My Freedom, Your Freedom

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: quintessentone

If I had the guts to say

So it's just lack of curage, and repressed deceptions, due to an empty life.

This creates pressure that can be dangerous but if channeled exactly where it's needed it's very powerful propaganda tool.

Maybe freedom is in the heart and mind only (?)

Or, from another song: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

a reply to: Terpene

I couldn't figure out what the freedom train was so I looked it up.
Wikipedia:

The 1940s Freedom Train exhibit was integrated—black and white viewers were allowed to mingle freely. When town officials in Birmingham, Alabama, and Memphis, Tennessee, refused to allow blacks and whites to see the exhibits at the same time, the Freedom Train skipped the planned visits, amid significant controversy.

So maybe the people of those two cities didn't get to see it.

I don't know what the audience is that the song is directed to.

In general U.S. American terms Liberty and Freedom meant the right of self determination, not dictated by British Crown.
So to quote Mather Byles, the British Loyalist:

He is perhaps most famously remembered for his retort when questioned why he didn’t support the uprising of the Sons of Liberty. The quote attributed to him:

“Which is better — to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?”
newenglandhistoricalsociety.com...

Because self determination meant a new body formed to make the rules, codify the social contract. It wasn't that each was his own King.

So yeah, that's about it.

a reply to: quintessentone

Is there really a "maybe" there?

We can free ourself from all limitation but the basic needs, food, water, shelter, reproduction. If they are covered and you still feel unfree the shackles are in your mind.

So long any of those needs aren't free, freedom of the mind, is just a fleeting distraction.
Those necesites will always give someone the power, to force your mind and by extend your body somewhere.

Nature is a bitch, but humans are worse...

a reply to: pthena

So maybe the people of those two cities didn't get to see it.

I bet there is plenty they haven't seen because they thought they've seen it all...

I don't know what the audience is that the song is directed to.

Does that change the content of the song?

Why not adress that, instead of making it about more of your favorite boogie mens?

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: quintessentone

Is there really a "maybe" there?

We can free ourself from all limitation but the basic needs, food, water, shelter, reproduction. If they are covered and you still feel unfree the shackles are in your mind.

So long any of those needs aren't free, freedom of the mind, is just a fleeting distraction.
Those necesites will always give someone the power, to force your mind and by extend your body somewhere.

Nature is a bitch, but humans are worse...

I added the 'maybe' because we are a product of nature and humanity's influences, we are not of our own natural creation and we exist within many different types of limitations.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Nah it's always the others fault with some, we know that by now.

Who exactly forced you to take a knee or compromise on your principles and how exactly did they force you?

Maybe you can show us on the doll, where your liberty has been taken away...

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: DBCowboy

Nah it's always the others fault with some, we know that by now.

Who exactly forced you to take a knee or compromise on your principles and how exactly did they force you?

Maybe you can show us on the doll, where your liberty has been taken away...

Wouldn't it be on the doll's butt because butt hurt?

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: DBCowboy

Nah it's always the others fault with some, we know that by now.

Who exactly forced you to take a knee or compromise on your principles and how exactly did they force you?

Maybe you can show us on the doll, where your liberty has been taken away...

You don't get it, I refused to take a knee.

Then the leftists say I'm divisive because I wouldn't obey them or their ideology.

Terp, can I call you Terp? Terp, we've been on this site for a while.

I have always sided on the side of more freedom, on any issue. Even if it was in support of someone I don't usually agree with. I've pushed back against republicans and conservatives on this site because I've always been consistent in defending and promoting freedoms.

And we have never agreed on any topic.

Heh.

And here you sit, daring to lecture me on freedoms.

lol

You've lost this one, sport.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: DBCowboy

Nah it's always the others fault with some, we know that by now.

Who exactly forced you to take a knee or compromise on your principles and how exactly did they force you?

Maybe you can show us on the doll, where your liberty has been taken away...

Wouldn't it be on the doll's butt because butt hurt?

And here's another one chiming in on freedoms, yet we've never agreed on anything either.

It's always "pro-government" this, or "pro-government" that.

You can laugh and scoff, only because the authoritarians are in control, but it's odd to get lectured by leftists, Marxists on freedoms.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: greendust

And initially here people did not pay property or income tax - that is why so many people immigrated here.

....that is pretty much what is in our blood and what was taken from us and alot of us want that back...

And with his last breath, the mouse asks for the chees.
Maybe if he looks very cute, and says nicely pitty please.

Ah, so you are worse than a socialist, you are a communist. So basically you just told me that once your hero's take over you will starve people like me to death once you conviscate my property?

a reply to: DBCowboy

that's just your opinion...

I'm not here for winning anything, not even sure what the argument is you claim there is a looser?
Maybe you can lay it out with a couple of sentences on the topic of the OP?

Not some random political divisiveness that doesn't adress any of the OP except the dichotomous political talking points that are triggered by the word freedom...

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: DBCowboy

Nah it's always the others fault with some, we know that by now.

Who exactly forced you to take a knee or compromise on your principles and how exactly did they force you?

Maybe you can show us on the doll, where your liberty has been taken away...

Wouldn't it be on the doll's butt because butt hurt?

And here's another one chiming in on freedoms, yet we've never agreed on anything either.

It's always "pro-government" this, or "pro-government" that.

You can laugh and scoff, only because the authoritarians are in control, but it's odd to get lectured by leftists, Marxists on freedoms.

Just give it time your government will come into power again, it's a revolving door between the two.

a reply to: greendust

Nope that's just your fear driven fantasies...

Maybe if we all focuse really hard to imagine each other as the worst threat, we'll eventually get there...

a reply to: Terpene

Does that change the content of the song?

Content without context is just words.
Was the "train to freedom" an actual thing or metaphor? It may just make a difference.
U.S. Citizen 1943. Back to Europe 1955. No idea when the song was written.

your favorite boogie mens?

My favorite boogie mens?

Metaphorically, the job boss(speaker) can stand for "the haves"
The person addressed (audience) stands for "the have nots"

The haves have more freedom than the have nots.

I'll tell you what I think freedom is these days:
To leave things as they are.

That quote may be the author's actual sentiments.

Yeah. I'm not going to change the balance. Not with guns. Not with words. Even my vote gets drowned out, watered down.

a reply to: Terpene

Just don't say anything about the bourgeoisie and I think we are good.

That sounds like a love song to Capitalism.

And it's the truth. Legacy matters. Wealth matters. Affluence matters. All matter if you want to have ruling class freedom come easier. But you can work to greater freedom. With luck or loans.

It's not egalitarianism and I hope it never is, because the counter provides no incentive to dream.

Yeah the dream's mostly a lie, and 99% fail, but almost everyone has an opportunity to try. I'm surrounded by cashed out crypto-millionaire millenials. Wish I thought of that. But I didn't and live a much less charmed life. More by paycheck considerations.

They have way more freedom.

Their privilege. They could have been gifted that life, but it's still theres. Sad as it is, if society/economy is an ecosystem, they are Alpha cast and matter more to its survival than me.

The oligarchy is just a manifestation of social natural selection at its most allegedly unfair.

a reply to: pthena

I'm sorry I didn't get your line of reasoning...and actually still don't.

My post was out of line and from a place of irritated confusion. I read, race and some form of trying to evade the OPs content. Sorry...

Can you just spill it out for me?

Please

The greatest threat to freedom is wrapped in the term security.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
The greatest threat to freedom is wrapped in the term security.

Brilliant.

a reply to: Terpene

Can you just spill it out for me?

Please

The privileged class (song speaker) is speaking the song to the non-privileged class (audience).

Whether the line I quoted is in the voice of (song speaker) or the author's own sentiment, doesn't really matter, except what an individual decides to do about it.

As for me. I will not pick up a gun "to right the wrong" and neither do I believe that my words typed on ATS will either. I vote, but I'm not any more effective than the party politics allow.

In the end, my voice is a fart in the wind. That's freedom.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I totally agree, and please consider this.
The war for the mind is not an empty phrase, and there is no basic education whatsoever on the topic. Humans are sent into this world completely defenseless. If they're lucky they see trough it before they fall for one side.
Then they'll only ever see the other side.

When fear is big enough one cries for security.

It's natural, it's a primal instinct and the response is processed unconscious.
We know that for quite a while and every intelligence agency around the world has extensively experimented with fear.

Never let youtube videos, political talking heads, and media Instill fear.
Fear is best reserved for real live situations, as it's the only place it really serves a purpose.

Bluntly said, every time one sees his freedom threatened, and there is no actual threat on his basic needs, he's engaging in freedom erosion...