Can anyone explain the crime Trump did?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: TzarChasm

Suppose we take it all at face value as true

It can't be a FECA violation if it can be construed as private in any other scenario.

Which was the point of Peckers cross examination of this happening very often.

This is exactly correct.
FECA regulations are clear.
If a payment would occur outside of a campaign it CAN NOT be classified as a campaign expense.
Trump has paid people and set up NDAs before - when not running for office.
This is what the ex chairman of the FEC was going to testify to in court - and explain why the payment could not possibly be a campaign contribution - but the judge refused to let him.
There is absolutely no crime here at all.
There is not even a misdemeanor because the payment WAS a legal expense.

To give what just happened any legitimacy at all, you either have to have a clear agenda or be just plain dumb.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Did anybody figure out what manner of crime was committed and what law was used to determine that fact? Aside from NDA and election interference, aka suppressing scandals several months after the actual election was concluded?

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: JinMI

It was not. However Stormi testified that she was approached in 2011 for her story, was paid 15g for an interview but the story never ran. She was never paid by Trump until after the access Hollywood recording got out and there was interest from the National Enquirer for her story before the election. Trump had Cohen pay her off then.

Okay but that doesn't explain why checks and invoices apparently were dated AFTER the election was concluded.

On the other hand, it's also argued by the defense that Trump was not aware and did not endorse those payments which was defeated in court by explicit documents describing the transaction.

This all hinges on whether Trump did in fact purposely suppress the story, via NDA and 'catch and kill' tactics, prior to his election in November 2016 because of New York law prohibiting election interference (ignoring how democrats employed the same tactics to protect Biden, exposed in the Twitter files).

It does not come down to whether Trump tried to hide the payments because he was running for office.
There is no legal imperative to disclose NON-Campaign expenditure - it's perfectly legal to not do so.
The only expenditure you must declare is campaign expense.

The payment to Stormy Daniels cannot be classified as a campaign expense because it is an expense that would still be incurred if there were no election.

I would encourage people to read this thread - by Brad Smith - the former chairman of the FEC who the judge refused to let testify.

x.com...

Thank you. The issue I'm seeing is that this NDA and "hush money" situation was allegedly connected to his campaign, an attempt to protect his election. The counter argument is that this payment would have occurred in due time with or without the risk to his chances of being elected. If that's true, it seems that he took precautions after being elected instead of years prior when there was no motive to do so, while also skirting the election laws by waiting several months after his inauguration so there's no correlation. But they wanted to create the impression of correlation which then opens the door to a felony charge.

Even if there was a direct correlation with the campaign , it doesn't matter.
The FEC rules state that any payment that has dual purpose - i.e. could be for an election OR could happen at times not in an election do not count as a campaign expense.
Trump could say in a press conference - 'Yeah, i wanted to make sure it didn;t come out during the election'... it is STILL not an election campaign expense.

This makes sense when you think about it - anyone running for office, could for example, buy a new house with campaign funds and say it was because they wanted to have a home in their constituency to help with the election.

You can not use campaign funds for private expenses not solely linked to the election.
That IS illegal.

You can slice it and dice it a million ways - there is no campaign finance violation.
I am sure the prosecutor and the judge knew this and that is exactly why they didn't want any discussion of campaign finance laws to be had - AND they added two more nebulous potential crimes so the jurors could pick one.

If there really was a campaign finance violation - you think they would not have had campaign finance experts lined up for the prosecution? Of course they would.

a reply to: UKTruth

Why was Cohen convicted of it then, if the law doesn’t exist as you just claimed?

a reply to: Annee

Because there is no evidence nor jury note of this other crime.

Moreover, there is no evidence that Trump intended to commit a crime, quite the opposite.

For another crime to be added contingent upon the former crime mens rea must be applicable.

Not to mention evidence.....


But you've already stated that because you're sure he committed crimes somewhere, sometime else that he's culpable here.

This is not the thinking of a rational, competent person.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JadedGhost
a reply to: UKTruth

Why was Cohen convicted of it then, if the law doesn’t exist as you just claimed?

POST REMOVED BY STAFF

What was the underlying crime used to cover up another crime? The Jury never said. 🤣🤣

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JadedGhost
a reply to: network dude

lol, you really think trying to pick my argument apart is really going to do anything to help your boy Trump?

These are the facts… Trump carried out an illegal act, which he knew full well was illegal when he did it and now his a convicted felon, justice has been served.

Yes, Trump broke it down into payments to try to make it look like a legitimate expense.

Cohen did that, not Trump. Right? With the invoices.😃

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JadedGhost
a reply to: UKTruth

Why was Cohen convicted of it then, if the law doesn’t exist as you just claimed?

They love to skip over the “covering up another crime”.

What was the underlying crime used to cover up another crime? The Jury never said. 🤣🤣

Since you reject every “answer” — guess we’ll just have to go through the appeals process to find out.

And when that’s over — IF Trumps is still guilty — what will your answer be?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JadedGhost
a reply to: UKTruth

Why was Cohen convicted of it then, if the law doesn’t exist as you just claimed?

They love to skip over the “covering up another crime”.

What was the underlying crime used to cover up another crime? The Jury never said. 🤣🤣

Since you reject every “answer” — guess we’ll just have to go through the appeals process to find out.

And when that’s over — IF Trumps is still guilty — what will your answer be?

For a moment I thought you may have known at least one. 😀

originally posted by: Annee

And when that’s over — IF Trumps is still guilty — what will your answer be?

Guilty of what crime? In accordance with what federal code / statute?

a reply to: Annee

I Wish I May , I Wish I Might , see Donald J. Trump in a Jail Cell Tonight ..............Good Night Annee Dear , Sleep Uptight............

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: Annee

And when that’s over — IF Trumps is still guilty — what will your answer be?

Guilty of what crime? In accordance with what federal code / statute?

34 felony counts, you can sit around as much as you like scratching your head acting stupid, but it won’t change a thing.

His now a convicted felon, justice was served.

originally posted by: JadedGhost

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: Annee

And when that’s over — IF Trumps is still guilty — what will your answer be?

Guilty of what crime? In accordance with what federal code / statute?

34 felony counts, you can sit around as much as you like scratching your head acting stupid, but it won’t change a thing.

His now a convicted felon, justice was served.

WTF?

That didn’t answer the question.

Guilty of what crime? In accordance with what federal code / statute?


Example…. Sexual harassment. You know the crime some elected politicians were accused of and used a slush fund and tax payers money to silence their accusers with NDA’s..

29 CFR § 1604.11 - Sexual harassment.

§ 1604.11 Sexual harassment.
(a) Harassment on the basis of sex is a violation of section 703 of title VII. 1 Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when (1) submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment, (2) submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individual, or (3) such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment.

1 The principles involved here continue to apply to race, color, religion or national origin.

www.law.cornell.edu...

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: JadedGhost
a reply to: xuenchen

It was smoking gun evidence that the ‘legal fees’ label was intentional and not just a book keeping error.

Turns out, paying off hookers isn't in the drop down menu.

I wonder if congressional slushhush find is though....

😂😂😂😂

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Annee

I Wish I May , I Wish I Might , see Donald J. Trump in a Jail Cell Tonight

As I've stated before -- I've followed Trump for 30+ years. Long before he got involved in politics.

He is a long-time white-collar conman -- trained by his equally conman father.

Yes -- I would not be sympathetic if his long overdue shyster dealings caught up with him.

a reply to: Annee

Still doesn’t answer the question..

originally posted by: Annee

And when that’s over — IF Trumps is still guilty — what will your answer be?

Guilty of what crime? In accordance with what federal code / statute?

a reply to: Annee

Funny. Someone posted about “evidence”? Which is BS. Did the prosecution ever cite how obtaining a NDA isn’t a Legal fee, cite what accounting code / law / best practice, and what it was supposed to be listed as. Hell taking a client to a strip club and buying them a lap dance can be a legal business expense.

Is that how they are getting away with this clown show trial, listing it as an entertainment expense.

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: Annee

Funny. Someone posted about “evidence”? Which is BS. Did the prosecution ever cite how obtaining a NDA isn’t a Legal fee, cite what accounting code / law / best practice, and what it was supposed to be listed as. Hell taking a client to a strip club and buying them a lap dance can be a legal business expense.

Is that how they are getting away with this clown show trial, listing it as an entertainment expense.

More denial.

I’ll wait for the real lawyers.

a reply to: Annee

Forever waiting for someone else to confirm your bias.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: Annee

Funny. Someone posted about “evidence”? Which is BS. Did the prosecution ever cite how obtaining a NDA isn’t a Legal fee, cite what accounting code / law / best practice, and what it was supposed to be listed as. Hell taking a client to a strip club and buying them a lap dance can be a legal business expense.

Is that how they are getting away with this clown show trial, listing it as an entertainment expense.

More denial.

I’ll wait for the real lawyers.

Enough about how your really feeling 😂

originally posted by: Dalamax

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: Annee

Funny. Someone posted about “evidence”? Which is BS. Did the prosecution ever cite how obtaining a NDA isn’t a Legal fee, cite what accounting code / law / best practice, and what it was supposed to be listed as. Hell taking a client to a strip club and buying them a lap dance can be a legal business expense.

Is that how they are getting away with this clown show trial, listing it as an entertainment expense.

More denial.

I’ll wait for the real lawyers.

Enough about how your really feeling 😂

Honestly, this thread is dead.

Doesn’t matter what anyone says, the OP will reject it.

Even when it goes to appeal — even if Trump loses the appeal — the OP will continue to reject what he’s not willing to hear.

Like I said — I’ll wait for the real lawyers.