The Truth about the Jehovah Witness

a reply to: Topcraft

THE PEOPLE ARE NOT EVIl, they have have been snookered!

What about the likes of those people that torture others for sport.

Are they not evil?

Look, I framed a personal memory from 50 years ago, and information that is easily found all over the internet, and formed an opinion. What is the value of an opinion?

You're asking me what the value of your own opinion is?

Those vary greatly depending on the context.

As to the rest of your post, i dont fancy being a Jehovah's Witness much myself.

Cheers for the warning all the same.

If you copy the url ile help you embed the link, and/or walk you through the process if you wish.

While I hate all organized religion and think its evil at its core, the the JW's are especially bad. They are the definition of a cult. Russell and Rutherford are both worthy of their own Behind the Bastards episode. For those unaware and interested, I would suggest looking into the child sex abuse cases again the dubs and some of the crap spewed by the governing body.

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: nugget1

I have felt nudges from outside of myself, so subtle but still there. A random thought or idea that is unlike me. A perfect opportunity presents to do the wrong thing.

If we all are have a guiding angel to watch over us it makes sense that we also would have the opposite force to influence us.
Have you ever been caught up in the ferver of a crowd and been influenced to join in an action completely out of charcter? I've experienced it at revivals and concerts. I've seen it in school and the workplace with bullying. If you don't consciously guard your thoughts you become vulnerable at an emotional level.

You can face things/events/information either logically or emotionally. Logic will say one thing while an emotional response might me the total opposite which ignores the hard, cold facts.

There ARE outside influences that govern us, which most people are unaware of. Moon phases comes to mind. Statistics prove there is an increase in violence, mental breakdowns, heart attacks, etc. on the eve of a full moon and to a lesser degree a new moon.
It's easy for me to imagine in a more primitave world that lacked scientific knoweledge it would be attributed to demons. Our forebearers may have been primative but they weren't stupid; they had knoweledge we're still just discovering.
When you compare modern terminology to primitavie descriptions you're looking at the same animal.

Some researchers suggest Christainity was created as a means of self-control of the populous, disconnecting us from our true potential. Gut instincts and 'collective consciousness' (Carl Jung) and the paranormal (anything unexplained activity we don't understand) were labeled as demonic.
Indeginous people still practice a personal relationship with 'The Great Spirit'. Shamans, medicinemen, Aboriginals, et al have a great deal of wisdom to share if one cares to inform themselves. Many have blended their tradition beliefs that rely heavily on an emotional/'paranormal' connection with the Creator and the modern version of Christainity.

Christainity claims to have the only door to heaven; I don't believe that for a single nanosecond.

a reply to: andy06shake

Well, I was pointing out that the majority are not evil. They have been deceived. And yes, I believe anyone who would torture another for sport is definitely evil, that goes for those who torture animals also. This is man at his worst. Someone who gets his rocks off causing another pain, is the very definition of evil.

I wasn’t asking anyone what they think of my opinion. Rather, telling you that you can’t trust my opinion. It’s worthless. You don’t know the accuracy of the information I used to form it. Your opinion on the other hand is certainly valuable. To you.

a reply to: andy06shake

What about the likes of those people that torture others for sport.

Are they not evil?

We're born a blank slate. The battle is between the good and bad potential within each of us.

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Or too busy admiring their newly church sanctioned facial hair.

One of the saddest things I ever saw was when a group of JW's came to my door and one of the ladies was totally blind. Poor thing believed she still had to ring those bells to get into heaven

I went to town and bought two signs; Beware of Dog and No Trespassing. It slowed the traffic some, but I really, really wanted it stopped, as I feared I was close to going postal.
I then posted a sign to my door: 'I will not discuss religion or politics with you'. Haven't had a doorknocker in the decade since.

a reply to: nugget1

I agree with almost everything you posted. Many believe that one of greatest gifts God gave man was free will. The ability to choose. Nothing is forced, or should be. The Bible is a guide, believe what it says, or don’t. I believe it. That doesn’t mean I am superior to anyone because I do.

Groups like JW want you to relinquish that free will to them. They don’t allow you think for yourself, or to question anything they say. How can this possibly be a good thing. I wouldn’t even think of forcing my beliefs on another person.

JW really get under my skin because they claim to be Christians. They concocted their own Bible, because without those changes, everything falls apart for them. Dishonest at the very least. It angers me because I know what a Christian is, I am a Christian.

As far as your parting statement, I really can’t say. What I believe is that Christ is a door to heaven, the largest and easiest to get thru. I found this one, why would I look for another that may not exist.

I noticed one thing about organized religion that remains a constant. The collection plate always makes its round among the faithful.

Organized religion is big business and it fits perfectly with American consumerist culture.

Tribalism, after all, is part of our evolutionary DNA. The need to identify with a group, to belong and commune with like-minded people is biological and that fact isn't lost on the clergy of all flavors or the guy selling $60usd bibles.

originally posted by: lilzazz
I noticed one thing about organized religion that remains a constant. The collection plate always makes its round among the faithful.

Organized religion is big business and it fits perfectly with American consumerist culture.

Tribalism, after all, is part of our evolutionary DNA. The need to identify with a group, to belong and commune with like-minded people is biological and that fact isn't lost on the clergy of all flavors.

Greetings lilzazz. I want to be clear I didn't read most of this thread as it is a way apparently for members on this website to vent and slander JWs. As there is a plethora of accurate information about them that can be found here: JW.ORG. I find threads like this akin to the ones that attack Freemasonry when there are Freemasons on this website that can verify or disabuse the spread of slander about them that is often done by the religious on this website.

All work done by Jehovah's Witnesses around the world is done free of charge, it is all voluntary and no money is paid to, or requested from anyone. There is a meager monthly stipend that is given to members of the Full-Time Order of Jehovah's Witnesses to help them with money for basic personal expenses they may have. These give up their works and homes to go live in branch offices where the work is directed, In order to be part of that order they take vows of poverty.

In any event I did want to let you know that JWs do NOT have a paid clergy OR any clergy for that matter. They believe what Jesus said:

"But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."-Matthew 23:8-12.

Titles such as Pope (which means Father) and other high sounding titles of the clergy are an apostasy of the truth and a direct contradiction of Jesus' own words found in the Bible they claim to represent.

Also there is no collection plate passed at the Christian meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses. Nor do they charge for anything. In fact you can go to that website and see all their publications and videos and movies and music videos, etc. etc. are all available for free online to stream or download in hundreds and hundreds of languages (actually over 1,000).

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Have a Paid Clergy?

I remember at a recent meeting hearing a report read that the majority of the countries JWs are poor and cannot even donate to sustain their own Kingdom Halls (where they meet regularly to study the Bible and praise Jehovah God and Jesus Christ with song and prayer). That around 35 countries that are more well to do off-set that. That is, the voluntary donations of the brothers in the first world countries are used to assist in the upkeep in the majority of the other countries in the world.

Because of the large increase in natural disasters, a large portion of donations is used to help brothers and sisters around the world affected by those things as well.

I think you'll find this following report heart-warming:

Helping Our Brothers When Disaster Strikes

2019 Coordinators' Committee Report

The LDC Program—Much More Than Kingdom Halls



For other site members here is a webpage that directs you to factual and accurate information reguards many questions about Jehovah's Witnesses:

Frequently Asked Questions About Jehovah’s Witnesses

Among many of the questions answered in that link here are a few:

What Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe?

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion?

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Tolerant of Other Religions?

Have Jehovah’s Witnesses Changed the Bible to Fit Their Beliefs?


In the first century many lies were spread by the religious leaders about Jesus Christ, and then about the newly formed Christian congregation he was directing. In the last days things have not changed. Jesus said that if they hated and persecuted and lied about him, they would do so about his followers as well. Many believed those lies and were prejudiced against Jesus Christ and his followers. Others however were more noble-minded and investigated whether what they were hearing was true or not. The Bible says concerning these honest Jews that wanted to hear directly from the source about these matters:

"They said to him: “We have not received letters about you from Ju·deʹa, nor have any of the brothers who came from there reported or spoken anything bad about you. But we think it proper to hear from you what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect, we know that it is spoken against everywhere.”-Acts 28:21-22.


Over the decades in many countries where Christendom has been losing its stronghold over the people their clergy would often blast publications of Jehovah's Witnesses from the pulpit and warn their followers from this "dangerous cult." Which almost always had the opposite affect than intended. It made people curious to know what they were teaching. And when they found that what they were teaching was from their own Bibles, and that their own Bibles were contradicting the teachings of their Churches, many people drew away from the Churches and became Jehovah's Witnesses.

Here is one example of how HUNDREDS of people from ONE Church left it to become Jehovah's Witnesses after studying the Bible:

How Hundreds Found Bible Truth

a reply to: nugget1

Nobody is born good or evil nugget1.

They are products of their environment.

It shapes us all you see one way or the other.

Most people land somewhere in between with the potential to do both.

originally posted by: randomuser2034
Titles such as Pope (which means Father) and other high sounding titles of the clergy are an apostasy of the truth and a direct contradiction of Jesus' own words found in the Bible they claim to represent.

Um ... no.

Matthew 16:18-19 [18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Jesus appointed Peter the first head of His church.
Jesus gave Peter full authority.
Peter instituted apostolic succession.

Jesus having a Church on Earth and it being led by an appointed man is exactly what Christ said to do.

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole
a reply to: Astyanax

Too busy working off the Memorial Day margaritas.

One of the saddest things I ever saw was when a group of JW's came to my door and one of the ladies was totally blind. Poor thing believed she still had to ring those bells to get into heaven

This reminds me of a recent experience of a brother who could see but not walk, and a brother who could walk but not see and how they helped each other to preach. The experience starts at the 7:18 mark. A truly heartwarming experience. And one that no doubt brings joy to our happy Father Jehovah's heart:

How Our Brothers Are Experiencing Disciple-Making Joy

a reply to: Topcraft

People who torture animals tend to go on to graduate to people, so there is that.

As to opinions Topcraft well those are like ars@holes, everybody has one, and other peoples tend to stink.

But they are important for several reasons like self-expression, critical thinking, learning and growth.

They are not worthless, and once they are formed, they can be rather hard to challenge or change.

As to Jehovis witnesses, well imho they are just misguided religious nutters praying for the end times by my guess.

Good and bad people in all walks of life through.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: randomuser2034
Titles such as Pope (which means Father) and other high sounding titles of the clergy are an apostasy of the truth and a direct contradiction of Jesus' own words found in the Bible they claim to represent.

Um ... no.

Matthew 16:18-19 [18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Jesus appointed Peter the first head of His church.
Jesus gave Peter full authority.
Peter instituted apostolic succession.

Jesus having a Church on Earth and it being led by an appointed man is exactly what Christ said to do.

When he said "on this rock" he was talking about himself not Peter. Later on in scripture we are clearly told:

"As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but chosen, precious to God, you yourselves as living stones are being built up into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, in order to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it says in Scripture: “Look! I am laying in Zion a chosen stone, a precious foundation cornerstone, and no one exercising faith in it will ever be disappointed.”

It is to you, therefore, that he is precious, because you are believers; but to those not believing, “the stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone” and “a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They are stumbling because they are disobedient to the word. To this very end they were appointed."-1 Peter 2:4-8.

Jesus is the foundation cornerstone on which the congregation was built. And yes the scripture clearly has Jesus telling his followers that they are not to have leaders or call each other their Father in a sense as a religious leader. All of which the Catholic Church does.

This reminds me of an experience once when a Catholic "father" entered a McDonald's back where I lived in his priestly vestments. And when the cashier called him "sir" he corrected her and said "it's 'father.'" She said that she worships God and Jesus says not to call anyone "father." He was quite put out by that but came back later and asked the woman to show him where it says that in scripture. She showed him. And he started a study with Jehovah's Witnesses. And renounced the Catholic clergy afterwards and became a baptized Witness for Jehovah.

originally posted by: randomuser2034
When he said "on this rock" he was talking about himself not Peter.

Jesus was talking to Peter and Jesus gave Peter full authority over His Church.

Matthew 16:18-19 [18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This reminds me of an experience once when a Catholic "father" entered a McDonald's back where I lived in his priestly vestments. And when the cashier called him "sir" he corrected her and said "it's 'father.'" She said that she worships God and Jesus says not to call anyone "father." He was quite put out by that but came back later and asked the woman to show him where it says that in scripture. She showed him. And he started a study with Jehovah's Witnesses. And renounced the Catholic clergy afterwards and became a baptized Witness for Jehovah.

I'm not buying that propaganda piece of JW fluff for a second. I'm sure it never happened. Catholic priests know that scripture quote IN CONTEXT very well, and Catholic priests know the dozens of other quotes from the New Testament in which the spiritual leaders call themselves the 'father' and call the disciples their spiritual 'sons' or their 'children'. No priest is going to give up being a priest because some McDonalds cashier takes the 'dont call people father' quote OUT OF CONTEXT and MISINTERPRETS it. Poppycock.

God's people use the term all through old and new testament.
JWs and Fundamentalists take the quote out of context.

Joseph tells his brothers of a special fatherly relationship God had given him with the king of Egypt: “So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt” (Gen. 45:8).

Job indicates he played a fatherly role with the less fortunate: “I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know” (Job 29:16)

God himself declares that he will give a fatherly role to Eliakim, the steward of the house of David: “In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah” (Isa. 22:20–21).

Elisha cries, “My father, my father!” to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12). Later, Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).

Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to “our father Abraham,” or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of “our father Isaac.”

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2).

He also referred to Timothy as his son: “This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare” (1 Tim 1:18); “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 2:1); “But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22).

Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4); “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10).

Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Peter called Mark his spiritual son - “She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13)

Paul writes, “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children” (2 Cor. 12:14); and, “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Gal. 4:19).

John said, “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1); “No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as “fathers” (1 John 2:13–14).

Call No Man Father? What that quote means in CONTEXT

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: KKLOCO

You sir will be invaluable to what I’m trying to accomplish here. I do not hate the people who call themselves JW. What I intend to do, is warn people of the consequences of following unsound doctrine. What I do hate, is the evil that spawned, and continues to snare people, that look for truth. My focus at this point in my life, is the JW. The HRCC is an entirely different can of worms.

I’m more than happy to help. I was a full time pioneer. Would have been appointed to a ‘Ministerial Servant’ within 6 months, had I stayed on the path. I left exactly one week before my 22nd birthday, back in November 2001. In reflection, it was the smartest decision I’ve made in my whole life. However, the consequences of losing all my friends and most my family have been difficult, to say the least. It’s incredibly difficult to replace a support group like that.

a reply to: randomuser2034

Hey RU,

First off, I think I’ve made it clear that I like you as a person. I think you and I could go back and forth about the JW’s for literally YEARS. However, I don’t want to do that, nor do I have the time.

What I would like to hear from you is a response about the origins of the JW Religion. You always seem to deflect discussion about this. There is no question that Charles T. Russel was a Freemason. There is also no question that he came up with the 1914 date, from measurements inside the Great Pyramid at Giza. What are the JW’s takes on these facts now? I couldn’t get an answer back in 2001 when I asked the elders in and around my congregation. Which helped me make my decision to leave.

a reply to: randomuser2034

Greetings Random User, I’m happy you showed up. Now we can continue the discussion from the other thread that was interrupted. Let me refresh your memory with two direct quotes from there. First up is what I said.


“From personal experience, I lived next to a family of JW when I was young. To make this short, 1975 came, and with it the JW prophecy of the end of the world, they talked about it constantly. Sold the house and a small business, and went to rural South Dakota to wait it out. That was the last I saw of them until the early 80’s when I ran into the son.

Obviously, it never happened. What did happen, is that they kept enough of what money they had to last till the end, and gave the excess to the JW organization. The end didn’t happen, they uprooted the family, and the JW would not give them back the money. When I met the son, he was living in the hippy district with a woman he wasn’t married to, and was using drugs. He never said what his parents did, but he felt that the JW ruined both his and his family’s life.”

Now let’s hear what you said.


“ To bring up a JW family you knew back 50 years ago that you didn’t like as a reason to hate all Jehovah’s Witnesses say TONS more about you than anything.”

Look anywhere in my statement and show me where I said I didn’t like those neighbors. Or that I hate all JW. I’ll wait.

The problem here is you either have extremely bad reading comprehension which I highly doubt, or you twisted what I said to prove your narrative. You are taught that every person of faith outside the JW hates you. Especially the Roman Catholics. stay away from them, they want to destroy you, block you from Jehovah God. You are terrified by that. You my friend are the one with eyes and ears closed to the truth. You are controlled by that fear. Or is there some other reason I haven’t mentioned?

This is a perfect example of what has been done to you, I doubt it was even a conscious effort to twist what I said.