More than 200 Bush, McCain, Romney alums endorse Harris for president, criticize Trump

a reply to: Mahogani

So why did they not come out to support Biden?

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Mahogani

originally posted by: WeMustCare

originally posted by: Mahogani

Link to Letter | Link to Article

I wrote this in a comment, but it should have its own thread.

The list of names on this weak endorsement of Kamala is so static, I get the feeling some of them may be DEAD by now. Has anyone seen social media comments on this likely-hood?

Ok, I'll explain.

They are endorsing Harris and Walz. AND Walz!

That means not only were these people alive to endorse Harris a month ago, but also Walz since he joined her weeks ago.

These are all people who are alive now, 230 of them, but have worked for Republican administrations in the past. They all still identify Republican, but will vote for a Democrat in this election.

I noticed that you couldn't take the time to reply to my post.

It's been like six months for me. They're not the only one either.

After one of the hacks or crashes I decided that people that routinely and willfully lie, that use toxic rhetorical techniques, that tirelessly advocate for censorship, that have spent years actively supporting the banning of digital communities like ATS, and support the political class responsible, deserve nothing but contempt. For as long as I can remember there's been either insufficient will or a lack of recognition that would have been required for this to be cut out of the site like the cancer it is.

Good moderation of sites like this is incredibly difficult to maintain. When there isn't a strong hand on the wheel to ensure the course is consistent, fully consistent, with the principles of the rules and spirit of the site, moderation becomes a hamster wheel going nowhere. A site without a person at the helm that has the will, vision, and power, to eliminate existential threats can survive morons, loud mouths, and jackasses. It can't survive malicious intent cloaked with a transparent veil of civility.

I got tired of using kid gloves on people that hate me for things I've never actually said while they hide behind a mask of fake civility. Once that mask slips, why are we still pretending there is a discussion happening or that it's civil? I am more than capable of providing a justification for that unsolicited hate. It's called honesty.

Does it matter if you get a reply anyway? The poster has openly admitted the premise of their participation here is to educate ignorant Republicans by being a mouthpiece for specific propaganda. They've already shown, just from years of ostensibly being here for discussion, that they employ deception. To enter a discussion, when your intent is anything but discussion, is inherently dishonest. It's stealing my time and energy. There's plenty more deception where that came from, but it's all built into their premise.

It's essentially been an unwritten rule on ATS, for years, that we have to tolerate and not speak about the fact that a handful of members openly and proudly advocate for the site to be banned. Like it's a secret... like they don't want that for ATS... just everywhere else that allows my opinion to be posted.

Is my comment uncivil? Is it off-topic? We shall see. I would argue that this is never off-topic when the intent of the thread, by prior admission, is illegitimate as determined by the suite of rules that allegedly govern the site. Is it uncivil? Boy, it sure looks fairly rational and supported by evidence to me. Unflattering truth is not incivility. I'd love to see a cogent reply from the OP, but we'll never get one because it would be a transparent display of intellectual dishonesty or a frank admission of guilt. They said what they're here for to pwn the right wing extremists by admitting to their "virtuous" activism. There's no putting that cat back in the bag and, like every other fact-checker and propaganist, the underlying belief in their superiority over everyone else bleeds through in their posts.

I don't believe the expectations of intellectual superiority carrying the day have panned out quite like they thought. Rudimentary psychological manipulation and dishonest rhetorical devices aren't super powers, nor do that indicate intelligence. It's a common mistake among midwits to confuse knowing a tool with knowing how to use it and having adequate skill to do so without looking like a clown.

Holding a mirror up to people shouldn't be a hate crime. It's not rude. It's a necessary tool of discourse in a society when ideology and propaganda become more important than intellectual honesty and moral principles. The vast majority of our social ills found fertile soil to grow in with this nonsense piled up all over the place. ATS unwittingly became an agent of this decay, in total contradiction to the spirit of the site.

C'est la vie. There's a handful of posters, and I'm sure many more that never post, that are the only reason for me occasionally post something thoughtful. There are still some real people here, hiding among the ideological automatons and dark triad personalities.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!
And McCain doesn't count. Unless he plans on voting again from the Other Side......he's been dead since 2018....how OLD is that letter???????

I'm trying to understand the point here. A whole 200 from Rhino land, oh BTW both McCain and Romney hated Trump for doing something they can never do, and for Trump calling them out as to what they truly were. I have personally disliked both men, McCain more than Romney, for decades now.

originally posted by: WeMustCare

originally posted by: Mahogani

originally posted by: WeMustCare

originally posted by: Mahogani

Link to Letter | Link to Article

I wrote this in a comment, but it should have its own thread.

The list of names on this weak endorsement of Kamala is so static, I get the feeling some of them may be DEAD by now. Has anyone seen social media comments on this likely-hood?

Ok, I'll explain.

They are endorsing Harris and Walz. AND Walz!

That means not only were these people alive to endorse Harris a month ago, but also Walz since he joined her weeks ago.

These are all people who are alive now, 230 of them, but have worked for Republican administrations in the past. They all still identify Republican, but will vote for a Democrat in this election.

Several letters have been put together by one person without getting approval from every name on the list, or even making sure everyone on the list is still living.

Not that it matters much in this case, since the officials these people worked for weren't/aren't Trump-MAGA-AF supporters.

Well, that's just crazy talk. You have no evidence at all that anyone is dead or that false names were used, but if you can prove that I suggest you call the FBI.

Or... you can call the people who put the letter together, I have the link to their website in the OP, and ask them if any of the 230 are dead, or if they expect any will die any time soon.

After that call, you'll probably get a knock on the door from some nice people in black suits. THOSE are the people you want to talk to! You can tell them your conspiracy theory.

You're welcome.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Mahogani

So why did they not come out to support Biden?

Because there is a vast difference between Biden 2020 and Harris 2024.

Age would be one. Gender is another, but I shouldn't speculate on their reasons... other than this one:

When Biden ran, Trump still hasn't tried his coup. At the time Harris is running, all these people have a coup in their past. When they talk about preservation of our democracy, I'm 99.99% sure that's what they are talking about.

Things have changed so much since the failed coup attempt that large numbers of Republicans are publicly endorsing the Democratic candidate. They are saying they are not defecting party, they are still Republicans, but in this election, they are voting for Harris. Or rather, against Trump. If the Republicans had a different nominee, I'm sure they'd still be voting with their own party.

a reply to: Mahogani

So much blather.

Do you think you're changing any minds?

originally posted by: ksihkahe

...deserve nothing but contempt.

Have you considered that it is that contempt that makes some people not reply to certain people. Some probably just stop replying without saying anything, I usually let them know in a post I won't be replying to them any more.

The forums are no different than real life, in the sense that if someone walked up to me in real life and started being aggressive, calling me names -- and always acts that way, every time I see them -- I'd just turn around and walk away from them. I do the same thing on the forums.

On the other hand, also realize that some people get lots of replies. Whenever I post, I get a dozen people replying to my post. I can't possibly get to all of them, or even a few of them. So when a handful of those are extremely rude, or utterly pointless, I take note of who they are. A mental note. If they do that a lot, I stop engaging with them altogether.

When I'm done with them, I memorize what their avatar looks like, and when I see it, I just scroll over the entire post. There are like 4 or 5 people here on ATS I don't read at all. I just scroll right over.

a reply to: Mahogani

More cop out BS.


The reason you don't reply is because your paper thin propaganda doesn't stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Much like the propagandists themself.....

originally posted by: Mahogani

originally posted by: ksihkahe

...deserve nothing but contempt.

Have you considered that it is that contempt that makes some people not reply to certain people. Some probably just stop replying without saying anything, I usually let them know in a post I won't be replying to them any more.

The forums are no different than real life, in the sense that if someone walked up to me in real life and started being aggressive, calling me names -- and always acts that way, every time I see them -- I'd just turn around and walk away from them. I do the same thing on the forums.

On the other hand, also realize that some people get lots of replies. Whenever I post, I get a dozen people replying to my post. I can't possibly get to all of them, or even a few of them. So when a handful of those are extremely rude, or utterly pointless, I take note of who they are. A mental note. If they do that a lot, I stop engaging with them altogether.

When I'm done with them, I memorize what their avatar looks like, and when I see it, I just scroll over the entire post. There are like 4 or 5 people here on ATS I don't read at all. I just scroll right over.

We would like to roll right by your posts but they are so filled with obvious BS, we can't let them go by without calling it out.

originally posted by: wAnchorofCarp
a reply to: Mahogani

So much blather.

Do you think you're changing any minds?

trump is doing that all on his own by insulting and alienating different groups of people. And his adoption of Project 2025 isn't helping either.

He must have a plan where elections don't matter, perhaps another Jan 6....they will be ready this time.


www.bbc.com...

originally posted by: WeMustCare
Same group who said Hunters laptop contents was a Russian trap.

Former Attorney General Barr labels them as "political whores".

Barr authorized firing squads in Nov 2020 for those found guilty of treason.

This content is from an American citizen ... Yes

If we didnt know this , we could assume it came from history, Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia.
Is this really what you want for your country ?

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: wAnchorofCarp
a reply to: Mahogani

So much blather.

Do you think you're changing any minds?

trump is doing that all on his own by insulting and alienating different groups of people. And his adoption of Project 2025 isn't helping either.

He must have a plan where elections don't matter, perhaps another Jan 6....they will be ready this time.


www.bbc.com...

From your link:

Donald Trump has disavowed the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025 document, though many of its authors worked for his previous administration.

Are you so stupid that you keep falling for propaganda directed at you or do you assume the folks here are stupid enough to fall for it?

Who is "they?"

a reply to: Mahogani

Support him in 2024.