Are we on ATS to proselytize or learn?

a reply to: abcdgoldfish

It was more or less a fun way of saying powerful religious interests of people in Western governments + a mutual desire for the holy land = supporting and propping up a friendly nation that opposes the Muslim claim.

I need to research what you’ve just written. I believe people do nasty things. But in order to accept what you’ve just said about intimidation, I need to know more. I’ll need to find the news articles and about how we know who did what.

They may “be dogs” to intimidate, but I want to know who “they” are. Part of what I revile is the generalizations that label “all” of a class as being the same as a few of the class.

a reply to: Degradation33

Putting it this way makes it easier for me to hear. But it also makes you wonder how did the “religious interests” pull that off. I might be very naive; I don’t understand how that could happen without breadcrumbs. Unless you’re saying that it’s not a secret and that the details are available somewhere.

a reply to: Degradation33

a reply to: DBCowboy

Lol... what snowflakes, and here i thought those people are self conscious resilient humans, but they are like the green haired they/thems in the wake of criticism... Boohoo I'm so threatened by the violent criticism society is giving me...

Help me, I'm a threatened minority! evacuate me from those violent opinions...

Now i understand the loud critique, can't have others get that minority status and use it to justify their idiocy...

Only one part of humanity is chosen by God to be snowflakes.
Don't melt away, you haven't seen the best yet...

originally posted by: namehere
palestinians aren't semites, they are Arabs that lived where semetic peoples used to, Jews left because Islamic oppression, slavery, genocide,etc, they came back only because the west wanted to reclaim what the Muslims stole from us and jerusalem was within our reach at that moment, anatolia and such are too populated to use the same strategy to gain control over them and reconvert them to orthodox and zoroastrian, the end goal is to reclaim the whole middle east for the west and drive out Islam. you didn't think we've been in the region just for oil did you? or that the chaos after we mostly left iraq was an accident? or the handing over afghanistan to the taliban? its all intentional and every one of those situations benefited us even though they are all seen as "failures" on the surface by many people.

taliban hate iran as much as we do and are effective against isis and suppressing illegal opium production, its just revisiting why we supported them originally after the Soviet union left, also they hate communists as much as we do so that's a big plus.

This

a reply to: Degradation33

You would think that I would have learned by now to backup what I spent an hour writing before attempting to post.

But Noooo! The esoteric PTB decided that my login cookie was expired sometime during that hour.

So is the Foundation Stone a breadcrumb?

Is the temple mount the center of the created World? Or is it just that enough people think that it is that matters?

Zionism was a minority position among Jews until the holocaust. The holocaust became another origin story alongside the Exodus story. Zionism thus became the vast majority position along with Western Bible based belief in, and sympathy for a Neo-Israel nation.

But Nakba occurred after the U.N. Charter forbidding "spoils of war" territory acquisition.

If only the Nakba had been completed before Israel signed on to the U.N. But it wasn't.

Plus: I located a doctoral thesis Snell, Rachel A., "Jedidiah Morse and the Crusade for the New Jerusalem: The Cultural Catalysts of the
Bavarian Illuminati Conspiracy" (2006).

a reply to: Terpene

Turns out that event you are referring to, did not actually happen.

originally posted by: abcdgoldfish
Fourth, if someone is confident in equating all Palestinians with Hamas, let’s also include all Germans as Nazis, all Americans as White Nationalists. (If you as an American haven’t done anything to stop White Nationalism, even if you don’t participate in it, you must support it, right?)

Hamas was allegedly allowed to build underground bases beneath hospitals. That does imply important citizens in Gaza may support Hamas.

My money and my kid go to UCSD.

Like hell would we put up with that nonsense.

I knew it wasn’t true.

If they would of said “They Chinese have overrun us”.

I would of bit...

originally posted by: abcdgoldfish

Fourth, if someone is confident in equating all Palestinians with Hamas, let’s also include all Germans as Nazis, all Americans as White Nationalists. (If you as an American haven’t done anything to stop White Nationalism, even if you don’t participate in it, you must support it, right?)

I find this an interesting statement. Let's say only 20% fully support Hamas in their efforts to remove Israel. You know, we are still talking 400,000 people in Gaza ready to do whatever Hamas wants them to do, is that scary at all? Let's move it to just 10%, does 200,000 people make it any less scary?

I have always said not every Muslim is extreme, and most want to be just like us.. have a good life, take care of their families, and see their kids prosper. BUT, let's say 20% (being kind in both percentages) support extremism at a level they are willing to do what they think is correct no matter how horrendous it might be. That would be about the population of the US, so does 350 million people bother anyone here? I have always said it's not a full Muslim issue but it is still a numbers issue in how many are extremists even if we are only talking 20%.

if you’re saying that Israel is simply trying to reclaim what was stolen from them, then you’ve given me a new perspective. You’re trying to take land from the Palestinians; they want to keep their land regardless of what the British or anyone else did. If that’s the simple version of what’s happening, calling Hamas terrorists is disingenuous. They really are just fighting for their land. just like the Israeli’s committed terrorists acts during the period preceding the creation of Israel, Palestinians (Hamas) are doing the same to keep their land and regain their human rights.

I suppose the mistreatment of Palestinians for decades has been a way to try and subjugate them rather than just go in and kill them. Now you think you have an excuse.

a reply to: Allaroundya4k

Note before: I don’t exactly believe what I’ve written below; I’m simply taking what somebody else said and interpreting the potential consequences of that view.

Based on what allaroundya4k said (which I’m sure I may have misinterpreted), the Palestinians have a right to fight for their land as much as Israel has a right to try to keep as much land as they can. In that world view there is nothing to be afraid of. Each side is fighting for what they think is right. The “innocents” who are dying are inherently on the side that they were born in and they are fairly or unfairly fodder for the larger battle. Perhaps this is why the battle continues and all the hand wringing by people sympathetic to the massacres (my word, I admit) of innocents going on is just bleeding heart foolishness. In this world view, yes human rights are important, but the fight for land is more important. (And by the way, the parties are then justified in making false promises and then ignoring them or reneging on them for decades)

What do you think about this?

a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: abcdgoldfish
Perhaps this is why the battle continues and all the hand wringing by people sympathetic to the massacres (my word, I admit) of innocents going on is just bleeding heart foolishness. In this world view, yes human rights are important, but the fight for land is more important. (And by the way, the parties are then justified in making false promises and then ignoring them or reneging on them for decades)

Define their land. Where they are right now is not some indigenous land they have lived on for 1000 years. It was where Jordan and Egypt put them 70 years ago when they would not let them integrate into their countries. Israel also had a hand in it after they won a few wars and pushed them more tightly to where they are today.

I have said many times "their land" is actually in Egypt and Jordan but 1 foot to the east and south they ignore it as their land and only want Israel's land. This isn't just a fight for them to own land it is also a fight to remove Jews in the process too. If tomorrow Israel said, screw it, Gaza and West Bank is your land and we will remove once again (like they did already) any traces of Jews there and you are now free to do as you want, the fighting would not stop.

a reply to: abcdgoldfish

It would depend on many factors, such as various sects of Christians trying to convert others to their religious beliefs which may come across as proselytizing, and indeed actually is proselytizing and teaching scripture as interpreted by them.

Other factors may include implicit bias where the ultimate goal may be proselytizing although they might think they are trying to teach others what they believe is a truth or their reality.

As for posting misinformation/disinformation, I honestly think quite a few people here select specific media that feeds their actual bias'/beliefs, so is that intentional? I am beginning to think it can be intentional with some people here because that absolutely refuse to look at any counter views.

So perhaps if one truly believes in a narrative then it may include both proselytizing and an attempt to teach then convert others to what they believe as a truth.

My issue are those here that refuse to look at both sides so any attempt to convert or teach is a disingenuous endeavor because they expect others to look and muse over at their information/sources but refuse to accept any counter information.

a reply to: abcdgoldfish

I've learned that in the land of Canaan they still sacrifice children openly with empassioned resolve.