I'm convinced...now more than ever

almost like someone did like an advanced DDos attack like an order was given

It was no DDos attack if preplanned. I don't know the database architecture or actual damage done so cannot comment. With just how passwords and emails was affected, got some questions, not many answers. Was it some act of god or some act of man? I don't know?

As for the inner workings of this site, lot I don't know either. Aiming for a reasonable discussion on a lot of difficult topics has been my impression over time. When I got hit with bans and deletions, it did help me pick up my game in debate. It ain't easy. Keep the emotion out, calm, factual and professional debate will kick a lot more goals than getting enraged about something. You will not win all the debaters over here. Winning over the lurkers is where it is at.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I'll probably still be lurking until the lights go out for good and there's always a chance something might change, but I'm not holding my breath.

I was going to say that whoever runs the admin account has an email from me if they ever intend to rehab the site, but it may very well have been lost when everything crashed.

There's another little curious thing I was reminded of when reading the last few posts. It's below in the reply to kwaka. You got me sucked back into this, lol.

a reply to: kwaka
There was one anomaly that I'm aware of. I still don't know exactly how it could happen. I don't know if it's been discussed before, but it happened during the October crash before the mods got hacked back in. Seems as good a time as any, since it was brought up that odd things were happening during the crash.

member post list

A couple things don't make much sense if you look at the member details. Their posts themselves seem to match what TheShadowKnows has learned from third parties, but look at the account info.

The registration date is after some of the posts listed. There are posts in the now inaccessible mud pit from April 12th. A number of threads in which Darko and Mrsdarko posted were deleted entirely before the mud pit was closed, which would explain the post count being so high with only five shown. To the best of my knowledge deleted thread posts would still show up as posts in the total on the avatar. The other two posts are in threads that still exist on the db, but access to the pit was blocked (as opposed to the threads being deleted). There was a big kerfuffle over that too, but I digress.

There's an applause on the account as well. It was there before DTOM and Djarums had regained access. I looked at the account the same day as the posts were made. This would seem to confirm that the account was older than the registration date. There were no mods to give applause at the time.

I don't know if anybody tried to register their old user name. I don't recall now if anybody mentioned trying that. From what I remember the recovery emails were lost and I know people had tried to recover their passwords... but I don't know if anybody decided to try registering the same name again, maybe with the same email.

If the fields for username and password were fouled up in one spot for logging in, it could be that the appropriate indexes were still in place elsewhere. So, once registered, the name would reassociate the member page with the old account data. I believe one would need access to the site at admin level to figure that out. I'm not a coder or a db admin. Somebody with experience may be able to confirm or deny my intuition.

Hopefully everyone has followed. Take note that this account first posted on April 12th in that pit thread, even though registration shows it didn't exist until October. Now, even though the display names are different, we have the pre-crasb account that shows an April 12th registration date under the old name in the member list.



I can only explain the space appearing in one name and not the other, while still seeming to share account details, as having to do with a prior update to the back end. I can't remember what was updated, but something happened with spaces and the way they had to be inserted in the urls. I don't know if that might be related, but perhaps the space was ignored on the back end even though the URLs required the Unicode or whatever for a space. That's a question perhaps somebody with more IT experience can answer or somebody with a better memory.

To me it appears that Mrsdarko signed up again (which would imply somebody was watching their emails or the site), the accounts linked due to something running parallel to the user/pw database that was lost/broken/deleted, and they were unable to do anything about regaining admin access. Then they just disappeared.

I know nothing about the current state of affairs. SkepticOverload was nothing short of emphatic that the site was not generating much revenue. The discussion we were having in trying to work up an offer, with just the public information, was mostly about finding a way to just keep the site running/updated and... maybe, big maybe, end up paying back those that were putting up money.

If TheShadowKnows is getting an accurate description of what happened then I would imagine the site was a letdown. If they thought they were buying a revenue stream at fire sale prices only to discover that it was actually a dumpster fire sale, I could imagine their disappointment. Many of us love the site, but the discussion board format is definitely a financial dumpster fire. It's very hard to plug this in to the other formats that are bringing in revenue just on user content. If not for the extensive moderation this site would probably already have been subject to further crackdowns. I've seen several attempts by activists to stir up a mob against ATS on other sites in the past few years, but the moderation is so tight that the efforts never have any legs. Having any extended period without moderation or response to certain issues from an admin, on a large public discussion forum, is a huge risk to staying afloat in the current political climate.

That would fit with the total neglect. The original owner had no idea what they were really getting into and passed it on to Darko, who then didn't really have anything to lose by walking away... or flying, fleeing, or wherever else he might be.

I think we have a pretty good picture if each of these pieces is correct. As for Darko being some state level actor or even a run of the mill propaganda farm, I see no evidence of any effort to swing the site toward some specific intelligence/propaganda mill agenda. Contrary to what some have claimed there was no banning of left wing sources. If anything, the agenda was to remove political discussion entirely. Darko also added a psyop disclaimer to the Q threads as far as I know, which was a compromise over deleting it entirely. That doesn't match with the victim fantasies of some members who, with no sense of the irony, ignore that this site is one of a small cohort that hasn't fallen under the globalist censorship regime they have been allowed to advocate for and defend from criticism here.

The same people found in scores of threads defending the US government violating constitutional rights and advocating for Nazi-style medical tyranny, now complain about imaginary persecution from the operator of a private forum they have no "right" to post on. They can cry me a river. There is no prohibition on posting left wing material. Just as there is no prohibition on calling out half-truths, hypocrisy, and transparent propaganda... which is the real problem they have with ATS. They don't have the cover of complicit moderation to hide behind, which has become their standard for fairness in the wider Internet experience where right wing opinions are routinely censored.

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by either the video or the link to that page.

originally posted by: Kangawoo2
Or maybe there was/is a thread that someone thinks is very important and needs to be monitored?

My bet is that it's someone in the Pentagon.

a reply to: ksihkahe

AFAIK, the MrsDarko BANNED account and "official" Mrs Darko are not the same person.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

IIRC, we determined that early on in the post lockout chaos.

originally posted by: ksihkahe
A couple things don't make much sense if you look at the member details. Their posts themselves seem to match what TheShadowKnows has learned from third parties, but look at the account info.

I don't think the posts match what happened.
For example, that post stating that the database was "trashed if not entirely broken" was not true, and the administrator would have access to the database, as it's independent from the access to the forum.

The registration date is after some of the posts listed. There are posts in the now inaccessible mud pit from April 12th. A number of threads in which Darko and Mrsdarko posted were deleted entirely before the mud pit was closed, which would explain the post count being so high with only five shown. To the best of my knowledge deleted thread posts would still show up as posts in the total on the avatar. The other two posts are in threads that still exist on the db, but access to the pit was blocked (as opposed to the threads being deleted). There was a big kerfuffle over that too, but I digress.

There's an applause on the account as well. It was there before DTOM and Djarums had regained access. I looked at the account the same day as the posts were made. This would seem to confirm that the account was older than the registration date. There were no mods to give applause at the time.

From what I have seen, it's possible that that account was hijacked by the person that messed with the database.

I don't know if anybody tried to register their old user name. I don't recall now if anybody mentioned trying that. From what I remember the recovery emails were lost and I know people had tried to recover their passwords... but I don't know if anybody decided to try registering the same name again, maybe with the same email.

If the fields for username and password were fouled up in one spot for logging in, it could be that the appropriate indexes were still in place elsewhere. So, once registered, the name would reassociate the member page with the old account data. I believe one would need access to the site at admin level to figure that out. I'm not a coder or a db admin. Somebody with experience may be able to confirm or deny my intuition.

It's not possible to register with an existing name.
Also, the names were not affected by the hacking, only the password and recovery email, that's why it was possible to regain access to the original accounts.

I can only explain the space appearing in one name and not the other, while still seeming to share account details, as having to do with a prior update to the back end.

No, they are two different accounts that share nothing except a similar name.

I can't remember what was updated, but something happened with spaces and the way they had to be inserted in the urls. I don't know if that might be related, but perhaps the space was ignored on the back end even though the URLs required the Unicode or whatever for a space. That's a question perhaps somebody with more IT experience can answer or somebody with a better memory.

A space is a character like any other and is not ignored either by code or by the database unless there is something that explicitly forces it.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: ksihkahe

AFAIK, the MrsDarko BANNED account and "official" Mrs Darko are not the same person.

Right, I caught that too when the 2nd mrs D showed up. I don’t remember exactly what gave it away but I knew that wasn’t the same person. That being said I’m not real certain that there ever was a Mrs Darko. At times it seemed as though the mr and mrs came off as the same person, I wasn’t alone in thinking this. I never questioned them publicly but other people did which the mrs denied but something seemed off with the writing style, tone and personality of it being two different people.

a reply to: ArMaP

I have a question. Can a mod or someone with more access to data know who stars a post? And can mods see PM’s sent between members? Just curious

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Mods can't see who stared who. I don't know if admins can. That information should be registered on the database to prevent people from staring more than once the same post, but I don't know if there is any part of the software that shows it.

The case for the PMs is similar, as there is no "control panel" (as far as I know) to show that member X sent a PM to member Y, although that information is stored on the database.

Unless the PMs are encrypted, a person with access to the database may read them, like in all messaging systems. They can also see who stared who.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: KrustyKrab

Mods can't see who stared who. I don't know if admins can.

AFAIK, admins cannot see that either. I know I could not before I was bumped back to SuperMod by darko.

And, no clue how it is set up in the database.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: KrustyKrab

Mods can't see who stared who. I don't know if admins can. That information should be registered on the database to prevent people from staring more than once the same post, but I don't know if there is any part of the software that shows it.

The case for the PMs is similar, as there is no "control panel" (as far as I know) to show that member X sent a PM to member Y, although that information is stored on the database.

Unless the PMs are encrypted, a person with access to the database may read them, like in all messaging systems. They can also see who stared who.

Okay thank you. 👍

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: KrustyKrab

Mods can't see who stared who. I don't know if admins can.

AFAIK, admins cannot see that either. I know I could not before I was bumped back to SuperMod by darko.

And, no clue how it is set up in the database.

Okay. To bad we couldn’t have demoted him and bumped you up.

originally posted by: ksihkahe

a reply to: kwaka
There was one anomaly that I'm aware of. I still don't know exactly how it could happen. I don't know if it's been discussed before, but it happened during the October crash before the mods got hacked back in. Seems as good a time as any, since it was brought up that odd things were happening during the crash.

member post list

Good catch. I did not pick up that MrsDarko was an old account at the time. Does add to they mystery of how this account slipped through the crash. There was also some mod activity detected before order was restored.

Who is still pulling strings?

Overall it sets an impression that someone / some group got into the backend of ATS. They did not want to fully kill ATS with that kind of access, but gave it a good shake up.

originally posted by: kwaka
There was also some mod activity detected before order was restored.

AFAIK that is not true.
EVERY member regardless of status was locked out.
The passwords and emails of everyone was scrambled.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Is the feeling still that it was due to a lack of back end maintenance? Or due to a malicious attack?

The reason I bring this back up is - look at the copyright at the bottom of this page. It says 2024. How is that possible, if no one has been in on the back end, since last year?

I’m pretty sure the date has to be changed manually, as ATS is 20 year old ancient coding.

I just noticed this when looking at your post now.

a reply to: ArMaP
I read through some other comments from earlier in the thread, but was past my edit limit so I couldn't change anything.

I don't think the posts match what happened.
For example, that post stating that the database was "trashed if not entirely broken" was not true, and the administrator would have access to the database, as it's independent from the access to the forum.

I had no idea that you saw the backend. Last I knew it was a crash and entirely broken until somebody fixed it. It wasn't working and the pw reset failed. Is that not trashed and entirely broken? I assumed they were only speaking to the username and PW portion of the db.

I'm confused by the conflict with what you're saying below, that somebody else had access and was messing with the db. Couldn't that cause issues for admin login credentials?

From what I have seen, it's possible that that account was hijacked by the person that messed with the database.

If somebody messed with the database aside from the person that got access back then that's information that hasn't been presented to me previously. I was led to believe the ultimate issue was a crash/maintenance issue after many different theories about a hack or Darko making some error. It doesn't explain how some of the things I'm mentioning at the end of this reply were changed.

A space is a character like any other and is not ignored either by code or by the database unless there is something that explicitly forces it.

After posting I was reading back through this thread and saw that this account was discussed. It requires a + sign where the space is and it was you that pointed that out. Now that I can view the account none of the other account information matches. I'm not sure why you're saying that a space is a space when you were the one that pointed out that in an URL... a space is not a space, but a +. It's obviously pointing to something when the space is there and it isn't the member page.

Were spaces not allowed in account names previously and were enabled by one of the updates? It was discussed when it first happened, but I couldn't tell you where. Seems superfluous at this point though.

No, they are two different accounts that share nothing except a similar name.

If it was the result of somebody messing with the database, that still doesn't explain the applause (which is a mod function not an admin function, no?) or the posts that occured before the registration date. It seems unlikely that somebody could find these locations in the db to edit in order to make those things show on the account. We've been told many times by current and previous ownership that even correcting singular systemic errors is difficult, threading the needle to add specific posts and account stats would seem a bridge too far unless it was pure chance.

The only person that has been able do things like that previously is the same person that got Djarums and DTOM back in.

At any rate, the Mrsdarko anomaly is independent of my overall assessment that TheShadowKnows information matches what I gathered from various sources. I would imagine you have access to most of those sources as well. The site was abandoned for a while and the owner was disappointed with revenue. Darko showed up as "caretaker" or whatever, but then he abandoned the site as well. I don't think any of that is in dispute. There are those that believe Darko is multiple people, the owner, and it was even posited that he was just a hacker. In any case, it matches what another third party has told TSK for the most part.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: ksihkahe

AFAIK, the MrsDarko BANNED account and "official" Mrs Darko are not the same person.

Yes, I couldn't remember how to view the old account before reading back through the thread and seeing it was mentioned to use a + for the space. The stats don't match, but the banned account is definitely an anomaly.

I stand by my comments about the idea of a state level actor or propaganda mill, and that TSK is getting information that mostly jives with what I've seen. The liability of leaving a forum like this unattended and the prospects of revenue generation are likewise still true. There may be some stuff that doesn't necessarily match exactly, but some of that is probably down to the perception of whoever is providing the details.

I hadn't thought about the Mrsdarko anomaly since when it happened and it will soon be forgotten again, I'm sure.

Luckily, someone has set up a place to go. The sooner this site isn't moderated the sooner the transition will be fait accompli. As I pointed out, shortly after moderation ceases, GoDaddy or whoever is fielding the registration complaints will probably be forced to mothball the site if the owner isn't responding. Many love the site, but it's not reasonable for you all to remain swabbing the decks on a rudderless ghost ship for years. I'll send you a DM with more of my concerns about that as it relates to the mods, which you can share with the rest if you wish. If I post it here it will just give one of the turd-burglars a vector to attack the site.

originally posted by: kwaka
There was also some mod activity detected before order was restored.

At the time I didn't see any.

Who is still pulling strings?

The banned member they talk about in that thread was banned 2 days before the hacking of the site.