Keir Starmer suffers major Labour rebellion over Gaza ceasefire vote

a reply to: Freeborn

"None of the above"!

Vote early, vote often....

a reply to: Freeborn

This in turn fostered and bred anti-semitic attitudes in many Labour politicians, workers and advocates.

That's where you lost me, it's disgusting to see big gubbermint criminalize free speech. We all know where this leads to. At least have the decency to spare us Netanyahu's gaslighting when you already gave up on your conscience, and the entire notion of speaking truth to power on #ing ATS?

a reply to: Insurrectile

That's where you lost me, it's disgusting to see big gubbermint criminalize free speech.

Where have I mentioned government criminalising free speech?

At least have the decency to spare us Netanyahu's gaslighting......

Where did I mention anything to do with Netanyahu?
What on earth are you talking about?

.... when you already gave up on your conscience,.....

Stop talking #e.

.... and the entire notion of speaking truth to power on #ing ATS?

???

a reply to: Freeborn

This is exactly why Starmer didn't just suffer defeat, but was also blind enough to not see it coming, and act accordingly. But you go right ahead, and blame Labour for the general increase of Antisemitism during a genocide the Israelis launched in their own backyard?

a reply to: Insurrectile

I tried to give an insight into The Labour Party's well documented recent history of anti-semitism - as futile an exercise I knew it would be - and the problems Starmer faces.

They pandered to Muslim sensibilities in an effort to gain votes.
In doing so they fostered an environment that bred anti-semitism within its own ranks.

The post made no reference to or has no relevance to government 'criminalising free speech' or Netanyahu, yet that's what you replied with?
Bizarre.

Oh, and Starmer wasn't defeated.

originally posted by: Insurrectile
a reply to: Freeborn

This in turn fostered and bred anti-semitic attitudes in many Labour politicians, workers and advocates.

That's where you lost me, it's disgusting to see big gubbermint criminalize free speech. We all know where this leads to. At least have the decency to spare us Netanyahu's gaslighting when you already gave up on your conscience, and the entire notion of speaking truth to power on #ing ATS?

Agree very much!
They're trying hard to criminalise free speech but having the opposite results. Almost everyone is talking about the crimes committed by Israel in Gaza and looking forward to more protests in the future.

It's likely there would be more rebellion in the Labour Party over this.

Don't forget that a few weeks ago a Labour MP was suspended and a Conservative MP was sacked because they supported a ceasefire.

a reply to: Leviathan4

"Criminalise free speech"?????!!!!

No one is doing that.

Still no clue about UK politics.

No one cares what Labour thinks.

They are a minority party.

Democracy, remember?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Speech crimes.

Speech crimes are certain kinds of speech that are criminalized by promulgated laws or rules. Criminal speech is a direct preemptive restriction on freedom of speech, and the broader concept of freedom of expression.

Laws vary by country in accordance with the legal principles that form the basis of their system of jurisprudence. Prohibitions on shouting fire in a crowded theater (as a practical joke, not as a warning) are not considered controversial in any country, given the potential for imminent harm.
en.wikipedia.org...

Freedom of anything is an illusion.

a reply to: Leviathan4

They're trying hard to criminalise free speech.....

If they are trying to 'criminalise free speech' how come approximately 300,000 people were allowed, and protected, to march through London on Remembrance weekend of all weekends expressing their support for Hamas terrorists and in opposition to government and the opposition party's stance?

Surely if that was true the demonstration would have banned and the police would not have protected their right to protest and free speech?

Almost everyone is talking about the crimes committed by Israel in Gaza.....

According to who?
Who have YOU spoken to to support and corroborate this statement?

You know nothing about UK politics, UK culture and UK current events....yet you apparently know more than those of us who live here?

a reply to: Freeborn

Plus the only real fighting on that day was when the far right marched to 'protect' the Centotaph (chanting during the two-minute silence, because they were too thick to know what it signified) from a protest that was going no-where near it and then clashing with the police who told them to go away.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Leviathan4

They're trying hard to criminalise free speech.....

If they are trying to 'criminalise free speech' how come approximately 300,000 people were allowed, and protected, to march through London on Remembrance weekend of all weekends expressing their support for Hamas terrorists and in opposition to government and the opposition party's stance?

Surely if that was true the demonstration would have banned and the police would not have protected their right to protest and free speech?

Almost everyone is talking about the crimes committed by Israel in Gaza.....

According to who?
Who have YOU spoken to to support and corroborate this statement?

You know nothing about UK politics, UK culture and UK current events....yet you apparently know more than those of us who live here?

They're trying of course but who says they have succeeded?

From my post above

They're trying hard to criminalise free speech but having the opposite results. Almost everyone is talking about the crimes committed by Israel in Gaza and looking forward to more protests in the future.

I think you're talking to yourself by the way.

The other comment you made about Hamas support has been debunked again and again. It's not wise to keep bringing up debunked arguments into the conversation.

Are you bothered that Israel has committed war crimes and crimes against humanity? Probably you are. And according to those who can read and understand the basics, Israel is condemned for its actions. Pretty much the entire world with the exception of hard liners in Israel, warmongers and insane people, and some Evangelical Christians here in the US...

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg2
a reply to: Freeborn

Plus the only real fighting on that day was when the far right marched to 'protect' the Centotaph (chanting during the two-minute silence, because they were too thick to know what it signified) from a protest that was going no-where near it and then clashing with the police who told them to go away.

The far right in the UK and in the US seem to be supporting the actions of Israel and the war crimes they have committed so far. They are ideological cousins by the way so the they give unequivocal support to the Israeli Government.

But Labour in the UK seems to be in real trouble. Massive rebellion with 56 MPs say no to the party line. Other Labour councillors have already resigned. It's just a turmoil which I really enjoy.

That's what happens when you're not on the right side of history.

a reply to: Leviathan4

They're trying of course but who says they have succeeded?

You're ridiculous.
The government and Police were quite adamant that the demonstration would go ahead specifically stating Freedom of Speech.
Yet quite bizarrely you claim they are attempting to restrict Freedom of Speech.
The very fact the march went ahead proves you are WRONG.

Why did you mention Netanyahu when the posts you replied to made no mention of him?
The thread is about Keir Starmer and The Labour Party.

You said Keir Starmer was defeated, he wasn't.

The other comment you made about Hamas support has been debunked again and again.

By whom?
When?
Where?

It's not wise to keep bringing up debunked arguments into the conversation.

Yet you consistently do it in post after post after post in thread after thread after thread; the same old same old repeated incessantly despite being disproven over and over again.

But Labour in the UK seems to be in real trouble.

They are in that much trouble that if a General Election was to be held tomorrow they'd gain a landslide victory with a massive overall majority.

And you do know that The Labour Party are left wing don't you?
I know this has been pointed out to you before but you seem incapable of understanding that very simple basic fact.

Massive rebellion with 56 MPs say no to the party line. Other Labour councillors have already resigned

The vast majority Muslims and 'tofu eating wokerati'.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Leviathan4

They're trying of course but who says they have succeeded?

You're ridiculous.
The government and Police were quite adamant that the demonstration would go ahead specifically stating Freedom of Speech.
Yet quite bizarrely you claim they are attempting to restrict Freedom of Speech.
The very fact the march went ahead proves you are WRONG.

Why did you mention Netanyahu when the posts you replied to made no mention of him?
The thread is about Keir Starmer and The Labour Party.

You said Keir Starmer was defeated, he wasn't.

The other comment you made about Hamas support has been debunked again and again.

By whom?
When?
Where?

It's not wise to keep bringing up debunked arguments into the conversation.

Yet you consistently do it in post after post after post in thread after thread after thread; the same old same old repeated incessantly despite being disproven over and over again.

But Labour in the UK seems to be in real trouble.

They are in that much trouble that if a General Election was to be held tomorrow they'd gain a landslide victory with a massive overall majority.

And you do know that The Labour Party are left wing don't you?
I know this has been pointed out to you before but you seem incapable of understanding that very simple basic fact.

Massive rebellion with 56 MPs say no to the party line. Other Labour councillors have already resigned

The vast majority Muslims and 'tofu eating wokerati'.

They have been trying but they haven't succeeded. It's pointless to write whole essays to try to convince the audience.

You asked what comment I am referring to
Here it is, unless you don't remember what you're writing down or conveniently forget

300,000 people were allowed, and protected, to march through London on Remembrance weekend of all weekends expressing their support for Hamas terrorists and in opposition to government and the opposition party's stance?

Did you conveniently 'forget' and you pushed the debunked argument that protestors are Hamas supporters....

You said that those people are Hamas supporters. Well ..prove it. It has been debunked again and again but if you insist then it's all yours.

You seem to be all over the place with your arguments.

Your next left wing Government is in trouble long before they are voted in power.

If you want to claim that all MPs who voted for ceasefire are Muslims then you can show it. Are they?

Most of the world is in support of ceasefire. Only the hard line supporters of Israel, ultra right wing fascistoids and Evangelical Christians are against. And the insane of course.

Start by proving the debunked argument that all those protesters are Hamas supporters and then show that all those MPs are Muslims. You make like very difficult for yourself.

a reply to: Freeborn

I forgot to ask you whether you're in support of ceasefire or you support the actions by the State of Israel and the war crimes committed by them and the crimes against humanity.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

"Criminalise free speech"?????!!!!

No one is doing that.

Still no clue about UK politics.

No one cares what Labour thinks.

They are a minority party.

Democracy, remember?

And who put your guys in charge, it wasn't a vote for Boris. Was it?

So what was that Braverman sacking about, if not the search for a Betterman? You think we better ignore her efforts to mess with Metro police in order to criminalize a protest?

originally posted by: Leviathan4

They most likely don't represent those who vote for them. I don't think the Brits in their majorities are in favour of this war and they have shown it with major protests all over their country. Most likely they will lose the next election but it would have been great if they were on the right side of history. But they chose to give support to their ideological cousins in Israel i.e some ultra right wing fascistoids.

I don't think anyone is in favor of this including Israel. Some things just need to be done while everyone wishes it was different. The only cheers are from Hamas in their 1200+ victory kills...

Also who gives a F to what the Brits think about what is going on in ME? I said this before...its really nice to sit back in a comfy chair drinking tea 2300 miles away and tell another country what they should do.

That is so British, isn't it? lol

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4

They most likely don't represent those who vote for them. I don't think the Brits in their majorities are in favour of this war and they have shown it with major protests all over their country. Most likely they will lose the next election but it would have been great if they were on the right side of history. But they chose to give support to their ideological cousins in Israel i.e some ultra right wing fascistoids.

I don't think anyone is in favor of this including Israel. Some things just need to be done while everyone wishes it was different. The only cheers are from Hamas in their 1200+ victory kills...

So we're still doubling-down on the 20 year old tactics of The War on Terror™, despite repeatedly showing that engaging terrorists in such a way as to kill many many noncombatant civilians, who were not holding a gun before, will pick up a gun NOW because their wife, husband, sons, daughters, and/or babies just became "collateral damage."

Also who gives a F to what the Brits think about what is going on in ME? I said this before...its really nice to sit back in a comfy chair drinking tea 2300 miles away and tell another country what they should do.

Yes, I, for one, and very grateful to have never been in a situation where I was deemed an expendable collateral-damage animal.

That is so British, isn't it? lol

It's humanity. It's humane. Ceasefire. Stop killing innocent people.

Or are you using a special one-of-a-kind personal definition of Human?

Also who gives a F to what the Brits think about what is going on in ME? I said this before...its really nice to sit back in a comfy chair drinking tea 2300 miles away and tell another country what they should do.

That is so British, isn't it? lol

Actually sipping a cup of tea in Britanistan right now reading this lol
Totally agree, it matters # all what Brit's think about world events really, we're a tiny nation with a tiny military now.
If it weren't for nuclear weapons, and our usefulness of making dirty cash clean for oligarchs, we'd be as irrelevant as the Isle's of Scilly!

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor

So we're still doubling-down on the 20 year old tactics of The War on Terror™, despite repeatedly showing that engaging terrorists in such a way as to kill many many noncombatant civilians, who were not holding a gun before, will pick up a gun NOW because their wife, husband, sons, daughters, and/or babies just became "collateral damage."

That is your and other's narrative. Muslims in the ME don't need a reason. You act like they are just a group of nonviolent people and get turned into people who want to kill by the actions of others. Even in the last 20 years millions of Muslims have died in Muslim Muslims fights. Collateral damage means nothing to them since they maximize it as much as possible on their side.

It's humanity. It's humane. Ceasefire. Stop killing innocent people.

Or are you using a special one-of-a-kind personal definition of Human?

Coming from some of the most ruthless people in history...

Your type of humanity only happens when you live in a safe bubble and you can convince yourself you are better. So yes life is good in that safe bubble, but it's all fake. I have said many times that all those vegetarians in CA would be cannibals within a month if the power grid went out.