Bibi’s Dilemma

a reply to: KrustyKrab
You are right, they should be prosecuted. On a related note, what do you think about idf's war crimes? Should they be prosecuted too? I was just watching a documentary about ex idf soldiers and what they were doing during their service. Seems like atleast some of them were torturing palestinians, plain and simple. I wonder what happened to those soldiers. I wonder if the people with same mindsets are still serving in idf,the "most moral army in the world". I wonder what those that were tortured thought about idf and israel as a whole while being tortured.
youtu.be...

a reply to: jofafot

What war crimes has Israel committed? Not saying they haven’t, just curious what you think they are.

a reply to: KrustyKrab
Really? You are going to play definition of war crimes game? Well, I am not playing it. Have fun watching the video by the way.

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole
So there isn't a huge reserve of LNG under Gaza anymore? What happened to that facet of the story?

Good point! I'm sure they are hoping that not too many know about that and those that do have forgotten.

For a very long time I have puzzled over what truly motivates the United States to support the Zionist regime...
Is it needing a middle eastern ally for the sake of oil reserves?
Is it largely driven by the Christian Zionist lobby (John Hagee, evangelicals, et al)?
Holocaust guilt?
The $50 +- million a year that the Israel lobby buys congress with?
The seemingly inexhaustible money laundering capability that turns tax dollars into foreign aid into MIC profits into paydays for the pigs in warshington?

I added the LNG reserves to that list of possible motives when I heard about it.

It's probably a combination of things, but I definitely lean toward the old adage of 'follow the money.'

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: KrustyKrab
Really? You are going to play definition of war crimes game? Well, I am not playing it. Have fun watching the video by the way.

You can’t answer can you🙄

originally posted by: Ergovens
a reply to: AliceTheSmall

Contrary to the media propaganda that had been challenged quite a lot, there are not many countries that support Israel in their ethnic cleansing campaign and in their efforts to kill as many innocent civilians as possible and then blame it on the existence of Hamas.

As the matter of fact everywhere in Europe, Latin America and other places in the World there is very strong solidarity with the Palestinian people who have been slaughtered and and with tens of thousands of deaths over the last 7 months.

Yes! This is true!

The fact that my own country has been funding this abomination (with my hard earned tax dollars!!!) without any accountability for so long is almost as appalling to me as what is being funded.

I was somewhat heartened to hear that the Biden administration finally halted an arms shipment to Israel...depriving them of some 2,000 lb and 500 lb bombs, basically - and what on earth do they need 1 ton bombs for, anyway!?!!?
However, I'm not holding my breath to see too much resistance. I hope I am pleasantly surprised to the contrary but for the amount of backbone America supposedly has had, it is a joke. I'm not sure we ever were really the heroes we are told that we were...and I don't mean the regular soldiers and civilians but rather the gate keepers of the American myth of spreading democracy every where we go like some sort of cross between Uncle Sam and Johnny Appleseed.

World War III might surely be a class war fought with words, electronically, and something we've been embroiled in for quite some time now.

a reply to: jofafot




imeu.org...

originally posted by: Degradation33
You know, when you start a topic with, "The Zionist Regime".

What should I call it then?

They are already Great Satan and Little Satan, that's about the most condemnation you can get with bias titles.

Deserved condemnation.

And please don't call Hamas a political movement. They are a cold-hearted angry group of jihadist and even The King of Jordan knows this.

I didn't. What I said was

The UN considers Hamas a political movement, not a terrorist group, even after October 7, 2023.

Regarding the article you quoted, none of those accusations were ever supported with any evidence whatsoever. Not one shred. I'm not saying terrible things didn't happen...but these sort of claims are exactly what I was referring to with

Every lie that they’ve told has been designed to persuade and continually enthrall the world into taking their side, few questions asked, in their 75 year imperialist campaign,

a reply to: KrustyKrab
I won't answer because of two reasons:
1. You didn't answer my question. You only accepted idf committed war crimes(" Not saying they haven’t"). My question was "what do you think about idf's war crimes?". It was NOT "what do you think about these specific war crimes I'll list". If you are not answering any questions but always asking them do not expect an answer from me. That's not how a conversation works. What you are trying to do is probably best described as an interrogation.
2. You tried to bait me into arguing about definition of war crimes, which made me think you are replying/arguing in bad faith, which is basically trolling.

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: KrustyKrab
I won't answer because of two reasons:
1. You didn't answer my question. You only accepted idf committed war crimes(" Not saying they haven’t"). My question was "what do you think about idf's war crimes?". It was NOT "what do you think about these specific war crimes I'll list". If you are not answering any questions but always asking them do not expect an answer from me. That's not how a conversation works. What you are trying to do is probably best described as an interrogation.
2. You tried to bait me into arguing about definition of war crimes, which made me think you are replying/arguing in bad faith, which is basically trolling.

Oh ffs please, you’re being ridiculous. You and the rest of the socks here won’t answer the question because it shoots down your “genocide” theory y’all keep repeating. Perfectly legal to bomb civilian dwellings, hospitals, schools, mosques, businesses, tunnels, etc…when they are being used to hide and harbor military combatants, weapons and ammo. So I want to know what specific war crimes Israel has committed??? I mean you keep running your mouth about IDF war crimes, yet you or OP can’t tell me what they are specifically. I don’t know of any war crimes that Israel has committed. Why, because there is no proof that I’m aware of that they’re just killing Palestinians indiscriminately for chits and giggles. Do you have proof? Tell me what war crimes IDF has committed. This should be easy for you and the OP to answer since it’s all I hear from y’all.

a reply to: AliceTheSmall

Israel will do *whatever* it has to maintain it's borders and protect it's people.

Just like the United States of America will.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Period, end of story.

If terrorists openly attacked America or it's people, they should be eradicated. Vaporized.

This isn't some game or thought exercise. This is for keeps.

In my opinion, Israel should totally eradicate Hamas. Who cares what the "UN Community" thinks? It's not their people getting raped & killed.

I am not Jewish. I am Catholic.

On a final note, people throw around the "zionist" word like it's evil. If you want to talk history, the Jews were there 5,000 years ago. They have more right to that land than almost anyone. Stick your "zionist" nonsense up your ass.

People need to wake the f#ck up.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

On a final note, people throw around the "zionist" word like it's evil.

To be honest I don’t think they really know what it means. I’ve looked it up several times trying to find something bad about it. Apparently wanting to have a secure and solid homeland is a bad thing to the puppets that keep repeating it. 🤷‍♂️

a reply to: jofafot

You only accepted idf committed war crimes(" Not saying they haven’t").

And once again with the reading comprehension you seem to be struggling with. “Not saying they haven’t” is not admitting that “they have”. You keep trying to put words in my mouth I didn’t say.

So, back to the idea of Bibi being between a rock and a hard place.

With the IDF entering Rafah finally, a few things coalesced in my mind and a theory for Bibi's motivation became quite clear to me.

First a little background.

After Bibi Comes the Messiah

About 30 years ago, the late Lubavitcher Rebbe told a young Netanyahu that “he, Benjamin Netanyahu, will be Israel’s prime minister, who will pass the scepter to the Messiah.” The Lubavitcher Rebbe said this during the election campaign in the 1990s, before Netanyahu’s first term in office. Today, Israel is in a kind of apocalyptic mood, Bibi is prime minister and the scepter is in his hand. Will Netanyahu, the nation and the world soon welcome the Messiah?

This apocalyptic messianic idea is not just from the Christian perspective, in regard to the PM, but also from the Jewish:

His voters, in part, saw in Bibi God’s anointed one, the Messiah and King David, a hero who has no competition among the people. Not only in the country but also abroad, Christians rave about God’s messengers on earth, especially in the USA. From their perspective, Bibi was not replaceable, and that was true for a while. This of course angers his opponents, who cannot handle the fact that Bibi is being glorified like a messianic figure and messenger of God despite his political shenanigans. In Israel, too, many people saw Benjamin Netanyahu as a savior.

Netanyahu is facing serious corruption charges that are on the back burner for now because of the 'war' with Hamas. He was also losing favor with his constituents...which is nothing new, really...his popularity has always waxed and waned with the Israeli population, but now he is also facing angry and frustrated crowds over the hostage situation. His war cabinet is threatening to kick him to the curb if he does not complete the carnage in Rafah.

So right now, he stands to lose EVERYTHING....or then again, he might be able to pull off a miracle and subsequently go down in history as the man who finally succeeded in claiming all of Palestine in the name of Zionism for Jews everywhere (even those true Jews who wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!), clinching the ultimate goal of a national home for an exiled people...no longer in exile! After millennia, the promised land would be no longer just promised but achieved. And who did this, generations from here on out will ask? And the resounding cheers will answer it was Bibi! He will be remembered forever, maybe even in the same month that the Holocaust is remembered, too, who knows? Not to mention, he will remain in power until he dies and all legal threats will be a thing of the past. Forever!

I personally don't see how it won't be an abject failure for him and his cabinet, but I do actually believe in miracles.

If a miracle DOES come out of all this, it will be more of the "Let My People Go" sort and it won't be Jacob's offspring, but Ishmael and Esau's...aka the other Semites in this story.

I'm praying for a miracle without ceasing!!

a reply to: KrustyKrab

You and the rest of the socks

Generalization is bad. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are "socks".

won’t answer the question because it shoots down your “genocide” theory y’all keep repeating.

Please find and quote atleast one of my posts where I claimed or talked about genocide, specifically about israel committing genocide since that's EXACTLY what you are suggesting I did.

Perfectly legal to bomb civilian dwellings, hospitals, schools, mosques, businesses, tunnels, etc…when they are being used to hide and harbor military combatants, weapons and ammo.

Yes, and? What is your point? I fail to see it because I don't remember claiming otherwise. What are you arguing against? Are you trying to make a counter argument to an argument that doesn't exist?

So I want to know what specific war crimes Israel has committed?

Why don't you tell me? Since you said:
"What war crimes has Israel committed? Not saying they haven't"
You must know about them. So what do you think? By the way, that was the original question you keep avoiding answering.

I mean you keep running your mouth about IDF war crimes

This is the first time I wrote about it. Feel free to prove otherwise, if you can.

I don’t know of any war crimes that Israel has committed.

You said "not saying they didn't" and now you changed it to "they didn't". These two statements are mutually exclusive. They are exact opposite of each other. You either think they did commit war crimes or didn't commit war crimes.

Why, because there is no proof that I’m aware of that they’re just killing Palestinians indiscriminately for chits and giggles. Do you have proof? Tell me what war crimes IDF has committed. This should be easy for you and the OP to answer since it’s all I hear from y’all.

I've already provided proof in the form of a documentary video where ex-idf soldiers explains what is going on inside idf. Not my problem you ignored it. Ever remember the time when I said "have fun watching the video by the way?" No? I thought so. But you do remember things I didn't even say. What a WEIRD coincidence. Don't bother posting a "clever" reply because I won't reply to you anymore as I find it a waste of my time. Because I think you are not here to argue using logic or here to have an intellectual discussion, at all. I don't think you have good intentions. That's all I'll say to you.

Found this that explains “Zionist” fairly well. I have no idea why someone would be against this, except the fact that they’re ignorant and uneducated on the subject.

most people have no idea what the word “Zionism” means. At lunch recently with a friend who is Jewish and deeply knowledgeable about politics, she illustrated just how serious the misunderstanding is. After two hours of talking about progressive activism, her eyes widened in horror when I noted that I am a Zionist. “Doesn’t that just mean you’re against Palestinian rights?” she asked. “Of course not,” I replied, and asked her if she knew what the term Zionist actually means. She didn’t.

I explained to her that Zionists are simply people who believe in the right of Jewish people to have self-determination in their ancestral homeland. Rather than supporting a specific administration or everything Israel does, “Zionism is Jewish self-determination,” Sara Yael Hirschhorn, visiting assistant professor in Israel studies at Northwestern University’s Crown Family Center for Jewish and Israel Studies, told me recently. “It’s co-signing that Israel should exist, that Jews have a right to self-determination no more or no less than any other nationality, that Jews are not only a religion but they’re also a people and a nation, that they have the right to have control over their own affairs, that their existence is not only predicated on being a minority in some other country.”

www.jta.org...

a reply to: jofafot

You said "not saying they didn't" and now you changed it to "they didn't". These two statements are mutually exclusive. They are exact opposite of each other. You either think they did commit war crimes or didn't commit war crimes.

Ummm jeez you’re not understanding and I already told you why once. I’ll try one more time. I’m saying that, I’m not aware of any war crimes that Israel has committed. I’m also saying that I have no definitive proof that they haven’t committed war crimes. In other words I don’t have firsthand knowledge to honestly say either way. Make sense now?

I keep hearing the term “genocide” n “war crimes” over n over but no one is willing to say exactly why. I actually would like to have a civil intellectual discussion on the topic, many of us here would. It’s very difficult to do that when people are just blah blah women blah children blah blah genocide blah blah Israel war crimes blah blah blah but they never back it up with any proof when asked, they always deflect. They also NEVER admit all the war crimes that hamas/Palestinians have committed because it doesn’t work with their narrative. This crap is getting old. I wasn’t even going to reply to this thread until I read the ridiculous tripe being said.

a reply to: cherokeetroy

Those killings were in response to the arabs doing it first. It was Eye for a eye vengeance was all.

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: jofafot

imeu.org...

Palestine ceased to be after the Ottoman empire took over in a legal sense.
Modern palestinians are not descendents of the group who originally were in Israel/judea.

Modern ones are made up of Exiles,scum,terrorist,criminals and relgious zealots.

Yasser Arafatt confirmed this in a interview one day when he was caught on a hot mike in a interview on a talk show in th emiddle east somewhere in the 70-80s era.
Arafatt calls them the magical palestinian people.
The PLO,and KGB also were involved in redubbing the exiles,criminals,terrorist,and scum "palestinians" as a poke at Israelites being redubbed Palestinians,by Rome.

In short you can post all you want but THOSE people are not worth your sympathy except as a fellow human being.

"clear evidence" of war crimes by both Hamas and the Israel Defense Forces
all those who have violated international law and targeted civilians must be held accountable"
en.m.wikipedia.org...



www.reuters.com...