Reincarnation is there proof .

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Venkuish1
I think the point was that the author of that online article is using the same kind of woo that you claim to be avoiding, so why did you use their article?

Exactly. I guess it's all down to which woo a person is willing to accept as fact.

a reply to: Venkuish1

You could look into the cases yourself, but if you’re going to automatically believe all these people are lying, and try to stuff all unexplained phenomena in the same box, then there really isn’t much point. You’re mind is already made up. It doesn’t make you correct about the matter.

Who can explain all the reports of ufo phenomena? Because these things are as yet “unknown” it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I’m going to give my own anecdotal experiences.

Short history:

Born and raised in a very strict religion (that did not believe in reincarnation).
Very sheltered.
Wasn’t able to watch anything above PG rating until I was around 11 years old.

So when I was 4 years old I had a series of dreams in the span of several month. In one dream I was walking down a large staircase to what appeared to be a dungeon of sorts. It felt like the 16th or 17th century. People were being tortured and even decapitated. I remember exiting the staircase and looking around in utter disbelief.

The second dream I have far more memory of. It was the revolutionary war. Red and blue coats. I was with several other soldiers walking through the woods. My comrades went ahead of me to scope out something. When I caught up with them, to my horror — they were being raped by the enemy. My adrenaline kicked it and I went ballistic on the perpetrators, killing them all. It was Mel Gibson in the movie The Patriot.

Now, at 4 years old, I had absolutely no point of reference for either of these dreams. Never seen anything near the violence of the first dream. For the second dream, I didn’t even know what gay people were as that’s not allowed in the religion. I didn’t even know what sex was, let alone gay sex between men. In fact, I was 12 when I finally got the birds and the bees talk.

Additionally, I suffered from night terrors until I was about 8 years old. Screaming at the top of my lungs calling for people that my family had no idea who they were. All with my eyes wide open. Nothing pulled me out of them. They even tried smacking me and pouring water on me. I’d wake up the next day and go in to my moms room. She’d say “Do you remember your night terror last night?” My answer was always “No”.

Where did all this come from? I had absolutely no point of reference for any of it….

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Venkuish1
But you cited and linked the article as if its content was true and supported your argument.

...if you ask me then I will say the same thing about discarnate entities/overshadowing and possession.

That is the point.

It does support the argument reincarnation is not true because even someone who has beliefs in the paranormal doesn't find reincarnation possible. Imagine now people who don't accept the world of the paranormal like myself.

originally posted by: AllisVibration
a reply to: Venkuish1

You could look into the cases yourself, but if you’re going to automatically believe all these people are lying, and try to stuff all unexplained phenomena in the same box, then there really isn’t much point. You’re mind is already made up. It doesn’t make you correct about the matter.

Who can explain all the reports of ufo phenomena? Because these things are as yet “unknown” it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Never claimed these people are lying or they are not genuine (this can happen in some cases but that was never my point). There could be a number of genuine people just like the example I gave you where some villagers in Brazil truly believed they saw Virgin Mary and she spoke to them. Is their experience true? Did Virgin Mary appear to them? Is Virgin Mary a historical person? Can women get pregnant through divine intervention?

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Venkuish1
I think the point was that the author of that online article is using the same kind of woo that you claim to be avoiding, so why did you use their article?

Exactly. I guess it's all down to which woo a person is willing to accept as fact.

This is the third time I have to explain this but I will do it again to make it clear where I stand. I will quote my post to AllisVibration

Reincarnation is not real given there is no evidence in support of it and the same is true for discarnate entities/personalities. I just thought the link was interesting and that's why I used it but it shows another aspect of the story that even the people who believe in the paranormal don't believe in reincarnation.

If you want to take issue with the link it's better if you take issue with reincarnation as a concept.

I did link another article written by an MD earlier in this thread that describes the way I feel about it.

Link on Page 3

Reincarnation is a highly contradictory and controversial philosophical-religious and cultural concept. Belief in reincarnation has some epistemological implications. It is a belief in the absence of valid empirical data. There is no scientific evidence to prove reincarnation. The suggestive cases of reincarnation (past-lives” testimonies) cannot be independently verified, and there are psychological and cultural factors that can influence such claims. These testimonies are the products of social conditioning rather than actual memories of past lives. From a scientific and empirical standpoint, the concept of reincarnation remains unproven and subject to skepticism.

originally posted by: AllisVibration
a reply to: Venkuish1

You could look into the cases yourself, but if you’re going to automatically believe all these people are lying, and try to stuff all unexplained phenomena in the same box, then there really isn’t much point. You’re mind is already made up. It doesn’t make you correct about the matter.

Who can explain all the reports of ufo phenomena? Because these things are as yet “unknown” it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

UFO Phenomena are distinct to reincarnation. You can get plenty of evidence on UFOs and they don't seem to belong to the paranormal world. Videos and photographs exist showing clearly some unidentified flying objects (not something paranormal).

a reply to: Venkuish1
You sincerely believe reincarnation is false because you cannot prove it. Then in you post you give a link to a site that promotes a phenomenon called "overshadowing", a separate entity "occupying a domain of consciousness close to the Earth" saying it's proof. Did you actually read the site? The guy who has said this actually states that it is a Postulation. You do know what a postulation is? It aint fact it's an idea so it aint proof.

a reply to: AllisVibration

Have noticed that many are not as at-ease, floating-around in the unknown, as some of us are.

Can things like reincarnation even be determined true or false ?

My world isn't a digital, true or false world.
It's an analogue, multi-faceted wonder, with many options.

I'm up here, sitting on the fence, 'cept it's not just a fence : it's an observation deck.
We got chairs, hammocks, snacks, and entertainment !

Reincarnation is not in my experience, so not true in that sense.
Yet : there is much compelling " evidence ."

But sometimes : a story is just a story ...

I don't know, so : maybe ?

originally posted by: Venkuish1
the example I gave you where some villagers in Brazil truly believed they saw Virgin Mary and she spoke to them. Is their experience true? Did Virgin Mary appear to them?

Entirely possible.

When someone claims the Virgin Mary spoke to them, the Catholic church will at times investigate it. Most of the time the church comes back saying that it is not of supernatural origin (mental illness, a mistake, something natural, etc). Sometimes it comes back with a condemnation saying it is deceitful - either the person is lying or it is a trick of the demonic. Every so often it comes back with a ruling saying 'worthy of belief'. They don't say that it actually happened, but they say that if you wish to believe it, there is nothing about it that goes against the faith. Such as in the story of Mary appearing to three children in Fatima Portugal .

I have been to Medjugorje and Betania. Both Marian apparition sites. I was present during a Marian apparition in Medjugorje in 1991. I was with 2,000 people praying the rosary on a mountaintop. I, and the 2,000 other people, saw things that are impossible. Things like you'd see in a Spielberg movie. Things like out of the old Charlton Heston Ten Commandments movie.

Now ... you won't believe that. You don't want to believe it. But it's true.

Is Virgin Mary a historical person?

Looks like it.

Can women get pregnant through divine intervention?

Apparently one did.

a reply to: FlyersFan
"Can a woman get pregnant by divine intervention"? Of course she can, if you call the doctor divine then it's called artificial insemination. It a regular thing now.

a reply to: Venkuish1
That is a stretch.

That is like saying one person's belief in god A but not god B supports your argument that there is no god.

We get that reincarnation isn't real, is your opinion. There really is nothing more for you to contribute to the conversation, is there?

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Venkuish1
You sincerely believe reincarnation is false because you cannot prove it. Then in you post you give a link to a site that promotes a phenomenon called "overshadowing", a separate entity "occupying a domain of consciousness close to the Earth" saying it's proof. Did you actually read the site? The guy who has said this actually states that it is a Postulation. You do know what a postulation is? It aint fact it's an idea so it aint proof.

No because the burden of proof is not on me but on those who claim reincarnation is true and real.

I have already addressed this earlier but you guys don't seem to read what I have posted. The link I provided shows that even people who believe in the paranormal think reincarnation is not real.

I personally can't accept the overshadowing claims or the possession claims and reincarnation because there is not a shred of evidence in support of them.

Did you read my posts? Because you are the fourth person which has commented on my original link like it's problematic when in reality it plays against reincarnation.

Another article I have posted is from an MD who more or less describes things the way I feel about them.

You don't read the posts I am afraid and the fact you are making the same point after i have answered others with exactly the same comments shows you need to read the posts.

You have fallen into this trap just like everyone else. The problem isn't the link for your side but the fact there is no evidence to support the claims made for reincarnation.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Venkuish1
That is a stretch.

That is like saying one person's belief in god A but not god B supports your argument that there is no god.

We get that reincarnation isn't real, is your opinion. There really is nothing more for you to contribute to the conversation, is there?

No it' doesn't as is not a good argument. It shows in my opinion that reincarnation is not even acceptable to those who are religious and believe in the paranormal.

Most importantly there is no evidence to support the reincarnation claims.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: FlyersFan
"Can a woman get pregnant by divine intervention"? Of course she can, if you call the doctor divine then it's called artificial insemination. It a regular thing now.

Did Mary then get pregnant with the help of a husband or there was some magical moment that helped the process. Why she is called Virgin Mary? Can you remind me?

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Most importantly there is no evidence to support the reincarnation claims.

Some was already posted. It's easily googled. People who have memories and knowledge that they didn't gather in this life, but when investigated those memories and that knowledge turns out to be true.

You can keep saying over and over 'there is no evidence' .... but that's not true.

Anecdotal.
I thought you skeptics didn't pay attention to anecdotes?

a reply to: Venkuish1

a reply to: FlyersFan


No matter what it is, they'll say it doesn't count.
It's their manna. No use trying.

The documentaries are interesting.
I was a past life experiencer myself.
Someone knowing details they had no prosaic access to is at
very least evidence of psychic abilities. LMAO.
There is "skeptical", then there is "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND THAT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I SAY SO!!!!"

Appeal to Authority gets used a lot too, namely "If it was real the mainstream would have accepted it by now."
Cut to the present day, and the mainstream only just now accepting that aliens have probably visited Earth.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Most importantly there is no evidence to support the reincarnation claims.

Some was already posted. It's easily googled. People who have memories and knowledge that they didn't gather in this life, but when investigated those memories and that knowledge turns out to be true.

You can keep saying over and over 'there is no evidence' .... but that's not true.

Well , According to this Former Corporate Lawyer , It's REAL ..........

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Venkuish1
Most importantly there is no evidence to support the reincarnation claims.

Some was already posted. It's easily googled. People who have memories and knowledge that they didn't gather in this life, but when investigated those memories and that knowledge turns out to be true.

You can keep saying over and over 'there is no evidence' .... but that's not true.

Personal experiences are personal experiences and are not proof or evidence of reincarnation. If the bar was so low every single experience can be named as evidence and need no further scrutiny or actual evidence to support whatever claims made.

Earlier post and link available in my posts.

Reincarnation is a highly contradictory and controversial philosophical-religious and cultural concept. Belief in reincarnation has some epistemological implications. It is a belief in the absence of valid empirical data. There is no scientific evidence to prove reincarnation. The suggestive cases of reincarnation (past-lives” testimonies) cannot be independently verified, and there are psychological and cultural factors that can influence such claims. These testimonies are the products of social conditioning rather than actual memories of past lives. From a scientific and empirical standpoint, the concept of reincarnation remains unproven and subject to skepticism.

More or less he is right.
That's what I think too.