Why don't you believe in God?

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

That speck of dust matters more than you think.

originally posted by: BeyondKnowledge3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: BeyondKnowledge3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: AllisVibration
a reply to: BrotherKinsMan

Why be concerned with god, when god isn’t concerned with us?

What creator does not have affection for what they created?

God moment by moment holds the universe in existence. Supersymmetry suggests that if things were not restrained and separate, everything material would annihilate back into nothingness.

Some force holds the universe together. What does that have to do with your daily life?

In several popular books, god is said to not exist within time. Time being meaningless to god. Should this god be concerned with a speck of dust that is there and then gone in an instant before being noticed?

God created time. Shouldn't God revel in it?

Also atemporality does not mean no time nothingness. It means all time, at once and forever.

Time and space are facets of the same thing. This means that knowledge/experience of all temporal events is the same as knowledge of all spatial events.

How do you know that time and space are not just facets of the thoughts of some supreme being?

Aren't they conceptions in your mind, and yet you don't even experience a fraction of them? Are they real to you? Multiply that.

I think that at the level of God, it is pointless for us to differentiate between a 'reality' and a 'thought'.

Does the artist of a digital image concern themself with the existence of each individual pixel within the file? Our minds are not capable of understanding the whole image as a single digital bit is able to understand the contents of the Internet.

I think we do alright in understanding the Internet, considering.



But it is our limitation that leads to inattention and incomprehension. It is a rational necessity that God does not have those limits.

Just live your life and try to be nice and help others where you can. I find that makes most people seem more pleasant in return. It doesn't seem to matter if we understand the big picture or not. So, why make up an explanation for the unexplainable. It is beyond human understanding but is used by some humans to control others. They can do this because they say they have the answers. Their answers are just what someone way back in the past made up one day and it was written down.

Relative ethics degrade and change like fashion.

People will hate and kill over things as ephemerous as a political ideology or an arbitrary border on a map.

There has to be a supreme and absolute standard.

God gave us the tools, but we could easily be overwhelmed, too. God has to be subtle, so we 'get there' on our own. Then it will be genuine.

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: BrotherKinsMan
a reply to: AllisVibration

How would you define this?

His lack of concern.

Well from what I've seen....

you know everyone on a plane about to crash is praying earnestly as they can to save their lives and the lives of their children; Yet the plane still crashes.

To me that shows a lack of concern. How do you see it?

So here we are in this existence . Life and Death , Good and Evil , Pain and Pleasure .

But when something bad happens like a plane crashing you expect God to swoop his metaphorical hand down and catch the plane ? Though I bet when something good happens you don't hit your knees and thank God do you ?

Many Philosophers have gone mad trying to Explain God or Explain God Away .

When you have a bad dream do you curse God and blame God ? No because you know the Dream is not real , though when you are in the Dream it is as real as Waking Life isn't it ?

When you Die and you wake up and you realize that God is so far beyond anything that your human mind could possibly comprehend then you will understand .

This Life is not a Test nor is it Punishment . This Physical reality is an opportunity to understand the limitations that come with being distant from Gods embrace . How can we appreciate the true potential of our consciousness if we don't first understand the grueling nature of life when distant from God . What we are now is only a piece of what we truly are .

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't see how it's a necessity. To be supernatural is to be outside the natural universe. If that were the case then that being or whatever isn't part of this universe and isn't even a God within in it. Its outside of it.

I've had this discussion many times, and it always boils down to either you believe in a supernatural being that resides outside any natural universe, or you believe the universe is eternal or finite. We don't know. And you cannot prove either. Hence why some people tend to interpret the universe itself as God and not believe in a literal God.

The universes are in God.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't see how it's a necessity. To be supernatural is to be outside the natural universe. If that were the case then that being or whatever isn't part of this universe and isn't even a God within in it. Its outside of it.

I've had this discussion many times, and it always boils down to either you believe in a supernatural being that resides outside any natural universe, or you believe the universe is eternal or finite. We don't know. And you cannot prove either. Hence why some people tend to interpret the universe itself as God and not believe in a literal God.

The universes are in God.

We are within God and God is within us .

People seem to lose track of an obvious truth .

Darkness is very real and Light is very real . From whence do they come .

From within us both Dark and Light .

God is the source and we are connected to the source and so both Light and Dark flow through us .

Ive never believed in any god.
God is a man made concept.

Im a person that needs proof.

If anything, we are all a part each of 'god' all of us together.

That or Mother Earth would be the closest, for me, to a 'god'.

Ive been where ive been and seen no proof of anything resembling a god. If anything there is a higher "entity" that is a female, according to me and my experiences.

The science behind the universe and the possibility of multiple and extra dimensional universes is way too much to wrap our heads around it.

Why do people believe in a god that created all that?
Is it a comfort thing? I admire peoples faith in something strong for them, but its not for me thanks.

Brother Kinsman check your pm's

a reply to: chr0naut

Which God?

I see no evidence of a god considering how much evil there is in the world. If god created us then why is he letting us destroy ourselves ?
Religion is the root cause of every war - prove me wrong ?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: BrotherKinsMan
a reply to: AllisVibration

How would you define this?

His lack of concern.

Well from what I've seen....

you know everyone on a plane about to crash is praying earnestly as they can to save their lives and the lives of their children; Yet the plane still crashes.

To me that shows a lack of concern. How do you see it?

Your assumption that the plane crash ends their lives is the where you misunderstand.

No, my assumption was that everyone was killed and the higher power didn't seem to care, no matter how powerful the prayers. So if prayers don't work...what's the point in Worshiping a God that seems to busy to take us sinners into consideration.

Everyone seems to be anthropomorphizing GOD, thought I'd give it a try as well. Actually I think the cosmos is so complex; mankind doesn't even come close in understanding GOD; with his limited, primitive,
perspicacity.

And I don't need any holier than thou cultist to help me determine my personal spirituality.

Wait upon the everlasting God and thou shalt be protected from the internet trolls; thou shalt replenish thy restraint.


Indeed.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: chr0naut

Which God?

I reason that there can only be a single supreme God instance (I cannot know any such thing definitely as it is outside of any of our experience, and outside of any revelation that I have ever heard of) so here's my line of thought:

Try and imagine some sort of liminal space without time, or space, or matter, or forces. The only things that there are, are abstracts of potentials of what might, or might not, be. There is no 'real', in any sense we could know. Neither is there 'unreal'.

Now among these potentials there are possibilities of some sort of deistic power to act. And among these are a subset of those that have power enough to act to assert their existence into reality, those who have power to control even that liminal space - and because they are just possibilities, there are an infinite number of them, infinite possibility.

And out of that limitless number, there is just one who who does what they will, which makes their existence the only 'reality', rendering all other possibilities null simply by their supremacy over all and by their existence.

Because of their greatness, there is no isolation in God, either. God is their own community and family in the one singular entity. There is no need for anything in them. Everything they do is for themselves because they are the 'only'.

So God created dimensional differences within the all that they were, expanding the superposition of everything into differences, creating space and creating time. With space and time. it was possible to separate positive and negative possibilities so those potentialities themselves became locked in to the realities of being separate things. And so Creation was underway.

I cannot see God as creating universes blindly and automatically, either. They are a function of will. This universe has great complexity and variety.

There are strong entropic directives for all processes and yet we see increasing differentiation and uniqueness, a process which continues, because the Creation is still happening, following predetermined rule sets which are anti-entropic.

My personal belief is in the Christian deity, for several reasons. But I have been trying to be a little more general in my posts.

I do.

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: BrotherKinsMan
a reply to: AllisVibration

How would you define this?

His lack of concern.

Well from what I've seen....

you know everyone on a plane about to crash is praying earnestly as they can to save their lives and the lives of their children; Yet the plane still crashes.

To me that shows a lack of concern. How do you see it?

Your assumption that the plane crash ends their lives is the where you misunderstand.

No, my assumption was that everyone was killed and the higher power didn't seem to care, no matter how powerful the prayers. So if prayers don't work...what's the point in Worshiping a God that seems to busy to take us sinners into consideration.

God has promised eternal life, and that life more abundant. It is within our mindset for most human cultures. I think we have glimpses of this, through NDE's and visions, enough to give us hope. God being God, I will hold onto the promises as valuable.

Everyone seems to be anthropomorphizing GOD, thought I'd give it a try as well. Actually I think the cosmos is so complex; mankind doesn't even come close in understanding GOD; with his limited, primitive,
perspicacity.

True, we are finite. But we can understand infinities in many senses of understanding. Lack of full comprehension of an infinity is not a good argument for its non-existence.

And according to Genesis 1:27, and probably many other texts, God created mankind, male and female, in His image. So God 'deiomorphized' mankind, rather than the other way around.

And I don't need any holier than thou cultist to help me determine my personal spirituality.

Is spirituality just a delusion without the supernatural?

a reply to: chr0naut

Is spirituality just a delusion without the supernatural?

I don't understand....

Spirituality IS supernatural by it's very nature. Anyone that has the propensity to explore other methods of perception finds this out quickly and isn't bound by the dogma others seem to blindly accept and love.

I don't think your GOD will approve of Americas coming theocracy.

See...... www.project2025.org...

a reply to: chr0naut

chr0 you are wasting your time mate.

Some people don't believe and Some people do not want to believe.

They simply cannot wrap there mind around the fact that God is not some Super Human being in the clouds judging . I applaud your efforts but it falls on deaf ears.

originally posted by: lilzazz
a reply to: chr0naut

Is spirituality just a delusion without the supernatural?

I don't understand....

Spirituality IS supernatural by it's very nature. Anyone that has the propensity to explore other methods of perception finds this out quickly and isn't bound by the dogma others seem to blindly accept and love.

How did the spirit world arise?

Is the any sort of degenerative or evolutionary process going on there?

What measurable values are there?

How does one interact between domains?

a reply to: chr0naut

I hate to be blunt and straight to the point, but with your logic a creator needs to be created, and we enter a chicken and the egg scenario. Hence my earlier post where I already stated that you either believe the universe is eternal or you believe an eternal supernatural being exists. I guess pick one, because I'm not going to tell you how to interpret the universe, and you can't tell me either.
I don't believe in pushing ideology on people, and I simply don't believe in "gods". Therefore I am atheist, not theist.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: chr0naut

I hate to be blunt and straight to the point, but with your logic a creator needs to be created, and we enter a chicken and the egg scenario. Hence my earlier post where I already stated that you either believe the universe is eternal or you believe an eternal supernatural being exists. I guess pick one, because I'm not going to tell you how to interpret the universe, and you can't tell me either.
I don't believe in pushing ideology on people, and I simply don't believe in "gods". Therefore I am atheist, not theist.

Your thinking 3 dimensionaly . Humans are not capable of thinking beyond 3 dimensions .

Chicken and the Egg ? you think that scenario constrains the understanding of God ? A beginning and an End again we as humans cannot help but think this way because we have a beginning and an end so to must God.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

We can't think in three dimensions?

Sorry to break it to you, but we as humans, have thought of the concept of dimensions. Carl Sagan himself talked about how a third dimensional being might intersect into a two dimensional world, and so forth. We're literally talking about it now, I can easily comprehend a third dimension, but can I see it? Maybe not, but I can for sure accept that it may be part of a greater natural structure of the universe as a whole.

a reply to: strongfp

Sure mate I can accept that there might be 1000 dimensions .

But none the less we as Humans are constrained to and inhabit 3 dimensions and so to does our comprehension .

I'm not calling you dumb I'm calling all of us Dumb and unfortunately most people simply cannot accept it .