Rockets fired at Israel from Gaza rocket attack terrorists have infiltrated from Gaza

originally posted by: quintessentone
Not really that's why others are looking for and posting other videos for comparison and discussion.

Um ... no. It's clear and it shows one of the terrorist rockets falling and hitting the hospital. The reason people are looking at other videos is just to look at them. It in no way says that the channel 12 video is somehow 'lacking'.

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Muldar

My point is that it's best not to start a regional conflict

Then why aren't you screaming this at Hamas from the rooftops instead of infesting thread after thread with nonsense?

Hamas cannot start a regional war. They are surrounded and have nowhere to go. Whether a regional war starts depends on Israel and the other Muslim countries.

The nonsense is all yours my friend that you have called war crimes as nonsense.

Who else is that is surrounded on all sides.

Oh yeah Israel.

True. But Hamas cannot start a regional war.

Hamas Can't .

But Iran certainly can.

I was hoping you would arrive at that reality on your own.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Not really that's why others are looking for and posting other videos for comparison and discussion.

Um ... no. It's clear and it shows one of the terrorist rockets falling and hitting the hospital. The reason people are looking at other videos is just to look at them. It in no way says that the channel 12 video is somehow 'lacking'.

I'll wait for independent verification.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

And Hezbollah and associated Iranian armed and funded militias.

on why most of the arab states do not want to take the Palestinian refugees from gaza

they started the the Lebanese civil war, killed the king of jordan then went after his heir repeatedly before being deported to i think lebbenon and egypt where they then set up "mini nations with armed check points" and suicide bombings respectively .

they sided with sadam during the kuwait invasion and went on a looting spree after being told they would get a part of kuwait for them selves

lebbenon and jordan well see above for jordan and lebbenon , and then they sided with anti assad rebels in syria so asad does not want them(plus its an active war zone) but Lebbenon and jordan allready have massive syrian refugee problems to deal with

yemen is in the middle of a pretty goodsized civil war ,egypt is a hard no because 1 they do suicide bombings on the regular and the Palenstinans are allied with the muslim brotherhood which is banned in egypt

i think libya is in middle of civil war or some kind of chaos ,turkey is too busy trying to wack the kurds.

the rich arab states (saudi uae and qatar) hate the poors so thats a hard no from them

iraq is still chaos and fighting so not the best place

oman? thats the tiny one that hates all refugees right?

now take modern context out (so 1967 ish) allllllllllll of the arab nations refused to take in the palestinans/west bank refugees from jordan at the time ,so even then too when it was not as bad as it is now none of them wanted anything to do with any one displaced

en.m.wikipedia.org...

On 17 September 1970, the Jordanian Army surrounded all cities with a significant PLO presence, including Amman and Irbid, and began shelling Palestinian refugee camps, where the fedayeen were operating out. The next day, 10,000 Syrian troops bearing PLA markings began an invasion by advancing towards Irbid, which the fedayeen had occupied and declared to be a "liberated" city. On 22 September, the Syrians withdrew from Irbid after suffering heavy losses to a coordinated aerial–ground offensive by the Jordanians. Mounting pressure from other Arab countries, such as Iraq, led Hussein to halt his offensive. On 13 October, he signed an agreement with Arafat to regulate the fedayeen's presence in Jordan. However, the Jordanian military attacked again in January 1971, and the Palestinians were driven out of the cities, one by one, until 2,000 fedayeen surrendered after they were encircled during the Ajlun offensive on 17 July, formally marking the end of the conflict.[11] Jordan allowed the fedayeen to relocate to Lebanon via Syria. Four years later, the fedayeen became involved in the Lebanese Civil War, which would continue until 1990. The Palestinian Black September Organization was founded after the conflict to carry out attacks against Jordanian authorities in response to the fedayeen's expulsion; their first notable attack was the assassination of Jordanian prime minister Wasfi Tal in 1971, as he had commanded parts of the military operations against the fedayeen. The organization then shifted its focus to attacking Israeli targets and later carried out the Munich massacre, in which they murdered 11 Israeli athletes in a high-profile attack at the 1972 Summer Olympics. Though the events of Black September did not immediately reflect a Jordanian–Palestinian divide, as there were Jordanians and Palestinians on both sides of the conflict, it did pave the way for such a divide to emerge subsequently.[12]

just a small example of how there arab brothers delt with them ,but pretty much every nation that has taken them in has been thrown into chaos and either tried to exterminate them ,deport them some where else or make them some one elses problem who then deports them somewhere else in Lebbenons case to Tunisia

In the September fighting, the PLO lost its main base of operations.[82] Fighters were driven to Southern Lebanon where they regrouped.[82] The enlarged PLO presence in Lebanon and the intensification of fighting on the Israeli–Lebanese border stirred up internal unrest in Lebanon, where the PLO fighters added dramatically to the weight of the Lebanese National Movement, a coalition of Muslims, Arab nationalists and leftists who opposed the rightist, Maronite-dominated government.[82] These developments helped precipitate the Lebanese Civil War, in which the PLO would ultimately be expelled to Tunisia

so basically if they go some where they tend to cause a good deal of chaos for the local governments or had really bad luck and got chased out of other war zones


en.wikipedia.org... wont quote this one but its a general history of them and when they left where they went and how it all ended up .and oddly per us records there are only 30,000 actual refugees as we officially only count the ones from june 1946 to may 1948

I have looked at many of the videos if not all linked in this thread. It looks like an engine nozzle failure. That means the engine was still burning and the opening in the nozzle just got too big for some reason. Might have blown out with pressure, might have melted, might have fell off by a bad weld.

When this happens it is like throttling down the power while the fuel continues to burn. It was going quite a bit of speed but was unable to travel the planned flight path because the engine was not putting out the power needed. It would not slow down but just stop climbing and drop.

Most of the comments seem to be based on thinking of an airplane stalling where it just slows down and falls out of the sky. This does not happen with ballistic flights.

Now, this was in no way missle, please stop calling it that. It is a rocket. There is no guidance system, no electronics, no controls. Just an engine with something that goes boom at the front. Think of a super size modle rocket or bottle rocket made from a metal pipe with some fins stuck on one end and a large grenade on the other end. That is all it is.

And yes, it sounded much like a huge bottle rocket.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
What do you mean wrong direction?

Did you see it? Sideways and down. Not up and out like the rest were.
Looked like it was going fast. maybe still propelled.
Like I said, I'm not an expert and no one here knows what they are looking at.

For crying out loud, just look at it yourself. Its' very clear.

I haven't seen this video everyone seems to arguing over. Quite frankly, I have been avoiding videos about this war as much as I can. Better for my soul, I think.


But, as someone who has launched (and built) more than a few "Rockets, your description of this one's flight as "...sideways and down..." caught my attention.


Rockets, are rather simple things. Like popped Champaign corks, they tend to follow Newton's laws regarding their flight paths; they fly in the direction they are fired until they run out of propulsion, and gravity overtakes them.

Unless something, changes their course (Newton, again!).

That "something" could be an external force, like being hit by an object that pushes the Rocket of course. Or it could be something internal, like a faulty exhaust nozzle, or if the burning propellant "breaks through" the body of the rocket and the resulting sideways thrust pushes the rocket off course (something similar occurred on the last Shuttle Challenger flight, but resulted in Challenger being destroyed, not just pushed off course)


My point being "sideways and down", (without having seen the actual video) when talking about a rocket sounds like it was either knocked off course by something else. Or it was launched at a very low angle; essentially "sideways".


Which would be very odd.


It also possible, though less likely, that the rocket exhaust nozzle (which in these rockets is often nothing more than a pattern of holes drilled in a metal plate) may have failed, or been faulty (too many/too large holes on one side of the plate?).


"Missiles", on the other hand, often fly "sideways" (more or less parallel to the ground), and "down", to their targets.


But the Fog of War is Gray, and Gray is a color folks who can only see in Black and White will not accept.

a reply to: quintessentone

What do you mean wrong direction?

Not going where it was intended to go.

Can't believe some of the things I've read on this thread.

a reply to: beyondknowledge2

Sounds like a fellow "rocketeer"?

Your explanation is much better than mine!

originally posted by: nolabel
a reply to: quintessentone

What do you mean wrong direction?

Not going where it was intended to go.

Can't believe some of the things I've read on this thread.

Well I was only asking because both sides are still blaming each other for the rocket or missile attack on the hospital

This is ATS, believe it.

a reply to: quintessentone

Did you expect a terrorist to admit that they messed up and killed their own?

Really?

Really?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Drone strikes hitting US troops in Iraq now.

Must be Israeli drones!

Using your "logic", we should murder every last person in Iraq then, no?

You know, just to be sure...

originally posted by: HologramSimpleton432Hz

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Drone strikes hitting US troops in Iraq now.

Must be Israeli drones!

Using your "logic", we should murder every last person in Iraq then, no?

You know, just to be sure...

We should have demanded unilateral surrender.

We did it in Japan and Germany and those were the last wars we won.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Muldar

My point is that it's best not to start a regional conflict

Then why aren't you screaming this at Hamas from the rooftops instead of infesting thread after thread with nonsense?

Hamas cannot start a regional war. They are surrounded and have nowhere to go. Whether a regional war starts depends on Israel and the other Muslim countries.

The nonsense is all yours my friend that you have called war crimes as nonsense.

Who else is that is surrounded on all sides.

Oh yeah Israel.

True. But Hamas cannot start a regional war.

Hamas Can't .

But Iran certainly can.

I was hoping you would arrive at that reality on your own.

Agree.

Has anyone seen Steve!?!?!??!?!?


2 days, no word.

Thoughts and prayers.

originally posted by: JinMI
Has anyone seen Steve!?!?!??!?!?


2 days, no word.

Thoughts and prayers.

Sure is weird there are no Gaza skyline livestreams tonight.

a reply to: TheGoondockSaint

The only one I found so far:

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: TheGoondockSaint

The only one I found so far:

Do you think Hamas has figured out that the live streams are being used to help with the drones and as intelligence themselves? I am certain the Isrealie intelligence organizations are watching all of them they can find. I am also reasonably certain Hamas is watching all the cameras in Israel. They might get an early warning of the Isrealie troop movements form them.

It would be funny watching a colum of tanks and apcs driving around a block to pass in front of a camera with the numbers and markings changed with chalk each pass. 'What do you mean there are ten thousand tanks on the border?'

Like a spotter in the enemies territory that has none of the disadvantages of being shot.

a reply to: beyondknowledge2

I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet ours and their satellites are much higher quality and articulate.

a reply to: JinMI

Satalites take time to update with each pass. If you know when they are passing over, it can be avoided by camouflage. A live stream has the advantage of being there and seeing it all with no gaps in the coverage time.