Those Fake Death Numbers From Hamas Out Of Gaza

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
They have a 5th grade level of education, are more concerned about female penises, than the real world.

As someone else said, what we are reading here sounds like it's coming from a 15-year-old in their first social studies class with a SJW / CRT / DEI / LGBT teacher. O so smug ... proclaiming Hamas propaganda ... thinking they are brilliant and evolved when in fact they are just indoctrinated and being used.

The statistics professor from Wharton showed that statistically the numbers coming from Gaza are impossible. That's just the science of it. And it's common sense. Others will claim that the numbers are just fine. Thats devoid of rational thinking but whatever. The bottom line is that Hamas can't be trusted and that no one really knows how many dead people are in Gaza .. and no one would be dead there if Hamas hadn't attacked Israel and if they would have given up the hostages.

One of the problems is that most SJWs never got beyond basic math. There's a reason they're pursuing gender studies degrees and other nonsense at college. Real degrees require math. Things like percentages, fractions, and statistics confuse them and you can't get a good grade just because you included the right buzzwords as you bull#ted your way through a paper.

So showing them a statistical analysis of how the numbers are complete nonsense does nothing. They quite simply don't have the brainpower to understand it, much less critique it. All they can do is point to a competing analysis by a group that's been shown to be collaborating with Hamas.

It's really weird how SJWs are so defensive of Islamic extremists, who generally hate everything SJWs value. A possible explanation is that they feel some kinship with how fanatically dedicated Islamic extremists are to their cause, which mirrors the fanaticism of SJWs. Social justice is essentially a religion for them, and like Islamic extremists, they will blindly follow it to whatever end, and believe any and all methods are acceptable to advance their cause, including lying, cheating, and killing.

originally posted by: Echo007
Israel military not doing anything to avoid killed civilians in Gaza.

This right here exposes you as not having the slightest clue what you're talking about. It absolutely destroys any shred of credibility you might have had. The only way you could possibly believe this is:

a. you JUST discovered this issue 5 minutes ago
b. you stopped digesting new information 5 minutes after you discovered this issue

Either way, the extremeness of your ignorance cannot be overstated.

originally posted by: HopeForTheFuture
a reply to: FlyersFan

No one really knows how many have died.

If, as you say, no one knows, how are you able to affirm that the data is false?

Is the logic center of your brain really this flimsy?

I'll give you an extraordinarily simple example of how you can know an answer is false without knowing the correct answer.

You are shown the burned out remnants of a car. Someone claims 100 people burned to death in that car.

You can identify the make and model of the car and look up the available occupancy space and even add in some of the other areas you could possibly have stuffed people into, like the trunk.

You can then compare that available space to the volume of a human and calculate that 100 people couldn't possibly have fit in the car.

You know for a fact that the claim that 100 people burned to death in the car is false, without having any idea how many people actually died.

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: PsiOPs
a reply to: FlyersFan

Others will claim that the numbers are just fine. Thats devoid of rational thinking but whatever. The bottom line is that Hamas can't be trusted and that no one really knows how many dead people are in Gaza ..

Those accounts from the PA aint the only numbers we have, so the science on this subject disagrees with you.

There are certain building blocks of society that require agreement for us to work well collectively. Society is weaker and discourse less productive if we cannot agree on at least a few basic things. In the case of Gaza, acknowledging that there was an appalling and extremely deadly attack on October 7th, and that over 30,000 Gazans have died since, mostly women and children, seems like the most basic of cornerstones of reality on which to move toward constructive discussion and eventual resolution.

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza

Other studies are calling BS on the numbers. There is nothing absolute or credible about the death toll unless you think that the “media” numbers being reported are going to be accurate. I think we all know that there is no way they’re going to be accurate, it’s improbable to say the least. There’s no doubt that the toll numbers are being manipulated as well as the gender demographics.

Read the article and it will start making sense and lead to better understanding of the graph.

In the first month of the war, the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health (MOH) in Gaza relied on its existing collection system, made up primarily of hospitals and morgues, to certify each death. Starting in early November, however, hospitals in northern Gaza began to shut down or evacuate during the Israeli ground invasion, spurring the MOH to introduce a new, undefined methodology for counting fatalities: media reports. This methodology, which the MOH has rarely acknowledged publicly, accounts for the majority of fatalities reported over the past four months, surpassing the traditional collection system.

www.washingtoninstitute.org...

Read the article again, and tell me the scientists would need any number from the PA. Or the UN, for that matter.

The science is pretty clear on this, and you didn't even reply to that. So why bother to address me if it's just you cherrypicking statistics without reference to the more complicated stochastics at play here?

The US counts graves by using drone and satellite images.
Not that Hamas would not dig fake graves.
30,000 graves cover a lot of area.
3 foot x 6 foot x30000 = 50 167.6416 m2. or 540000 ft2 with no space between graves.

originally posted by: PsiOPs

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: PsiOPs
a reply to: FlyersFan

Others will claim that the numbers are just fine. Thats devoid of rational thinking but whatever. The bottom line is that Hamas can't be trusted and that no one really knows how many dead people are in Gaza ..

Those accounts from the PA aint the only numbers we have, so the science on this subject disagrees with you.

There are certain building blocks of society that require agreement for us to work well collectively. Society is weaker and discourse less productive if we cannot agree on at least a few basic things. In the case of Gaza, acknowledging that there was an appalling and extremely deadly attack on October 7th, and that over 30,000 Gazans have died since, mostly women and children, seems like the most basic of cornerstones of reality on which to move toward constructive discussion and eventual resolution.

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza

Other studies are calling BS on the numbers. There is nothing absolute or credible about the death toll unless you think that the “media” numbers being reported are going to be accurate. I think we all know that there is no way they’re going to be accurate, it’s improbable to say the least. There’s no doubt that the toll numbers are being manipulated as well as the gender demographics.

Read the article and it will start making sense and lead to better understanding of the graph.

In the first month of the war, the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health (MOH) in Gaza relied on its existing collection system, made up primarily of hospitals and morgues, to certify each death. Starting in early November, however, hospitals in northern Gaza began to shut down or evacuate during the Israeli ground invasion, spurring the MOH to introduce a new, undefined methodology for counting fatalities: media reports. This methodology, which the MOH has rarely acknowledged publicly, accounts for the majority of fatalities reported over the past four months, surpassing the traditional collection system.

www.washingtoninstitute.org...

Read the article again, and tell me the scientists would need any number from the PA. Or the UN, for that matter.

The science is pretty clear on this, and you didn't even reply to that. So why bother to address me if it's just you cherrypicking statistics without reference to the more complicated stochastics at play here?

Nice word salad. No, their is no science to this. This is about the actual death toll which btw is impossible to know considering all the different entities reporting. Do you understand that?

Did you even understand what they are explaining?

a reply to: KrustyKrab

This is about the actual death toll which btw is impossible to know considering all the different entities reporting.

"This" very thread heads for something else entirely, but we seem to agree on some basics. Nice attitude there, Krab! May I borrow some of that juicy lettuce for my salads?

Fresh information that proves the statistics professor quoted in the opening post is right. Statistically speaking, the claims of civilian dead, and the stats Hamas claims about how many women and children have been killed, are impossible.

Now Hamas admits that 1/3 of the numbers they have given out as 'dead civilians' can't be verified in any way and they may even be made up (no surprise there).

Federation for the Defense of Democracies

The Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health said on April 6 that it had “incomplete data” for 11,371 of the 33,091 Palestinian fatalities it claims to have documented. In a statistical report, the ministry notes that it considers an individual record to be incomplete if it is missing any of the following key data points: identity number, full name, date of birth, or date of death. The health ministry also released a report on April 3 that acknowledged the presence of incomplete data but did not define what it meant by “incomplete.” In that earlier report, the ministry acknowledged the incompleteness of 12,263 records. It is unclear why, after just three more days, the number fell to 11,371 — a decrease of more than 900 records.

Prior to its admissions of incomplete data, the health ministry asserted that the information in more than 15,000 fatality records had stemmed from “reliable media sources.” However, the ministry never identified the sources in question and Gaza has no independent media.

“The sudden shifts in the ministry’s reporting methods suggest it is scrambling to prevent exposure of its shoddy work. For months, U.S. media have taken for granted that the ministry’s top-line figure for casualties was reliable enough to include in daily updates on the war. Even President Biden has cited its numbers. Now we’re seeing that a third or more of the ministry’s data may be incomplete at best — and fictional at worst.” — David Adesnik, Senior Fellow and Director of Research

“It is important to recognize that Hamas is deeply invested in shaping the narrative that emerges from Gaza, particularly regarding the number of casualties in the war. Moreover, this control of data extends beyond the statistics provided by the Hamas-controlled health ministry, as there is also a deliberate effort to downplay the number of terrorists who have been killed by Israel in the war, potentially numbering more than 10,000.” — Joe Truzman, Senior Research Analyst at FDD’s Long War Journal

Wall Street Journal - Hamas Numbers Game with "Civilian" Death Counts and Casualty Data

Foundation for the Defense of Democracies - 5 Things to Know About the Hamas Run Gaza "Health Ministry'

The recent Al-Ahli incident further undermines the ministry’s credibility
On October 16, 2023, media outlets around the world reported rapid claims made by the Gaza Health Ministry that Israeli missiles struck the al-Ahli hospital, killing around 500 Palestinians. The U.S. intelligence community assessed that a Palestinian rocket likely caused the damage and estimated that 100 to 300 people died at the hospital, while a European official put that figure at below 50. The Washington Post and Wall Street Journal, among others, later revised their coverage and reported that evidence strongly favored a Palestinian rocket as the cause of the blast. Relatedly, the ministry’s data includes Palestinians killed by other Palestinians. In August 2022 clashes, for example, errant Palestinian rockets caused one-third of the reported Palestinian fatalities. The Israel Defense Forces estimated that nearly one-fifth of the Palestinian rockets fired at Israel during that conflict malfunctioned or otherwise fell short of their target.

The Gaza Health Ministry death tolls do not distinguish between civilians and combatants

The ministry does not distinguish between civilians and combatants in its count. Its casualty figures also do not identify the circumstances of death, making it impossible to identify terrorists who died in the initial assault on Israel or during the Israeli defensive operations that followed. Within days of the gruesome attacks of October 7, 2023, Israeli officials reported they recovered the bodies of 1,500 terrorists in Israel. The Health Ministry has not clarified whether or not these individuals are counted on its registry. Hamas’s casualty count might also include Palestinian minors and adults aiding Hamas fighters in an auxiliary capacity. Analysis from The New York Times during the 2014 Israel-Hamas war found that men ages 20 to 29 were the most overrepresented among the dead. Hamas also employs fighters above and below that range, but this is a strong indication that Israeli attacks targeted and succeeded in eliminating Hamas terrorists.

A reminder of what that fresh data on Hamas fake numbers helps verify ...
The statistics and math ... just do not add up.

The statistic that gets me ... .If Hamas told the truth about the numbers, that would mean that Israel hadn't killed any civilian men. It would all have been women and children. That's impossible.


Hamas’ Gaza death toll stats are pure fiction

Wyner’s critique is damning: The daily reported death tolls rise in a straight line, about 270 a day — which makes zero sense, since in any war, some days see far greater fighting and bombing than others.

Also, the ministry claims that 70% of the dead are women and children, while Hamas admits to losing 6,000 of its (male) combatants — which would mean that almost no male civilians have been killed.

The obvious conclusion is that the ministry is just (clumsily) making it all up. It’s definitely not presenting real info gathered from across Gaza.

The graphs and the math are at the link -

Hamas's Gaza death toll is exaggerated or faked, statistics expert claims

A professor of Statistics and Data Science at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, Wyner provided a detailed analysis of the data from the Gaza Health Ministry, which showed that they had, at the very minimum, been doctored – and at worst, completely faked.

"Most likely, the Hamas ministry settled on a daily total arbitrarily," he concludes. "We know this because the daily totals increase too consistently to be real. Then they assigned about 70% of the total to be women and children, splitting that amount randomly from day to day. Then they in-filled the number of men as set by the predetermined total. This explains all the data observed."

He also highlights that by Hamas's own admission, 6,000 Hamas fighters have been killed, which if combined with Hamas's data on deaths, shows that 20% of the total deaths are combatant while 70% are women and children. This implies that "Israel is somehow not killing noncombatant men, or else Hamas is claiming that almost all the men in Gaza are Hamas fighters."

How Hamas "Gaza Health Ministry" Fakes Casualty Numbers

Here’s the problem with this data: The numbers are not real. That much is obvious to anyone who understands how naturally occurring numbers work. The casualties are not overwhelmingly women and children, and the majority may be Hamas fighters.

... and useful idiot tools in the West eat this crap up ....

I'll post a short quote, but the whole article is very interesting.
Terrorist spokesman reveals how they manipulate the media with lies
in order to create a false narrative on what is happening in Gaza.
(and that includes the supposed number of dead civilians)

Palestinian Jihad Spokesman Reveals Gaza Propaganda Playbook

A spokesman for Gaza’s second-largest terror group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), shared inside information on the organization’s propaganda tactics and its cynical manipulation of the media during an interrogation with Israel’s military intelligence agency following his arrest at Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City last month.

"Most international media will undoubtedly not even mention the revelations of this Islamic Jihad spokesperson in their reporting," Simon Plosker, editorial director at HonestReporting, an Israeli organization that monitors coverage of Israel in the international press, told Fox News Digital.

"If they did mention it, then they would have to call into question their entire coverage of the conflict, which would highlight how the foreign press has either been manipulated or even willingly participated in a sophisticated terrorist propaganda operation at Israel’s expense."

"Moreover, their modus operandi also fundamentally relies on creating the impression that they are the victims of oppression and tyranny," said Hassan. "For that purpose, the killing of their own and civilians generally is to them an aim that serves a greater purpose.

"Groups like Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad know exactly what they’re doing — causing extreme harm to innocents by exploiting civilian cover, then blaming Israel for it and using the resulting international outrage to tie Israel’s hands," Friedman, who explored the international media’s bias on Israel in an explosive 2014 column.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I'll post a short quote, but the whole article is very interesting. Terrorist spokesman reveals how they manipulate the media with lies in order to create a false narrative on what is happening in Gaza.

lol who runs over 90 percent of the media.. its not the people of Palestine.. two state solution is coming..

originally posted by: purplemer
lol who runs over 90 percent of the media.. its not the people of Palestine..

It's not the people of Israel ... nor their government ... nor Jews in diaspora.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Not so sure about that.. have a look at Ruport maxwell for example. MOSAD.. Who is his daughter.. Ghislane Maxwell .. MOSAS,... you dont get away with blackmailing american presidents with wet criminality unless you have a good methof of protection.. Doe 36...is a clinton for example.

a reply to: purplemer

Doe 36...is a clinton for example.

Does 36?

Can you elaborate? Or is that too much to ask?

It means nothing to me.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

That's Bill Clintons code number in the Epstein files that were released.
Nothing to do with this topic at all.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

Sorry no problem.. The Epstein court case has a list of names these names have been coded.. Doe 36 is the name in court for bill clinton.. He visited the island many times and is blackmail fodder for MOSAD

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: SchrodingersRat

That's Bill Clintons code number in the Epstein files that were released.
Nothing to do with this topic at all.

Yes it ties in very well. it shows the length that MOSAD goes to the protect the narrative in their favour. Just like this false narrative you are peddling( (hamas death toll)...The media is owned by these same network.. Its a lie and its coming out.

truth of the matter is you are all well off the ball with whats happening.. 5th gen.. lol

Washington Institute - Gaza Fatality Data Has Become Completely Unreliable

In the first month of the war, the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health (MOH) in Gaza relied on its existing collection system, made up primarily of hospitals and morgues, to certify each death. Starting in early November, however, hospitals in northern Gaza began to shut down or evacuate during the Israeli ground invasion, spurring the MOH to introduce a new, undefined methodology for counting fatalities: media reports. This methodology, which the MOH has rarely acknowledged publicly, accounts for the majority of fatalities reported over the past four months, surpassing the traditional collection system.

A comparison of the two methodologies, using MOH reports and claims published by the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO), yields wildly different and irreconcilable results, indicating that the media reports methodology is dramatically understating fatalities among adult males, the demographic most likely to be combatants. This undercuts the persistent claim that 72 percent of those killed in Gaza are women and children—a problem that has worsened since it was first noted by a Washington Institute report in January.

12000 dead Hamas.
And Hamas will claim them all as civilian "palestinian' deaths.

IDF Says 12000 Hamas Fighters Killed in Gaza War

The Israel Defense Forces said Monday that troops have killed some 12,000 of Hamas’s estimated 30,000 gunmen in the Gaza Strip since war erupted on October 7, after a Qatar-based official for the terror group claimed it had lost half that number — some 6,000 fighters — during the four-month-old conflict.

Hamas is also believed to have thousands of operatives who are seriously wounded and unable to fight.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The Palestinian death toll has surged to 34,596 as Israel continued its deadly offensive on the Gaza Strip since last October, the Health Ministry in the enclave said on Thursday.
Source dated on 05/02/2024

IDF Says 12000 Hamas Fighters Killed in Gaza War
Source dated on 02/16/2024

Subtracting the IDF figure from February gives a figure of 24,596 civilians killed by Israel.

How does Israel know that there are 12,000 Hamas fighters? Israel does not know the number of civilians it kills, but it does know the number of combatants?

Do you have a more up-to-date IDF source that talks about figures?