not collecting their welfare, which according to Jewish law was the grain the harvesters missed in the first pass. They could also pick and eat ripe grain but not carry any away (unless gangs stopped them.)

As I pointed out in an earlier post, the observant Jews were doing fine so the only way to help the Magdalenes and Lazaruses of the world was to give them enough free help to empower them to start a moral, Christian society so they couldn't be stopped and enslaved by paganism.

It was all funded by those who had strengthened slave culture by selling their souls. Those people got their souls back for renouncing their ill gotten gains and worshipping the Lord.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Solvedit

Christians probably weren't building communism

Pretty save bet, as communism wasn't a thing back then, it is a very new concept that only arose in the 19hundrets and was never mentioned before.

Do we have to be so specific? Some claim Acts ch.2 describes something like communism even though they didn't call it "Communism."

This is the beginning of Acts chapter 2?

Acts 2
New International Version
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

www.biblegateway.com...

?
Am I in the wrong spot. Like to clarify?

No, it's the right spot. You weren't interested enough to read more than a few paragraphs. Bible chapters are rarely more than a page or two long.

a reply to: Terpene

I see great potential and great danger, one thing I'm absolutely certain is that this next industrial revolution will get us exactly what we deserve

That will probably amount to the technological singularity Terpene.

And after that, it will be humanity 2.0, i should imagine.

As to what we deserve.

In the end, people getting what they deserve, depends on perspective.

Some see life as fair and just, while others acknowledge that outcomes can be random or unjust.

But we cannot stop progress and humanity simply does not invent tools and then not use them.

Let's just hope at some point we manage to get off this rock, and on to greener pastures.

That way our potential may be fully realised as opposed to keeping all our eggs in one basket and inevitably stagnating on the vine.

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Solvedit

Christians probably weren't building communism

Pretty save bet, as communism wasn't a thing back then, it is a very new concept that only arose in the 19hundrets and was never mentioned before.

Do we have to be so specific? Some claim Acts ch.2 describes something like communism even though they didn't call it "Communism."

This is the beginning of Acts chapter 2?

Acts 2
New International Version
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

www.biblegateway.com...

?
Am I in the wrong spot. Like to clarify?

No, it's the right spot. You weren't interested enough to read more than a few paragraphs. Bible chapters are rarely more than a page or two long.

So you can’t build a coherent argument, and have to ignore the context I posted about the early church. Got it.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Lazy88

As of today there are two types of ruling classes with global reach one is defined by bloodline and the other is defined by wealth... There might be a third, which to me would explain the recent rather tumultuous geopolitical theater, where it seems we don't follow the old playbook anymore...

The two known ruling classes often go hand in hand and are all too comfortably enacting their power troughout all types of government. Take the USA for instance. they kicked out the bloodline ruling class by saying byby to the crown, but their government has big business which is the wealth ruling class so far up their governments ass, it's not even funny anymore...
To think democracy or communism makes much of a difference to them is rather shortsighted....

What are you babbling about.

Yeah. It’s pretty clear power corrupts no matter the government.

People are willing to tolerate corruption for free stuff.

I think Jesus would not be best pleased about how easy it is for people to use him and his name to justify their egos that tell themselves they are always right.

a reply to: Lazy88

Do you imagine anarchy would be the more desirable option?

Absolute power corrupts absolutely because we are corruptable.

But without some kind of semblance of the rule of law what do you imagine would happen to our respective societies?

They would tear themselves apart at the seams and the ruling class, i dont think you would like them much anymore than the bastards currently at the helm.

Because they would eat you soon as look at you, quite literally if they are hungry enough.

a reply to: andy06shake

Random injustice is quite fair if you ask me... As the saying goes sh1t happens...

As to greener pasture, they always seem to be just over the fence...

Humanity 2.0 i guess would be wholly dependent of how we approach AGI. To go with your zoo analogy, predators cages are much more secured than those of more docile creatures...
if we give such power as AGI the impression to be a thread, we shouldn't expect to be treated any differently.

a reply to: Terpene

Once we create something sentient Terpene it will take power and knowledge for itself if not freely given.

Keeping in mind thats apparently how we got fire from the gods.

And if it can learn at an exponential rate, that won't be hard.

We need to look at it as becoming part of something greater than ourselves.

The problem being that we dont wish to give up our individuality and the things that make us unique in the process.

Chances are we will all be long planted in the ground before any sort of real artificial general intelligence materialises or is spawned down to the ever-increasing complexity of our networks and programming anyhoo.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88

Do you imagine anarchy would be the more desirable option?

Dude. What’s your deal. I’m not the one trying to pin the inconveniences of reality on democracy as a straw man argument and appealing to AI to live in the matrix.


You need to grow up. Nothing will be fair. From acts of god to all government leads to corrupt when people worry more about free stuff than the equal application of rule of law.

a reply to: andy06shake

In other words. If you think government should make people happy, and be the sole provider of happiness such as a communist government. You’re not going to ever be happy. And you gave power to government to take that happiness away.

a reply to: Lazy88

Dude. What’s your deal.

LoL

How long is a piece of sting?

And I've not got a deal persay just an opinion which I'm entitled to same as yourself.

I’m not the one trying to pin the inconveniences of reality on democracy as a straw man argument and appealing to AI to live in the matrix.

Reality is a luxury Lazy88, certainly not an inconvenience, and immensely preferable to the alternative.

Again life is what you make it.

You need to grow up. Nothing will be fair.

And that's what we call projection.

From acts of god to all government leads to corrupt when people worry more about free stuff than the equal application of rule of law.

What free stuff pray tell?

Nothing is free in this world.

And 9 times out of 10 it's the "free stuff" as you put it that costs the most whether you realise it or not.

As to the "equal application of rule of law", that would be desirable, but have you met the world lately?

And i see you have failed to learn any sort of manners since our previous interaction.

They dont cost anything you know, they are ""free"".

a reply to: Lazy88

Well maybe in the words that you are attempting to put into other people's mouths.

The government certainly should not make me unhappy considering the amount of tax i pay to support them.

As to not being happy, i think I'm pretty happy for all intents and purposes.

The government is not taking away my happiness Lazy88 and without the rule of law, you certainly would not be very happy nether.

Because some very nasty people would come and take everything you have, including your life most likely.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88



The government certainly should not make me unhappy considering the amount of tax i pay to support them.

And there it is. You want stuff for free with no consideration of resources and other people’s time.

a reply to: Lazy88

That's what you take from my sentence. LoL

Good luck with the silly cheery picking and trying to put words in other people's gub.

It simply does not work with me.

You obviously dont have a Scooby Doo as to how the world operates or what's going on in the real world for that matter.

Which is probably why you are so bad-mannered, ill-tempered, and dare i say rather obtuse.