Over One Million United Methodists Quit Church Overnight Over Sex Rule Change

originally posted by: DBCowboy
There's some bible thing about judge not, lest ye be judged, but I have to draw the line when churches drift from teaching the message of Christ to whatever is trending on TikTok.

*boom*

Thus is my sermon from my chair.

Can I get an, "Amen"?

Amen

originally posted by: Tolkien

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: FlyersFan

Jesus said love everyone.

I find it funny that in 2024 churches are having schisms.

Love everyone does not mean accept any and all sin.

It means for us to stay out of it. Because in the parable of the wheat and the tare, you may harm the wheat to pull up the tare until after the harvest. God will take care of the evil. We are to not associate with evil, but we have to meet it at it's place of work so to speak. We are to rebuke sin of ourselves and help others with telling them the truth when we see them sin. We are not to stone them, yell at them, deny them their freedoms, but should treat them as we want to be treated. I would not want to be allowed to preach that a sin is not one however. Saying my sin was not a sin, whatever my sins are, would be a lie. We do have pastors saying it is not a sin I do believe when it certainly is. Murder or lies, sin is sin.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

One of the things about church is that it's a place to confess your sins, ask forgiveness of your sins, not celebrate them.

2 cents.

There’s nothing scriptural about mass confessions as it is being practiced by most churches. The whole idea of a priest listening to sins and forgiving them is not taught in the Bible.

originally posted by: ghandalf

originally posted by: DBCowboy

One of the things about church is that it's a place to confess your sins, ask forgiveness of your sins, not celebrate them.

2 cents.

There’s nothing scriptural about mass confessions as it is being practiced by most churches. The whole idea of a priest listening to sins and forgiving them is not taught in the Bible.

True, only God can forgive, that's why we pray to God and not pray to priests.

a reply to: theatreboy

My story is pretty close. Quit from 24 to 44ish. After my dad and uncle passed, I self medicated for 6 or 7 years. It started with a couple won't hurt to a bottle of cheap burbon a day.

After 3 days detox it's now been about 15 years sober. When they say you start over where you left off it's spot on correct.

I listen to what the Spirit says and practise grace and forgiveness. I certainly need them. Yes, I have the thorn in my side of sin. Just like Paul did.

I also have a daughter that has a female partner. Love the daughter, but not the sin. There are some topics we have quit talking about, but we still talk.

a reply to: FlyersFan

My Bible has a Constitution in it.

Constitution allows people to be gay.

You telling me my Bible is wrong?

originally posted by: Tolkien

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: FlyersFan

Jesus said love everyone.

I find it funny that in 2024 churches are having schisms.

Love everyone does not mean accept any and all sin.

In your own life, sure...

And I think it depends how selectively you read it, and what you interpret each passage to mean.

Luke 6: 35-36

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked

What if the Bible printed it like that?

Joking aside, I think you're supposed to let god judge all sinners. You can find it reprehensible, but I think you're supposed to do you and let God sort it out the others, and not try to fight in its name. Idealistically, anyway. That's what I would interpret.

Honestly, I commit the most unforgivable sin regularly, and that is questioning the holy spirit as directly divine. It's actually irredeemable. It's right up there with speaking the words, "shehamforash". (The unspeakable name of god)

The holy spirit is our collective mind of god's benevolent key, which is actually a byproduct of its default ambivalence, and is imprinted within nature as evolved empathy and compassion. The natural want to do good.

Those are total, "Go to hell, go directly to hell, do not pass go, do not collect eternal paradise" words to say/write, and according to scripture that takes precedence over the gay thing.

- Ordained Blasphemous Universalist Minister.

a reply to: Albone
Congrats! 15 years is great.

Lord willing and the creek don’t rise, I will celebrate that in 12 years.

I think people confuse minor sin with major sin, some will say well sin is sin, but if you study the bible you will discover there is a difference.
Even under the Mosaic Law, which we are no longer under, different sins had different punishments.
For example manslaughter caused people to be under essentially city arrest and not just any city, there where only certain ones. Adultery was the death penalty. Fornication between 2 single people, your punishment; you had to get married on pain of death, you better hoped you like that person and didn't do that when you were so drunk you had no clue who the person was.
Minor sin usually meant making some type of atonement with a sacrifice of some type.
The point was different moral crimes that were sins had some different punishments, Jesus did away with the death penalty for all major sins.
He told the adulterous woman about to be stoned to death, sin no more, did she sin in a major way again?
The bible does not say.

Jesus sacrifice covers all individuals, and I am glad it can cover the sins we are discussing in this thread as well.
But it would be naive to think that during "Judgement Day" his mercy and love will continue to cover practiced major sin.

In fact 1 Corinthians 6 lists all the things we can't and should not do or be, but ends with verse 11

That's what some of you were! But you have been washed and made holy, and you have received God's approval in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

a reply to: Albone

My admiration for overcoming something that hard and being honest with the world about it. I think it helps people to realize they’re not alone in a situation and others deal with similar circumstances.

As for your daughter, I have no kids and pass no judgement. I imagine as someone with strong ideology myself it would be hard to reckon with my hypothetical child countering that. My guess is unconditional love will be the bridge between two opposing positions. But again, I have no experience in that realm.

People have their shortcomings, we all fall short of the glory of God.

When some members here speak of drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco as if it were a sin, I must point out that an addiction to a thing or substance is sinful because you are putting it before God. Your moments of self-gratification outside of glorifying God are the sins in these cases. Why would you need God for that feeling you get when you take a deep drag off that nicotine stick, or slug down that booze, or snort up an eight-ball, or all of these things when you're looking for other kicks from a sinful world? You should be getting that gratification, that rush, and that buzz from God, not from pharmakeia or the flesh.

Any church that accepts putting things of the world above God can be considered Satanic, and I'm not talking about that political Church of Satan type of Satanism either, I'm talking about the real thing.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: Tolkien

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: FlyersFan

Jesus said love everyone.

I find it funny that in 2024 churches are having schisms.

Love everyone does not mean accept any and all sin.

I would not want to be allowed to preach that a sin is not one however. Saying my sin was not a sin, whatever my sins are, would be a lie. We do have pastors saying it is not a sin I do believe when it certainly is.

Exactly !

a reply to: TinfoilTophat

Render unto Caesar da da ta da ta da. Nothing wrong with your Bible, nothing wrong with your constitution. We DO believe in the separation of church and state in the USA. With good reason I might add.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Lazy88

Yet the people who point out the sins are very selective of the ones they care about.

Or maybe most Christians understand to accept all sinners and worry about all sin, it’s just some people are more sensitive in hearing their pet / preferred sin is a sin. Like how some pastors cower from preaching the word of God because it might run off the biggest donors of a congregation.

So you should be happy the Methodist church allows same sex marriage and allows Gay and lesbian preaches and hold office.

It’s not my belief, I don’t think it’s the word of God, but glad America has freedom of religion.

originally posted by: grey580
Don't think gay people are reading the bible anymore.

If they don't want to that's their choice. But a church can not call itself a bible believing church while 'blessing' gay marriage and active gay clergy. The two are not compatible. The United Methodist church can not call itself a bible believing church anymore. That may be fine with them. But it's weird to pick the Jesus part and accept that as fact, but then reject the parts that say homosexuality is a sin and can not be done.

originally posted by: ghandalf
There’s nothing scriptural about mass confessions as it is being practiced by most churches. The whole idea of a priest listening to sins and forgiving them is not taught in the Bible.

Actually it is. The bible, both Old and New Testament, shows people going to Gods anointed to confess their sins and be assured of forgiveness -

Jesus tells his apostles, the first priests, John 20:23 - “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”.

The biblical case for confession

And Old Testament - 2 Samuel 12:13-23 -

Then David confessed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

Nathan replied, “Yes, but the Lord has forgiven you, and you won’t die for this sin. 14 Nevertheless, because you have shown utter contempt for the word of the Lord[a] by doing this, your child will die.”

originally posted by: ghandalf

originally posted by: chr0naut

The Bible has very little to say about homosexuality, but much to say about sexual immorality in general.

To focus on a particular sin is unhealthy and an unbalanced view of what the Bible teaches.

The Bible does equate homosexuality and heterosexual infidelity as sins of equal consequence. As is gluttony. Those practicing such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom it proclaims. Time to lay off all that processed food and shed some pounds!

However, it is quite specific about homosexuality, there is no ambiguity there, and that’s where you are not correct.

There are significant passages in the Bible about eunuch's which do not condemn them. You figure out what that means.

The Bible is unequivocally unambiguous about every single sin.

And to be specific, these are the 7 deadly sins:
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Greed
- Sloth
- Wrath
- Envy
- Pride

And here are the 10 Commandments:

- You shall have no other gods before Me.
- You shall make no idols.
- You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
- Keep the Sabbath day holy.
- Honour your father and your mother.
- You shall not murder.
- You shall not commit adultery.
- You shall not steal.
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
- You shall not covet.

originally posted by: chr0naut

There are significant passages in the Bible about eunuch's which do not condemn them.

Scratches head..

Eunuchs would usually be servants or slaves who had been castrated to make them less threatening servants of a royal court where physical access to the ruler could wield great influence.[5]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Why would the word of God condemn a servant or slave that had been castrated? Or other servants or slaves?

There's absolutely NO WHERE in the bible that mentions being gay. The man shall not lay with another man is taken out of context. Let people love who they want to love. I find it horrible that people complain about someone who only lives ONE life, being able to find someone and be happy with and love them. How sad you must be.

I don't believe in sin. It's made up to control you

I also believe the Catholics threw in homosexuality to hide their own deviant behaviors.

a reply to: FlyersFan

a reply to: inflaymes69

Then please quote the actual bible.

I think it’s better to love all humankind out of pureness of heart with no lust, no physical desire of sex.

I wish English was more like the Greek language. Four words for love with each being a very different form of love.