Another reason early Christians probably weren't building communism

Communism corrupts morals.

Assume the point of the early Christian communities was to provide mutual support to prevent people from being blacklisted to death for not going along with trafficking, like Lazarus.

Their only protection against violence or Roman oppression was faith and prayer. If they had behaved crookedly, then they may have been in severe danger.

If they had ever come to power and retained the communal sharing, then there would be no real barrier against all the abuses which make communism not work. I would venture to guess the quality and output of Soviet factories was quite high in 1941-42.

a reply to: Solvedit

What? Exactly which early Christian writings are you relying on for this thesis?

Just off the top of my head, I can think of many verses contrary to your assertion. But since I'm lazy, I'll just copy and past what someone else came up with.

Their basic argument was that Jesus was in no way a socialist, he would have approved whole heartedly of capitalism, the Liberal Left don’t know what they’re talking about, how dare you invoke the name of our pure, white, American English speaking Jesus in support of dirty socialism, taxes are evil, the government is evil, universal healthcare is evil, yada yada yada, you get the drift.
...
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things in common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 2: 44, 45

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

Acts 4:32-37

Source: The Wall O' Socialist Bible Quotes

I severely reduced the number of quotes because you can click the link and read them for yourself.

a reply to: Solvedit

Every ism is prone to corruption because......human beings.

a reply to: Solvedit

I'm the Bible it is small groups of people who decide who is given what. That is why it worked.

Some people live in a communal style even to this day. They share their labor and goods amongst themselves and who ever they wish to inside and outside their group.

But communism as a system at a national level with politicians involved. who in many cases live 100s or 1000s of miles from the people is a nightmare.

There is little to no accountability at the highest levels or the lowest levels. Which is why it quickly becomes a nightmare.

But if a person wants to live in a communist system then they can go and try it out by movibg to China, Russia, North Korea, North Vietnam, etc...

If you are interested I will try to buy you a ticket to one of these countries. The only requirement is that you have to spend the rest of your life there.

a reply to: Solvedit

Christians probably weren't building communism

Pretty save bet, as communism wasn't a thing back then, it is a very new concept that only arose in the 19hundrets and was never mentioned before.

But like others have pointed out many of the Christian teachings would be considered communist by those still trapped in outdated ideologies.

From the sounds of it jesus was anticapitalist.

a reply to: Solvedit

Communism works perfectly on paper just not in practice.

The reason is that people are corrupt and/or corruptible.

Which conversely is one of the reasons capitalism works so well.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Solvedit

Communism works perfectly on paper just not in practice.

The reason is that people are corrupt and/or corruptible.

Which conversely is one of the reasons capitalism works so well.

About 5 to ten percent ruin everything.

But that’s not the problem with communism.

Like it or not. For the enlisted in the military, no matter how hard you work, you get paid the same. There is no overtime. The only way to maximise your pay is to limit how many hours you work.


Or communism is like being on shift at a power plant or a factory. Which is a communal in nature. It only takes one person on shift being a $hit bag, and not doing their fair share to ruin morale and cause resentment. They don’t have to clean up after themselves, but they get paid the same rate. Why should I work harder. That leads to the second problem, communism isn’t about hard work. It’s about political power. Sadly $hit bags are kiss asses and braggarts, don’t work hard, but have undue influence over key players in management.

The problem with communism is it ignores people’s desire to be increasingly rewarded with better living standards as they work harder. Why work harder than the next guy if I get the same standard of living. The second problem, kiss ass (propaganda) is valued over actually being productive. Political power is the true currency in communism.

Then Paul himself cites people abusing the early goodwill of the church.

2 Thessalonians 3

www.biblegateway.com...

Warning Against Idleness

6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. 9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. 11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.[d]

And what lots of people ignore.

Paul was a tent maker.

Aquila and Priscilla Were tent makers.


There was Lydia

Lydia was from the city of Thyatira, located in Asia Minor in the region known as Lydia (Peterson, 2009). It was known for its “purple dye and textiles” (p. 460). Possibly Lydia sold cloth to wealthy clients in Philippi, and she should be considered a woman of status (Bock, 2007).

www.regent.edu...#:~:text=Lydia%2C%20A%20Woman%20of%20Status,status%20 (Bock%2C%202007).

The communal experience was more like church today. You had people that were strong in business made a profit through business outside the communal of church, and shared their profits with the church out of free will. Not because they had to by state decree. And not limited to a standard of living by state degree. And were honoured if successful business persons.

So the early church was driven by people working hard for profit in the real world. Then freely shared the fruits of their labor with the more needy in the church. Which is nothing like communism.

a reply to: andy06shake

Are you saying communism isn't compatible with human corruption but Capitalism is thriving due to human corruption?

a reply to: Lazy88

The problem with communism Lazy88 is that people are far from equal.

Nor do they desire some kind of utopia without competition and strife.

Which is not to say that we should not seek a system of governance with at least a modicum of equality for all.

As to the church, well if the history that surrounds the Holy Roman Empire and Church of St Peter are anything to go by, i have to suggest, and just like with most other forms of organized religious practice, it's not looking good.

a reply to: Terpene

No.

But i am saying all forms of governance yet devised by man have their shortcomings.

Along with their plus points.

Both on paper and in practice.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: andy06shake

Are you saying communism isn't compatible with human corruption but Capitalism is thriving due to human corruption?

Or is it you don’t see political hacks getting ahead because the state likes kiss asses better than production. Where you are guaranteed, more like limited, to the same standard of living as the next guy who is a slouch no matter how hard you work. But if you’re in the “party” life is easier. If you’re willing to be a snitch. Communism is more like the good old boy club than people want to admit.

a reply to: Lazy88

People dont like snitches through.

No matter which political ideology they happen to subscribe.

Snitches get stitches, and for very good reason.

Communism is simply a system of governance, just like democracy.

And democracy is a prison where the majority cannot see the bars.

Nonetheless, and in my opinion, the best form of government yet devised.

At least for some, but that's always the way.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88

The problem with communism Lazy88 is that people are far from equal.

The problem with communism is politics and party loyal becomes the only currency that gets a better standard of living. Becomes the elite cast.

How many immigrants from the cast system of India to the political classes of communist become successful in the USA. After being in a society that saw them only as a class, saw them more than untouchable.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88


Snitches get stitches, and for very good reason.

Not in communist. Snitches get rewarded. Why the USSR devoted lots of resources to secret police. Why secret police had a better standard of living, and greatly rewarded, and held great power.

a reply to: Lazy88

Rewared in one hand Lazy88.

But ostracised in the other.

Again nobody likes snitches, that's why they house them in the same wings and the pedophiles when they go to jail for their own protection.

a reply to: Lazy88

Well, the problem with politics........is politics.

If the rest of that a question, my honest answer would have to be, I'm not sure as to any sort of percentage.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88


And democracy is a prison where the majority cannot see the bars.

Tell that to the people of India that got out of the cast system and gained a better standard of living in the USA.


Or the people able to defect from the oppression of the USSR and gained a better standard of living in the USA.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazy88

Well, the problem with politics........is politics.

If the rest of that a question, my honest answer would have to be, I'm not sure as to any sort of percentage.

Communism is about the party which is political in nature.

a reply to: Lazy88

I would and it's true.

Even if the facts not very palatable.

Again democracy is a prison where the majority cannot see the bars.

And if you must quote me Lazy88.

Best to not to cherry-pick certain parts.

Because i clearly also said.

Nonetheless, and in my opinion, the best form of government yet devised.

You get that nothing is perfect, right?

Certainly not any sort of system man has devised.

And that includes organised religious practices as well as economic and political systems.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Solvedit

Christians probably weren't building communism

Pretty save bet, as communism wasn't a thing back then, it is a very new concept that only arose in the 19hundrets and was never mentioned before.

Do we have to be so specific? Some claim Acts ch.2 describes something like communism even though they didn't call it "Communism."