California City the first in the US to condemn Israel accusing it of 'ethnic cleansing'

a reply to: Leviathan4

Is a big problem with that way of thinking, when a country is been attacked like hams did to Israel, Israel have all the right in world to fight back.

That is not a war crime, is defense.

a reply to: Threadbarer

There are churches in Gaza? You must mean a Mosque.

Yes.

And I'd also let the tied up child get run over by the train to save to hot girl... hate hypotheticals.

Is that the level of the horrible things they are doing? That's sounds like their current tactic.

Maybe the people in the mosque shouldn't have let the Hamas guy in there to begin with?

"Oh yes, fighter for our freedom, please come in here and we'll be your human shields and propaganda."

If I was Gazan I'd want to be as far away from Hamas as possible. Yet, many listen and stay to get killed.

So yeah. 1 target is worth the 20 people who willingly let themselves be targets too. Only a little rationalization needed.

a reply to: Degradation33

The people killed when the Church of Saint Porphyrios was bombed will be happy to hear they're actually alive because the church doesn't exist will be happy to hear it.

I have to ask, how does it feel to support genocide?

a reply to: Threadbarer

Oh, you're such a fighter of true virtue, aren't you? I think it's just convenient for antisemitism to take natural positions of condemnation right now. Or maybe I'm just touchy when certain comparisons are made and start making bias comparisons too.

Did they get the Hamas guy?

Then, mission accomished.

And that's not genocide. That's 20 civilian cascualties and one hostile combatant. The hit a refugee camp under similar circumstances too.

Come back when they take over completely, put them on trains, and starve them in camps somewhere in the middle of nowhere. Then you can cry genocide. Anti-Israel spin is all it is.

Don't remember other The Khmer Rouge giving a days notice, or the Nazis letting The USSR administer aid to the Polish.

No comparison. Please don't start. I'll stop actually.

Permentantly staying out of these...

a reply to: Leviathan4

Take a look at your country

Only on the first page of this thread but felt obliged to comment.

This is from a very biased and sensitive MSM who feel the need to push the so hard done to Palestinian agenda.

I don't know where you come from but I'm English and British.
I know a lot of ordinary, everyday run-of-the-mill British people.
I don't know anyone who's been polled on this or asked to express their opinion by MSM, they all seem to be the usual middle-class, self-righteous liberal elite who pander to the hard done by, lets not upset Muslim sensibilities agenda.

I honestly don't know anyone who is pro-Palestinian...and I know a lot of people from all over the UK.

No-one wants to see innocent people being killed.
But these people voted Hamas into power, tolerated their terrorist activities and try their best to justify the extremes of the terrorist pieces of # who instigated this.

Shame on all those do-gooders and immigrants demonstrating against Israel....I assure you the general consensus is pro-Israel.

The thing is if such an anti-Palestinian rally was organised it would be banned for fear of provoking confrontation and a backlash but these terrorist supporting scum are not only allowed to do so but actively encouraged by MSM & their associated two faced hypocritical supporters.

We reap what we sow.

Hamas was the one committing the war crimes, when they attacked innocent citizens in Israel, and are continuing their targeting of citizens, it made it so Israel could do what they needed to do to protect their people. Hamas is intigrated into the cities, they fire missiles from everywhere, Israel has the right to try to target their launchers and their headquarters.

War is ugly, people will die on both sides that are not involved directly in the process of the war...that is war. Israel, just like any other country has a right to protect their people. Innocent people die all the time in war, it is only a war crime if Israel directly targets a civilian building that they know is not housing military.

Just because some people at the top of the city condemn Israel, does not mean that the majority of people in that city agree with their actions. I think that those who do not agree with city management should do recalls on all of those who agreed to this condemnation who are in power there. A US city should stay neutral on this subject.

We could also boycot all products produced or shipped from that city to show them they should have kept their mouth shut about this subject. There is no reason the heads of a city should get involved in something like this.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: Degradation33

The people killed when the Church of Saint Porphyrios was bombed will be happy to hear they're actually alive because the church doesn't exist will be happy to hear it.

I have to ask, how does it feel to support genocide?

You’re a Hamas apologist period. Boo frigg’n hoo sweetie. Guess what… war is brutally barbaric and ugly. It has and will always have collateral damage associated with it, unfortunately that includes civilians. This is not a genocide against Palestinian’s, just ask a Jew what a real genocide looks like why don’t you.

How about you go tell the families of Israeli citizens that were murdered, raped, beheaded, tied up and burned alive that they can’t defend themselves against these vile scumbags and that they just need to tolerate it and deal. There were women and children raped so hard that their hips were broken and pouring blood from their crotch. Go about yourself and go tell Israel to chill instead of all your virtue signaling bs you’re spewing here. Let’s see how well that goes for you, pretty sure you’d be enraged if that was your family.

Your arguments are void of any validity in a war scenario. Like always you seem to be on the wrong side of history because you lack any resemblance of critical thinking on the topic, only concern of yours seems to be spreading propaganda and parroting whatever the msm tells you.

FACT: Hamas, PLO and millions of others in the country’s that surround Israel want the Jews exterminated, not the other way around, seriously wake up to the reality of what’s going on. Israel didn’t ask for this #

Palestinian’s wanted Hamas to control their country so if there’s collateral damage of their civilians, well….they signed up for it, stop trying to blame Israel for anything. And yes if there’s a Hamas militant hiding in a mosque, take it out, that’s the reality of war. Palestinian’s wanted Hamas so they can deal with the repercussions of their choice, maybe after the aftermath they’ll make better decisions.

I may sound cold but getting real tired of listening to the rhetorical bs coming from Hamas apologist in the media and people like yourself.

Vladimir Putin was condemned by much larger entities than a town in California.

Had ZERO effect.

But it makes the condemners feel better.

a reply to: Degradation33

War crimes by Israel were made inevitable by how Hamas fights. Let's just always overlook that though

At least you do realise the war crimes by Hamas have been answered by Israel with further war crimes. This is a very important point as there has been plenty of discussion around it and whether Israel has the right to defend itself. There is no question that Israel has the right to defend itself but how do some people define 'defense' is what causes the main controversy. There are millions of people around the world who oppose the war and call for a ceasefire. The killings of thousands of innocent civilians, mostly women and children, cannot be an act of defense. It's mainly an act of revenge.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Leviathan4

Is a big problem with that way of thinking, when a country is been attacked like hams did to Israel, Israel have all the right in world to fight back.

That is not a war crime, is defense.

Yes, it has.
Going after Hamas and after those who supply them with the weapons, training, and military intelligence.

This doesn't imply Israel has the right to kill thousands of innocent civilians, mostly women and children, when at the same time it has very limited effect in the number of Hamas militants killed. The vast majority of people who have died are civilians.

You're not right in your last statement. Israel unfortunately has committed war crimes answering the war crimes committed by Hamas.

reliefweb.int...

Damning evidence of war crimes as Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza

As Israeli forces continue to intensify their cataclysmic assault on the occupied Gaza Strip, Amnesty International has documented unlawful Israeli attacks, including indiscriminate attacks, which caused mass civilian casualties and must be investigated as war crimes

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Leviathan4

Take a look at your country

Only on the first page of this thread but felt obliged to comment.

This is from a very biased and sensitive MSM who feel the need to push the so hard done to Palestinian agenda.

I don't know where you come from but I'm English and British.
I know a lot of ordinary, everyday run-of-the-mill British people.
I don't know anyone who's been polled on this or asked to express their opinion by MSM, they all seem to be the usual middle-class, self-righteous liberal elite who pander to the hard done by, lets not upset Muslim sensibilities agenda.

I honestly don't know anyone who is pro-Palestinian...and I know a lot of people from all over the UK.

No-one wants to see innocent people being killed.
But these people voted Hamas into power, tolerated their terrorist activities and try their best to justify the extremes of the terrorist pieces of # who instigated this.

Shame on all those do-gooders and immigrants demonstrating against Israel....I assure you the general consensus is pro-Israel.

The thing is if such an anti-Palestinian rally was organised it would be banned for fear of provoking confrontation and a backlash but these terrorist supporting scum are not only allowed to do so but actively encouraged by MSM & their associated two faced hypocritical supporters.

We reap what we sow.

I don't think the NewYork Post is pro-Palestinian but rather than the opposite. They have just reported in what they felt it's newsworthy.

Answering your question, from the US.

I am sure in the UK the Muslim population is pro-Palestinian and this is something expectable. But there would be more people just like in many other countries who aren't involved in politics and what they don't want to see is thousands of innocent civilians die because of the bombings, most of them are women and children by the way.

Even though I was a little kid back then I vividly remember that the UK was against the war in Iraq back in 2003 and I am sure most people are against the war now and support a ceasefire. That doesn't make them supporters of Hamas or terrorism as very wrongly (but deliberately) has been argued.

For example

new.thecradle.co...

76 percent of UK citizens want ceasefire in Gaza: Poll

The poll had 2,685 respondents, 58 percent of whom said they are in support of an immediate ceasefire

When UK citizens were asked whether there should be an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, 58 percent of the poll respondents said that they "definitely should," while 18 percent said they "probably should." Eight percent of respondents objected to the notion of a ceasefire, with only 16 percent claiming that they were not sure.

And no I don't know think demonstrations should be banned. If people feel they want to demonstrate in favour of peace and of ceasefire or in favour of either of these two sides they should be able to do so.

originally posted by: WeMustCare
Vladimir Putin was condemned by much larger entities than a town in California.

Had ZERO effect.

But it makes the condemners feel better.

Unfortunately the International Law doesn't have much effect when the very powerful countries are involved. But that doesn't mean they haven't broken the laws or committed crimes and atrocities.

a reply to: Leviathan4

Even though I was a little kid back then I vividly remember that the UK was against the war in Iraq back in 2003.....

Yes.
Apples and oranges.

..... and I am sure most people are against the war now and support a ceasefire.

You're sure are you?
Based on what?

I'd support a ceasefire....after Israel has rooted out and eradicated Hamas.
If they don't then it will only be a matter of time before Hamas carry out yet another terrorist attacks on Israel.
The Palestinian people elected Hamas, they allowed Hamas to carry out their activities without condemning. Hamas operates freely within Gaza and the Palestinian people have done nothing to discourage or dissociate from them.
They have rebuked every single overture from Israel and other concerned parties.

That doesn't make them supporters of Hamas or terrorism as very wrongly (but deliberately) has been argued.

In your opinion, many disagree with you.

I wonder where your faux outrage was when Hamas were slaying Israeli's?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Leviathan4

Even though I was a little kid back then I vividly remember that the UK was against the war in Iraq back in 2003.....

Yes.
Apples and oranges.

..... and I am sure most people are against the war now and support a ceasefire.

You're sure are you?
Based on what?

I'd support a ceasefire....after Israel has rooted out and eradicated Hamas.
If they don't then it will only be a matter of time before Hamas carry out yet another terrorist attacks on Israel.
The Palestinian people elected Hamas, they allowed Hamas to carry out their activities without condemning. Hamas operates freely within Gaza and the Palestinian people have done nothing to discourage or dissociate from them.
They have rebuked every single overture from Israel and other concerned parties.

That doesn't make them supporters of Hamas or terrorism as very wrongly (but deliberately) has been argued.

In your opinion, many disagree with you.

I wonder where your faux outrage was when Hamas were slaying Israeli's?

I gave you a poll conducted a few days ago. Although the sample is smallish it shows that most of the people asked (in the UK) want an immediate ceasefire.

You're wrong about elections. There hasn't been an election in Gaza since 2007, that's 16 years ago. There has been a coup d'etat situation since then and most people who pay the price of what Hamas did on the 7th of October have nothing to do with them, as they are either kids or teenagers, or young adults who have never voted for them.

I see you are going about the false equivalency argument, are you trying to say that whoever wants ceasefire and peace is a supporter of Hamas and terrorism. Just because some claim this is true it's still a flawed argument.

76 percent of UK citizens want ceasefire in Gaza: Poll

The poll had 2,685 respondents, 58 percent of whom said they are in support of an immediate ceasefire

When UK citizens were asked whether there should be an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, 58 percent of the poll respondents said that they "definitely should," while 18 percent said they "probably should." Eight percent of respondents objected to the notion of a ceasefire, with only 16 percent claiming that they were not sure.

Look what I posted in my last reply.
Does this make thousands of your compatriots Hamas or terrorism supporters? Because they have answered there definitely should be or there probably should be an immediate ceasefire.

If we take this false equivalency because for some people it suites their argument you will find millions of people in your country and in the world to have magically become supporters of Hamas and terrorism.

My stance on this matter is clear.
War crimes committed by Hamas cannot be answered with war crimes committed by Israel. To your question whether I condemn the Israelis who were killed on the 7th of October.

Also it seems there are tens of thousands of people in your country who protest against the war.

www.timesofisrael.com...

Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters in London urge ceasefire, slam Israel.

Britain's foreign secretary says no indication Hamas wants truce; similar Gaza-support rallies held in Germany, Indonesia, Pakistan, France, Italy, Norway and Switzerland

And I am sure there have been many protests everywhere in Britain and around the world.

a reply to: NeonKnights

Saying that both sides should stop committing war crimes is the wrong side of history?

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

How many were polled and how many could be bothered to respond?

You probably forgot that your country, the UK, and I remember despite the fact I was a little kid at that time, was against the war in Iraq. It's very unlikely that it will be in favour of the war now. And the poll clearly shows it even if it's a small sample.

No, didn't forget.

I was very much against Iraq.

Apples and oranges.

Very, very tiny sample.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

How many were polled and how many could be bothered to respond?

You probably forgot that your country, the UK, and I remember despite the fact I was a little kid at that time, was against the war in Iraq. It's very unlikely that it will be in favour of the war now. And the poll clearly shows it even if it's a small sample.

No, didn't forget.

I was very much against Iraq.

Apples and oranges.

Very, very tiny sample.

Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters in London urge ceasefire, slam Israel.

Britain's foreign secretary says no indication Hamas wants truce; similar Gaza-support rallies held in Germany, Indonesia, Pakistan, France, Italy, Norway and Switzerland

From the above post.

It's not apples and oranges as this is a war where civilians are slaughtered in their thousands.


Same story about the protest in London on the 28th of October

Half a million pro-Palestine supporters poured through the streets of London on Saturday. It was a sea of people, streaming out of the Tube exits, chanting for Palestine as they moved through the stations, determined to show their solidarity.

It seems to me that a large number of people want this war to stop not only in the UK or US but everywhere.

Just an open question for those condemning Israel, but what should they have done in response?

a reply to: Leviathan4

Iraq was quite different. I opposed it.

Large numbers protesting, led by Israel hating lefties like Jeremy Corbyn and Dianne Abbott.

Folk didn't vote Corbyn in when he ran in our GE.

His rabid anti semitism got him kicked out of the Labour party


You know nothing about the UK, just showing your cognitive bias, again.