Another reason early Christians probably weren't building communism

originally posted by: FullHeathen
a reply to: Solvedit

What? Exactly which early Christian writings are you relying on for this thesis?...
I severely reduced the number of quotes because you can click the link and read them for yourself.

I'll have to take a casual look at your "Wall O' Socialist Bible Quotes" page but I was going by Acts Ch.2 as you point out, and Acts Ch. 5 where the couple receive Divine retribution for holding back some wealth.

There seems to be a chance the young man in Matthew 19 and Mark 10 made his money immorally, perhaps by stealing the soul of someone like Mary Magdalene. Perhaps the message to communists is not to covet the goods of the bourgeoisie so much that they get put in gulags and so forth.

The Lord Jesus Christ attests to the effectiveness of the Jewish religion in at least 3 places in the Gospels that I know of, but I am not a Biblical scholar.

The people who were most in need of Christianity were the ones who were under pressure by the Mob and could not learn the complex system of rules and devotions that is Biblical Judaism. Or, like Mary Magdalene, they had already lost their souls.

They were apt to be needy despite being able and willing to work because they might be being blacklisted into selling their souls. They were apt to be honest because if they didn't live by faith, they'd be trafficked or killed.

They may also have had no one to teach them a trade because of blacklisting.

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Solvedit

Christians probably weren't building communism

Pretty save bet, as communism wasn't a thing back then, it is a very new concept that only arose in the 19hundrets and was never mentioned before.

Do we have to be so specific? Some claim Acts ch.2 describes something like communism even though they didn't call it "Communism."

This is the beginning of Acts chapter 2?

Acts 2
New International Version
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

www.biblegateway.com...

?


Am I in the wrong spot. Like to clarify?

originally posted by: Solvedit

Acts Ch. 5 where the couple receive Divine retribution for holding back some wealth.

It’s not quite like that.

Ananias and Sapphira

1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,
2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?
4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

www.biblestudytools.com... E

It’s more to do with they glorified themselves by not being totally truthful.

originally posted by: andy06shake

Again democracy is a prison where the majority cannot see the bars.

You can say that about any government where you pay taxes and have to abide by the rule of law. Yet many people have came to the USA and gained freedoms and liberty’s they never had in their countries of birth.

So, yeah. All forms of government are necessary evils if you want to see it that way. Any government that can force its will can “prison where the majority cannot see the bars.”.

Hell, you can even say that about the pecking order and the social hierarchy in high school. Or the communist party.

a reply to: Lazy88

Say it about anywhere i suppose.

You see without rules and regulations, humans cannot function in large groups, and anarchy prevails Lazy88, survival of the fittest becomes the colour of the day.

That's just part and parcel where the human condition is concerned make no mistake about it.

That's why things like freedom and security are illusory notions at best.

And the law of the land is really the only thing that separates us from the rest of the predators.

That is true everywhere there are people and in both our respective nations.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88


That's why things like freedom and security are illusory notions at best.

Huge difference living in a society where freedom of religion and speech is valued, where there isn’t a cast system, keeping government small, and the government doesn’t dictates how many blue jeans and sunglasses are made each year.

a reply to: andy06shake

Democracy isn't really a form of government per se, it's the description given to the process by which the governement is elected and how the peoples voice are accounted for.

It's the dictatorship of the majority, if your not part of the majority it sucks, but I agree it's one of the best systems we've come up so far.

I cant wait until AI is introduced to account for everyone's ideas and formulate things along the biggest common denominator.
One problem of democracy is the sheer amount of voices that need to be heard to become a true direct democracy. Technology is rapidly advancing to a point where AI can do politicians job to evaluate the people's will and formulate new laws much better and with less corruption, if we choose so.
But there are too many that profit from the status quo, for this to happen in a representative democracy...

originally posted by: andy06shake



And the law of the land is really the only thing that separates us from the rest of the predators.

I love to build. I would love to build huge stone structures like I do in Minecraft. Even if the world was more like fantasy. I simply couldn’t build things by myself. And there is not enough natural resources in my area.

I would love to build a spaceship with warp drive like in the movies. Even if the technology was available, and I had the whole USA to my ownership. I still couldn’t build it by myself. And there still wouldn’t be enough natural resources to power the thing.

Your are just taking the very real limits of reality and childishly creating straw man arguments. Just makes you look sad. Sorry. Life will never be fare.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: andy06shake

Democracy isn't really a form of government per se,

Compared to what other form of government.

You’re just like the other guy. Taking reality to fabricate straw man arguments about “democracy”.

It’s seems the only way you will be happy if you were your own god dictator.

originally posted by: Terpene

I cant wait until AI is introduced to account for everyone's ideas and formulate things along the biggest common denominator.

Just live in the matrix where you are god in other words?

a reply to: Lazy88

I am my own god dictator, are you not?

basically you have nothing more on topic so you resort to attack those who apparently have put a little more thoughts into it... Figures.



ETA

As there was somethi g akin to a question...
totalitarianism
Authoritarianism
Monarchy
Oligarchy
Republic

a reply to: Lazy88

Oh, there is always a "fare" buddy, always a cost.

I'm sure you mean fair all the same.

Life is what you make it Lazy88.

As to real limits, and laws, those exist for a reason.

Can't see how they make me look sad or anything other than correct on that score.

But cheers for the fascination.

I won't speculate as to what you look like.

a reply to: Lazy88

And you are rather judgmental for someone who fails to comprehend nothing is perfect

Certainly not our organised religious practices or the economic and political systems.

What would make you happy?

a reply to: Terpene

You're touching on an important distinction between democracy as a process and the form of government it operates within.

I think AI(AGI, strong AI) might do a better job than we do.

Or at least facilitate us with a better Zoo than "they" do if I'm honest.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Lazy88

I am my own god dictator, are you not?

Nope. Because I’m bound by reality. And it takes people willing to sacrifice. Even if it’s as simple as a fireman risking their own lives to save lives.

originally posted by: Terpene
basically you have nothing more on topic so you resort to attack those who apparently have put a little more thoughts into it... Figures.

By pointing out yourself serving a childish?

originally posted by: Terpene

As there was somethi g akin to a question...
totalitarianism
Authoritarianism
Monarchy
Oligarchy
Republic

Which one allows people more freely allocate resources to better their own lives.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Terpene

You're touching on an important distinction between democracy as a process and the form of government it operates within.

I think AI might do a better job that we do.

Or at least facilitate us with a better Zoo than "they" do if I'm honest.

Like I posted. Just live in the matrix.

I’ll put you down as a blue pill person.

Again. You’re taking the reality of all life and using it as a straw man argument against “democracy”.

Just makes you look pathetic.

a reply to: Lazy88

But we dont live in the matrix.

We live here on planet Earth.

In reality and not in the plot of a Holywood movie.

Put me down as whatever you please.

But i have not told you anything that's not true.

I'm not the one sounding childish or pathetic or choosing to call others "pathetic" because i dont agree with them.

And Im also not the one that obviously needs to learn some manners.

Sand in the v@gina much today sunshine.

originally posted by: andy06shake

I'm not the one sounding childish or pathetic or choosing to call others "pathetic" because i dont agree with them.

But you are like my childish inner self.

Like today.

I get a little ticked because I have to move things around in my garage to get to some tools.

My childish send is like. Man. I deserve a bigger garage so things don’t have to share space, and I don’t have to stack up things on things. Those rich people don’t even work on their own stuff.

Then my grown up voice takes over. So you can be like people that keep buying for things sit around where they collect dust. You are blessed. You can work on your own brakes in a safe driveway. Where you can go to the bathroom, and not worry about tools walking off. Many people in the city don’t even have a drive way. You have the ability to work on your own brakes. And you have good tools.

Did I have all that starting out no. Then my childish self yells that I should have been given everything. Then my grown up voice takes over again. Remember when your dad gave you a nice truck and you were resentful because you had to take care of it. What happened when you went and bought your own car. You were invested in it. You took care of it because you were invested in it. You took care of that junky car like it was a nice truck because you needed it to get to work. Because you used your own money to buy it.

So. Yeah andy06shake, you reminded me of a child.

a reply to: Lazy88

Well i could also take communism to paint democracy as the holy grail of governing beyond any critique and go all adhominem on you just for voicing totally legit concerns about democracy...

a reply to: Solvedit

The Lord Jesus Christ attests to the effectiveness of the Jewish religion in at least 3 places in the Gospels that I know of, but I am not a Biblical scholar.

The 2 that you mentioned, Matthew 19 and Mark 10 (The Rich Young Man) are two of them. Another that people point to is Matt. 5:17-20. Here is the conclusion that Jesus made in Mark 10:

28Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”

29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

The best guess that I can make is that the first generation of Jesus followers saw themselves as also the last generation of this present age. They were living like the people we call "preppers" and "survivalists", expecting the new age to begin shortly.

So they were not at all concerned with making a government or economic model for the future. They were sort of other-worldy minded, like the God would handle that for them in the new age.