Keir Starmer suffers major Labour rebellion over Gaza ceasefire vote

a reply to: Leviathan4

Reminds me of the Corbyn legend with it's allegations of Anti-Semitism. Labour has been in shambles for a while now, something along those lines was about to happen anyway.

a reply to: Insurrectile

Part of the problem is that labour tries always to reinvent itself as the party of the minorities.

They don't have a clue what to do when one of the minority groups wants to kill one of the others.

They are the same when it comes to trans and women's rights. they just sit in the corner looking sad while all the different threats and accusations get tossed around.

Its like they are too scared to try and tackle economic problems and go for the low hanging fruit of social ones.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Except, that it was likely on the influence of capital via controlled opposition. As #ing usual. It's a real shame this is a politics board now, no conspiracy of capital whatsoever.

Oh! That's a deep one.

originally posted by: Insurrectile
a reply to: SprocketUK

Except, that it was likely on the influence of capital via controlled opposition. As #ing usual. It's a real shame this is a politics board now, no conspiracy of capital whatsoever.

Oh! That's a deep one.

Considering that the original aims of the labour party were in opposition to those of capital, you are likely right!

a reply to: SprocketUK

As I said earlier,

'Your' labour party is in a turmoil as it seems with many disagreeing with the leader and the rest who have abstained from the vote. Given that this party will probably form the next Government....

But at least 56 Labour MPs and 125 altogether are on the right side of History calling for an immediate ceasefire and many of them have criticised Israel for the mass killings of innocent civilians.

At least they are still sane people around and sane MPs. And they are a lot.

The allegations of anti-semitism have no grounds in most cases. It's an old debunked argument where any criticism against Israel and its actions is called anti-semitism. The failed tactic has been tried again and again and has been debunked again and again.

originally posted by: Insurrectile
a reply to: Leviathan4

Reminds me of the Corbyn legend with it's allegations of Anti-Semitism. Labour has been in shambles for a while now, something along those lines was about to happen anyway.

At least Labour proved through the 56 MPs who voted for an immediate ceasefire that they are on the right side of history. Together with the rest, i.e the SNP and some other parties, altogether 125 MPs. The rest of the Labour abstained from the vote to follow some ridiculous party line.

a reply to: Leviathan4

1, it is not "my" labour party.
2, Not far off half of the labour MP's then, and the vote was defeated in the house so it is completely irrelevant.

a reply to: Leviathan4

'Your' labour party is in a turmoil.....

The Labour Party has been in almost constant turmoil all my adult life.

I can recall rumours of its relationship with PIE and also the IRA.
Then came The Militant years when they were completely unelectable.
Then of course the Blat and post-Blair years when everyone became disenchanted with the Champagne Socialists and the London/Home Counties elite associated with them.
Then came the worst of all; Corbyn. A traitor, a supporter of terrorism and an enemy of the British people.

Labour long since abandoned its core, tradition support base in favour of every minority cause imaginable.
Never has a party been so alienated from the very people they were supposed to represent.
Momentum usurped The Labour Party and turned into something that was unrecognisable from what it used to be and quite hypocritically still alleged to be.

Starmer has at least made The Labour Party electable again - hardly surprising considering the complete twats in The Conservative Party.
He has started making some progress in re-addressing the influence that some of these minority causes/groups have in the Party and has tried to tackle the anti-semitic problem he inherited from Corbyn et al.
For me he is too smarmy, lacks the vision this country needs at present, is not committed to a return to a mixed-market economy, is not willing to address fundamental problems like the glass ceiling and is far, far too lax on immigration.

Of course, given your considerable understanding and knowledge of UK politics, you would know all this.

The allegations of anti-semitism have no grounds in most cases.

I think you'll find they absolutely, certainly do.

a reply to: Freeborn

All true.

Corbyn has been kicked out of the party for his anti semitism.

To deny this is wilful ignorance and confirms a total lack of understanding of UK politics.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Freeborn

All true.

Corbyn has been kicked out of the party for his anti semitism.

To deny this is wilful ignorance and confirms a total lack of understanding of UK politics.

It's a different topic, but you should look for the al jazeera documentary if you want to have your mind blown.

a reply to: Insurrectile

Which one?

BBC News - Labour MP Jo Stevens' office vandalised after Gaza vote
www.bbc.co.uk...

"The red paint and banners appeared on Ms Stevens' Albany Road office on Thursday night, with some accusing the Cardiff Central MP of supporting the deaths of babies in Gaza."

Hope some might condemn this?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit has obtained documents that look behind the scenes of the “crisis of anti-Semitism” that engulfed the British Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn.

An analysis of internal party documents, social media data and covert recordings reveals how senior Labour officials attempted to undermine support for Corbyn and, on some occasions, to silence debate about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.

The files are part of The Labour Files, an investigation by Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit based on 500 gigabytes of documents, emails, video and audio files from the Labour Party dating from 1998 to 2021.

The data reveals how the party’s bureaucrats, whose nominal function is to serve the interests of the party, attempted to undermine members supportive of Jeremy Corbyn, Labour’s leader from 2015 to 2020.

What really happened during Labour’s ‘anti-Semitism crisis’

a reply to: Insurrectile

www.bbc.co.uk...

The EHRC investigation concluded:

"The watchdog said its analysis "points to a culture within the party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent anti-Semitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it".

Not surprised Corbyn was undermined by the way.

He and his cronies made Labour unelectable.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

And that's from 2020. You know how time works, whatever. Ignore away?

a reply to: Insurrectile

It hasn't gone away, apparently:

www.msn.com...

a reply to: Insurrectile

My mind is not blown.

Bored?

Yes.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

*yawn*

Sure, poor Keir suddenly found himself surrounded by Nazis now. This has nothing to do with his poor ceasefire performance, has it?

a reply to: Insurrectile

"Nazis"?

Where?

a reply to: Insurrectile

Sure, poor Keir suddenly found himself surrounded by Nazis now.

No, something quite different.

This has nothing to do with his poor ceasefire performance, has it?

No it hasn't.

Let's stop beating about the bush and engage in some straight talking - do you know what that is?

The reality is that Labour sought support within minority communities.
They realised that there was a large and growing voting block that they could tap into, particularly in areas with large Muslim populations. Community and especially religious leaders have huge influence in many of these areas where voters quite often vote in line with these leaders 'guidance' and instruction.

In order to maintain support from these 'leaders' Labour had to show sympathy and backing for causes close to them, which includes a pro-Palestinian stance.
This in turn fostered and bred anti-semitic attitudes in many Labour politicians, workers and advocates.

It was one of the major contributors to their abandonment of their core, traditional voters who they took for granted and treat with contempt and disdain - they still do.

Now Starmer is trying to redress some of these issues whilst maintaining support, an incredibly hard balancing act.

Of course some of those who support a ceasefire and are opposed to Israel's reaction to the terrorist attacks carried out against them do so for humanitarian reasons and believe Israel should cease operations immediately.
I get that and can sympathise with that.

But lets not kid ourselves, a lot of this is fed by an inherent burning hatred of Jews and Israel from within the Muslim/Islamic world.

Labour sold its very soul to garner support from them and are now struggling with the so easily foreseen consequences.

Their only consolation is that there is an even bigger bunch of self-serving, nefarious, agenda driven, incompetent twats in The Conservative Party.

I don't expect you to believe a word I've said and I know there will be some who are afraid to agree with me and some who point blank disagree with me.
Such is the world.