Over One Million United Methodists Quit Church Overnight Over Sex Rule Change

originally posted by: inflaymes69
Let people love who they want to love.

Sex and its desire is to ensure that a species continues to reproduce. What does it say about humans that confuse that as love, and confuse that desire to have same sex relationships?

originally posted by: inflaymes69
There's absolutely NO WHERE in the bible that mentions being gay. The man shall not lay with another man is taken out of context.

Um ... no. Scripture is clear. The people of biblical times wrote that homosexuality is a sin. The United Methodist Church rejects scripture. They can do as they wish, of course. But they can't call themselves a biblical church anymore.

Genesis 19:1-11

That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground. "My lords," he said, "come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again." "Oh no," they replied. "We'll just spend the night out here in the city square." But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, "Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex
with them!"

So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. "Please, my brothers," he begged, "don't do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection."

"Stand back!" they shouted. "This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he's acting like our judge! We'll treat you far worse than those other men!" And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door. But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot into the house, and bolted the door. Then they blinded all the men, young and old, who were at the door of the house, so they gave up trying to get inside.

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."
(NLT)

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

Judges 19:16-24

That evening an old man came home from his work in the fields. He was from the hill country of Ephraim, but he was living in Gibeah, where the people were from the tribe of Benjamin. When he saw the travelers sitting in the town square, he asked them where they were from and where they were going. "We have been in Bethlehem in Judah," the man replied. "We are on our way to a remote area in the hill country of Ephraim, which is my home. I traveled to Bethlehem, and now I'm returning home. But no one has taken us in for the night, even though we have everything we need. We have straw and feed for our donkeys and plenty of bread and wine for ourselves."

"You are welcome to stay with me," the old man said. "I will give you anything you might need. But whatever you do, don't spend the night in the square." So he took them home with him and fed the donkeys. After they washed their feet, they ate and drank together. While they were enjoying themselves, a crowd of troublemakers from the town surrounded the house. They began beating at the door and shouting to the old man, "Bring out the man who is staying with you so we can have sex with him." The old man stepped outside to talk to them. "No, my brothers, don't do such an evil thing. For this man is a guest in my house, and such a thing would be shameful. Here, take my virgin daughter and this man's concubine. I will bring them out to you, and you can abuse them and do whatever you like. But don't do such a shameful thing to this man."

1 Kings 14:24
And there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel.

1 Kings 15:12
He put away the male cult prostitutes out of the land and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

2 Kings 23:7
He also tore down the living quarters of the male and female shrine prostitutes that were inside the Temple of the LORD, where the women wove coverings for the Asherah pole.

Romans 1:18-32
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped
and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Timothy 1:8-10
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine ....

originally posted by: inflaymes69
I don't believe in sin. It's made up to control you

That's a different issue. You are free to believe or disbelieve whatever you want. HOWEVER, you can't call yourself a bible believing church if you approve of gay marriage and of active gay clergy because the bible says those things are a sin and people shouldn't engage in them.

Did anyone bother to get the facts? ‘The one million Methodists’ are all living in Cote D'iviore in West Africa, and they ‘left’ the church not as individuals but because the Methodist governing body in that country decided to secede.

None of the stuff being discussed in this thread is at all relevant. This is about a bunch of old homophobes in a small, poor African country making decisions on behalf of people who weren’t, as far as I can tell, given much say in the matter.

Christian Post, 1 June 2024

originally posted by: Astyanax
Did anyone bother to get the facts?

The facts were clearly posted.

‘The one million Methodists’ are all living in Cote D'iviore in West Africa, and they ‘left’ the church not as individuals but because the Methodist governing body in that country decided to secede.

Correct. The leadership of the church in Africa broke off from the United Methodists and they DO speak for the entire congregation.

None of the stuff being discussed in this thread is at all relevant.

It is ALL relevant.

This is about a bunch of old homophobes in a small, poor African country making decisions on behalf of people who weren’t, as far as I can tell, given much say in the matter.

This is about United Methodists MASS LEAVING because the annual convention decided to accept gay marriage and active gay clergy when the bible, which the Methodists say their church is based on, says that homosexuality is wrong and a sin. THAT is what it is about. It's all about the basic tenants of the United Methodist faith.

The United Methodists of Africa represent 12% of the United Methodists. They broke from the church over this. That's not a small thing. And we don't know how many others will leave on their own since this announcement does go against what the United Methodist Church says is their whole reason for existing ... the bible.

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: TinfoilTophat

Render unto Caesar da da ta da ta da. Nothing wrong with your Bible, nothing wrong with your constitution. We DO believe in the separation of church and state in the USA. With good reason I might add.

Separation of church and state is about the government not mandating a state religion. Not that those who are government can't be guided by religion.

Our constitution is not about what we can do, it is about what the government can't do.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Isn't that what religion does. It picks and chooses what to follow.

Don’t eat animals with split hooves
Don’t eat animals that don’t have fins and scales
Don’t wear clothing made from two different types of fabric
Don’t trim off hair at your temples
Don’t trim your beard
Don't wear jewelry
Don't remarry after divorce
Don't mistreat foreigners
Don't get a tattoo

So many things that the God says don't do. But people do anyways. People pick and choose what they want to believe.

2 to 6% of Americans are gay, queer or what ever. Why in the hell do we give them such a voice? Frankly why do we care?

a reply to: Nickn4
And how did so few get so many cultural, societal and economical positions of dominance. It's like the jews, love them or hate them my question is how has such a small group demographically become so powerful, holding high positions of power and and influence in finance, entertainment, movies and politics. Nearly all of Biden's cabinet holds dual ctizenship, Israeli & American.
Something sinister is a foot. How can anyone not see this is more than a coincidence.
these two links support eachother
what is going on?!
A jewish women was elected president of Mexico, wtf? This has not been reported on the news, other than a few articles but not at the levels warranted,why? Because people would be like...WTF!
She will also be the first Jewish president in a country with one of the largest Catholic populations in the world.

a reply to: Albone

Congrats on being sober and finding truth in Christ helps all. Keeping that dialogue open proves you love her. We all have someone close to us who is Gay by now. Remember that any sin is sin is where we need to be. We all sin, forgive and love the sinners is what we were asked to do. Rebuking sin with love and not venom spewed scriptures is the key IMO.

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: Albone

Congrats on being sober and finding truth in Christ helps all. Keeping that dialogue open proves you love her. We all have someone close to us who is Gay by now. Remember that any sin is sin. Mentally, that is where we need to be. We all sin, forgive and love the sinners is what we were asked to do. Rebuking sin with love and not finding and saying with venom the scriptures from the old Testament to why we needed Jesus is the key IMO.

a reply to: grey580

vs if you don’t use the right pronoun it’s a hate crime?

Or if you’re not supportive of pornographic books in elementary school that parents couldn’t even read in front of other adults at school board meetings your a book burner.

There very much is an effort to groom and sexualize elementary children.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: FlyersFan

Jesus said love everyone.

I find it funny that in 2024 churches are having schisms.

He even save Demon pigs!
Its IN the bible! Mark 5:1–5:13

"He finds the man is possessed by a multitude of demons who give the collective name of "Legion". Fearing that Jesus will drive them out of the world and into the abyss, they beg him instead to cast them into a herd of pigs on a nearby hill, which he does. The pigs then rush into the sea and are drowned"

There Is something Very very wrong with this.

a reply to: chr0naut

It's rather odd to find myself agreeing with you, but I do.

I personally don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. I don't feel that it fits into the greater narrative of how God is portrayed. Homosexuality is not a choice. But if it is a sin, then they were created to sin as a feature of their very nature. This seems wrong to me, but I don't claim to be a theologist.

a reply to: MrGashler

It is true that some people may have a genetic predisposition to addiction, also known as a substance use disorder (SUD), a medical condition defined by the uncontrollable use of substances despite the negative consequences. However, having a genetic predisposition doesn’t mean that those individuals are guaranteed to develop an addiction.

americanaddictioncenters.org...#

a reply to: Lazy88

The pronoun thing is a bit much at times. But if it makes someone feel better. Then why not.

Which pornographic books are in elementary schools? Can you give me titles?

And there is very much an ongoing crisis in religious organizations where adults are grooming children. When are we going to fix that?

originally posted by: MrGashler
a reply to: chr0naut

It's rather odd to find myself agreeing with you, but I do.

I personally don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. I don't feel that it fits into the greater narrative of how God is portrayed. Homosexuality is not a choice. But if it is a sin, then they were created to sin as a feature of their very nature. This seems wrong to me, but I don't claim to be a theologist.

"Homosexuality is not a choice", if that is true, as a straight male since birth I couldn't choose to become gay. I'd be a poser or a wannabe if I wanted to be gay, I can't choose if homosexuality is not a choice. I suppose I could say I was always a closet case to be gay, but that would be a lie.

Also, if it is true that homosexuality is not a choice, and being straight isn't either, then it must be true that my biological sex, as well as gender, is also not by choice. That would make a sex change operation out of the question as I couldn't choose to be a woman or any other alternative.

That single statement, "Homosexuality is not a choice" destroys the whole movement. I can be anything or I can't, it's as simple as that IMO.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: theatreboy

Jesus did say to love your neighbor...but he didn't say approve of the sinful lifestyle they live. I know it is hard for most people to understand, but most Christians don't hate like you think they do.

Eh, people cherry pick the sins that are “worse” than others.

Most sins are pretty much equal, and the seven deadly sins are:

1. Anger 2. Envy 3. Gluttony 4. Greed 5. Lust 6. Pride 7. Sloth

Do one of the big arguments I heard about gays and church was that they continue to sin knowing it’s a sin. Well, go to any church and promise you’ll find plenty of people who often find themselves in the seven deadly sins.

I could understand church’s not wanting to actually perform the marriage, but I’ve also seen people not stop someone over eating at the Sunday potluck either.

I’m not necessarily religious myself (not atheist either), but if there is a God and he’s like the New Testament, I imagine he weighs someone’s heart more than anything else.

I believe this is how things work, but as none of us know for sure till we croak, I'll have to just be OK with believing.

But for the two sides of this, on the religion side, it's that church's choice to lead as they wish. If their parishioners aren't happy, they will leave. As this group did. What the church decides or does, doesn't change laws. Dudes who like dudes can still like dudes, and chicks the same way. The world doesn't have to like it or even accept it, but it won't change.

the other side,
Gay folks are gay. They aren't gay because they were hit with a gay stick when they were kids. They are just wired that way. Just as you (as a straight person), wouldn't entertain the idea of getting your freak on with someone of the same sex, a gay person might feel the same way about doing it with the opposite sex. (I can't say for sure, I'm not gay)

Seems the bottom line is, folks will do what they want, and a few will be upset because of it, and most will just ignore it and move on. And folks on ATS will post opinions about it.

originally posted by: TheMichiganSwampBuck

originally posted by: MrGashler
a reply to: chr0naut

It's rather odd to find myself agreeing with you, but I do.

I personally don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. I don't feel that it fits into the greater narrative of how God is portrayed. Homosexuality is not a choice. But if it is a sin, then they were created to sin as a feature of their very nature. This seems wrong to me, but I don't claim to be a theologist.

"Homosexuality is not a choice", if that is true, as a straight male since birth I couldn't choose to become gay. I'd be a poser or a wannabe if I wanted to be gay, I can't choose if homosexuality is not a choice. I suppose I could say I was always a closet case to be gay, but that would be a lie.

Also, if it is true that homosexuality is not a choice, and being straight isn't either, then it must be true that my biological sex, as well as gender, is also not by choice. That would make a sex change operation out of the question as I couldn't choose to be a woman or any other alternative.

That single statement, "Homosexuality is not a choice" destroys the whole movement. I can be anything or I can't, it's as simple as that IMO.

if you put your outie, inside another dude's innie, you are gay. You could be "bi-sexual", but if you were ever asked if you were gay, the truthful answer would be yes. It was a choice, but once it's made, it's a done deal.

a reply to: network dude

Agreed. I still don’t think a church should necessarily embrace it to the point of performing marriages or having leadership openly be gay just as leadership shouldn’t have other glaring lifestyle issues.

But in terms of acceptance into a church or judgment from the congregation, we’re all human. Someone who is gay seems similar to someone who knowingly has other struggles (in terms of religious morality vs societal).

a reply to: network dude

So putting it in the Glory Hole at a peepshow makes you gay once and forever? Like it rubs off from the oral and infects the person getting head?