EU Labels Anyone Calling For Peace A "Kremlin Propagandist"

a reply to: VulcanWerks

In fact, if we cut to the chase and hand over some of that land I can see multiple ways that play will benefit the alliance more than continuing the conflict.

It's not our land to give away.

Any more than its Russian land to occupy.

Simple as that really.

a reply to: alldaylong

It's true that Clinton was involved initially but the bulk of the strategy was implemented through the Bush years.

You know what I meant by my question. You call Putin rabid and mad yet you have people guilty of worse behaviour happily playing golf in Martha's Vineyard. People that are ultimately responsible for this conflict but nothing is said.

I'm all for peace and diplomacy but I can't see that happening. The Minsk accord was an attempt but Merkel herself said it was never intended to be honoured so I can't see the Russians believing anything from the West. I wouldn't either. If you were honest neither would you.

a reply to: MykeNukem

You'll notice that a large majority from the UK are absolutely irrational and petty when it comes to anything to do with Russia.

Ha ha ha....good to see you posting again.

Not irrational and petty, just consistent and resolute in our opposition to Putin's continuing invasion of Ukraine and support for Ukraine's fight again a foreign invader.

Just the mention of peace sends them into a tizzy.

Not at all, I think most of us would welcome peace - I know I would.
But I don't think its going to happen as long as Putin demands Ukraine recognise the lands he he overran and now controls are being part of Russia as a pre-condition for any peace talks.
Can you honestly see that happening?
Do you think it should?

Usually they start off saying that Ukraine can decide for themselves, then, in the next statement they'll tell you what Ukraine should do.

Not at all.
At the end of the day it should be Ukraine's choice, no if's, but's or maybe's.
But that shouldn't stop us from being able to express an opinion.
Or would you deny us that?

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

Would it be an indefinite amount of support over a long period of time? How much and how long?

I'm not sure about 'indefinite amount of support' but certainly substantial and for as long as California sought to resist.

That's my personal opinion on a massively hypothetical situation.
The specific circumstances surrounding such an event may influence my thoughts should such an unlikely event ever occur.

And I certainly can't speak for other individuals or whichever rotten and amoral political party would be dictating UK policy at the time.

a reply to: nickyw

...in terms of the Budapest memorandum the key signatories of us, britain and france should have intervened militarily in 2014 even if it risked war with russia,...

With hindsight I'd say you're right.
The fact we didn't just emboldened Putin and led him to believe there would be no push-back from his invasion of Ukraine other than the customary and irrelevant diplomatic statements of disapproval.

Further evidence if ever anyone needed it that Appeasement doesn't work.

a reply to: Freeborn

That's what indefinate means. For as long as they sought to resist.

Like I continue to point out: US is paying the lions share of Ukraines defense, and they are corrupt as well.

I'm sick of American resources being spent on non-Americans. Anyone out there mind if we take care of OURSELVES now for awhile????

No! We cant have that! Americans need to PONY UP and PAY

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

I could make the same or similar comments about the UK.
The UK pays its way and is usually one of the first, if not the first, to step up to the plate.

There are many, many things wrong here in the UK and obviously the money could be well spent on many other things - that's if we had a competent and caring government - but Right is Right.

I've never been one to back down from anything or anyone....and I really don't see why anyone should back down to Putin's bullying, intimidation and blatant war-mongering.

As I have said on countless occasions Appeasement simply doesn't work.
If we were to sell Ukraine down the river now it will only lead to an inevitable bigger confrontation further down the line.

a reply to: Freeborn

UK is closer to the issue than US. Russia isn't coming for either country. Relax.

Ukraine isn't a part of NATO. We helped. It cost Russia dearly. Now its time to wind down and not pour our resources into another protracted war.

Our domestic problems are quickly becoming crisis. Mind if we pay attention to our own business instead?

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

It won't wind down until the next war is prepared. I fancy it will be Iran next. All the posturing regarding China will be kept up of course, need to have those enemies.
Your whole economy is wrapped around the war machine. How could it be any other way?

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

UK is closer to the issue than US. Russia isn't coming for either country. Relax.

Relaxed is my default setting.
Rarely am I anything other than relaxed.

Russia may not be 'coming' for us despite threatening to nuke the UK on several occasions but both the threat and precedents are clear.
If we bow down to Putin now he will simply believe our resolve is weak and we will always cave in whenever the going gets tough.
It will give him greater credibility etc within The Kremlin and as sure as night follows day it will only be a matter of time before he goes after Moldova and/or The Baltic States.

My nature dictates that if someone pushes me I push back twice as hard and I will never, ever back down or give in. I couldn't change that even if I wanted to.
I don't see why Ukraine can't and won't react in exactly the same way, and they need our support to do so.

And I don't support turning your back on someone mid-fight.

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

Like others suggest CoyoteAngels Russia may not be threatening UK shores with invasion.

But they have come away with statements that amount to threatening the use of nuclear weapons on our major towns and cities.

And then there was all that nuclear torpedo tsunami nonsense.

Ukraine may not be a part of NATO, but down to Russia's antics they will be soon, and they have the support of the NATO nations for very good reasons.

As to domestic problems, well most civilised nations have those, its not beyond our abilities the attempt to deal with both.

a reply to: midicon

We are the arms dealer to the world. And it's good to be our friend.

I'd like that to be different. The democrat party as I knew it was anti-war. Yet democrats have started the ones in my lifetime except for the war on terror, that involved 2 countries, 1 nobody argued about, and 1 everyone argued about, except that was the one war I remember being debated on an international stage in my lifetime. But then, 'Bush lied, people died', but it was a war of consensus, except for use as a democrat hate talking point once it was over.

a reply to: Freeborn

We have an invasion happening on our southern border. We are having infrastructure problems, supply problems, a growing homeless problem that is akin to the Great Depression. A failing education system. Corrupt, insecure election infrastructure.... a military that cannot fill its personnel needs due to falling enlistment and inability to pass the tests. The US cannot afford to pay indirect costs for our own security. Tough titties, but the milk is quickly drying up, and it's almost offensive for an outsider to continue to advise how we best handle our budget and priorities.

a reply to: andy06shake

I remember 'duck and cover' drills when Russia threatened the US with nukes in Cuba.

Ive prayed my whole entire life for Yahweh/Jesus/Allah/Buddha/Source to keep a crazy Uncle from pushing the button.

So far my prayers have been answered.

I will keep praying.

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

There's enough money in both of our countries to address our respective issues and to continue supporting Ukraine.

The problem is that the vast majority of that wealth and the resources that go along with it lie in the hands of an incredibly small number of people who wish to retain their wealth, privilege and power and care little, if at all, for the ordinary, everyday people.

.... and it's almost offensive for an outsider to continue to advise how we best handle our budget and priorities.

Sorry, I'll comment and express my opinions on anything I chose to.
Disagree with them as much as you wish, that is entirely your right, but please don't expect me to shut up and stop commenting just because it may be starting to offend you....it simply isn't going to happen.

a reply to: Freeborn

Would you knock on your neighbors door, who is ponying up more than you are because they have a bigger house, to just keep paying for a cause YOU believe is a higher priority than their plumbing problems while they are already so far in debt their great grandkids will owe? Would you get in their business and tell them how to spend, and then further tell them they have no right to take offense because you have a right to the opinion?

Ok. You do you.

a reply to: Freeborn

except we did in 2014.. we ignored it like sudetenland, as signatories of the budapest memorandum we should have moved post annexation of crimea, nor did we do anything when putin amassed his troops on the border, we should have been there to ensure an invasion was picking a fight with the rest for real not by proxy.

putin should not have been allowed to enter the country and in letting him we let the next war happen and it will as we're all now trapped in the American drive for old testament style revenge on russia and russia for survival..

if you want to real reason it goes back to keeping russia as an easy go to enemy for the USA rather than bring it into the fold and making a Putin like leader impossible..

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

I remember 'duck and cover' drills when Russia threatened the US with nukes in Cuba.

They done something similar back in the 80s when we were in school where we had to get under the desks.

Ive prayed my whole entire life for Yahweh/Jesus/Allah/Buddha/Source to keep a crazy Uncle from pushing the button.

And yet its the likes of NATO as a deterrent and the nations that comprise such that have endeavored to prevent nuclear annihilation by way of M.A.D.

Its nuts, granted, but i don't think it has much to do with religious sensibilities, which is something we should thank our lucky stars for by my guess.

So far my prayers have been answered.

I will keep praying.

Well, i envy your peace of mind.

Prayers aside, you don't back down nor capitulate to people like Putin or his regime, as it seldom bodes well, and would simply be perceived as weakness.

Freedom to Ukraine and down with the Russian invasion.

On that note, I'm away out for some Sun, and to cut the grass, cracking day so it is here.

a reply to: andy06shake

Agree that many countries come under that MAD umbrella that is pretty much provided for by the US.

We are the deterrent. NATO knows which side of the bread their butter is on.

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

Considering just like the UK, and that your nation is a founding member of the North Atlantic Treaty.

With the obligations and commitments that go hand in hand with such a position.

I should darn well hope so.

If you actually understood what you were talking about CoyoteAngels you would realise that it's a team effort, NATO that is.

And the reason for their support where Ukraine is concerned is all about knowing which side one's bread is buttered.

Which sure as sh@t is not Russian side up by my guess or anything reminiscent of the sort.

You don't bail out halfway through a fight CoyoteAngels, you see it through to the end.

We all know it's NATO support that's keeping Ukraine in the ring, or at least allowing them to mount a reasonable defense of their nation.

Withdrawing our support now would equate to flinging in the towel which would would only set up the next round of conflict to come.