"Grading for Equity" - Portland Schools Mull Banning Zeroes for Cheating and Not Doing Work

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

When I was a senior is HS, we had a paper assigned to us at the beginning of the year that was due a week before graduation. You can bet that there were those that waited until the last minute to do it or didn't do it at all and missed the deadline.


so tell me again how longer timeframes to complete work help?

That wouldn't be the case with the new plan. Sounds like kids being set up for failure type of scenario.

a reply to: quintessentone

You didn't even bother to read this did you?

Nowhere does it mention the workplaces that were studied, which if you can't read, was my question.

originally posted by: quintessentone
There is no way knowing that until this new plan is implemented.

I already said what this plan will do. It'll teach no accountability and it'll teach that no effort gets rewarded. This really is basic psychology. It's not hard to see.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

You didn't even bother to read this did you?

Nowhere does it mention the workplaces that were studied, which if you can't read, was my question.

I think they said it was an anonymous question submission type of blind study.

a reply to: quintessentone

That scenario is exactly what you propose.....

An extended timeframe for work to be done to "meet a deadline"

how exactly is this setting someone up for failure?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
There is no way knowing that until this new plan is implemented.

I already said what this plan will do. It'll teach no accountability and it'll teach that no effort gets rewarded. This really is basic psychology. It's not hard to see.

You are guessing what this plan will do because it is not yet implemented for anyone to make any assessment.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Try child developmental psychology not basic psychology.

I had child developmental psychology in with my psychology degree. It doesn't take a degree to understand that if you reward bad behavior then you will get more bad behavior. That's basic psychology anywhere. Rewarding cheating by passing the student along is rewarding bad behavior.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

That scenario is exactly what you propose.....

An extended timeframe for work to be done to "meet a deadline"

how exactly is this setting someone up for failure?

I don't propose any plan, I propose trying different plans and strategies to help 'all' children instead of doing nothing.

originally posted by: quintessentone
You are guessing what this plan will do because it is not yet implemented for anyone to make any assessment.

That's not guesswork. That's a fact. That's exactly what it does ... rewarding bad behavior means more bad behavior. This doesn't do the child any favors.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Try child developmental psychology not basic psychology.

I had child developmental psychology in with my psychology degree. It doesn't take a degree to understand that if you reward bad behavior then you will get more bad behavior. That's basic psychology anywhere. Rewarding cheating by passing the student along is rewarding bad behavior.

This is not rewarding bad behaviour this is replacing punishment with guidance and exploring different strategies where 'all' children have a better chance at success. That's basic common sense.

originally posted by: quintessentone

The claim about real-life norms is also dubious. There are times when deadlines must be strictly enforced, but for the most part, employers are typically forgiving of extensions and late work, recognizing that “assigned deadlines can be stressfully tight, compromising output quality,” according to a 2022 study, which also found that 53 percent of workplace deadlines were flexible. In fact, “deadline estimates are often overly optimistic,” and adhering to them too stringently can dramatically increase burnout.

In the end, they can use whatever grading scale they want. If they want to start at 50 which is still an F who cares. Schools already do not have deadlines other than the end of the term, so there are basically two hard deadlines as they need to provide grades. There are two totally different points in this article being mixed together. Scoring and deadlines and one is not the other...

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
You are guessing what this plan will do because it is not yet implemented for anyone to make any assessment.

That's not guesswork. That's a fact. That's exactly what it does ... rewarding bad behavior means more bad behavior. This doesn't do the child any favors.

It is not rewarding bad behaviour, it is identifying and strategizing how to help 'all' children succeed.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

The claim about real-life norms is also dubious. There are times when deadlines must be strictly enforced, but for the most part, employers are typically forgiving of extensions and late work, recognizing that “assigned deadlines can be stressfully tight, compromising output quality,” according to a 2022 study, which also found that 53 percent of workplace deadlines were flexible. In fact, “deadline estimates are often overly optimistic,” and adhering to them too stringently can dramatically increase burnout.

In the end, they can use whatever grading scale they want. If they want to start at 50 which is still an F who cares. Schools already do not have deadlines other than the end of the term, so there are basically two hard deadlines as they need to provide grades. There are two totally different points in this article being mixed together. Scoring and deadlines and one is not the other...

Strange that they would mix the grading and deadlines together as another member is doing here. Obviously the deadline or timeframe within schools needs to be looked at more closely, perhaps we aren't seeing the similarities or ridiculousness of deadlines when implemented in both environments.

a reply to: quintessentone

Plans to address those needs.

Plans .... sorry if I'm underwhelmed.

Where is the $$ for these multitude of individualized plans to be realized?

Ah, utopia!

originally posted by: quintessentone
This is not rewarding bad behaviour this is replacing punishment with guidance and exploring different strategies where 'all' children have a better chance at success. That's basic common sense.

No that's not common sense.

If a child cheats, they get punished. That's how they learn not to cheat.
If a child doesn't do the work, they fail. That's how they learn not to fail.
Provide guidance along with it, but don't cut out the punishment and failing grade.
THEY EARNED IT. Accountability. It's a life lesson.

A little more reading never hurt anyone:

Yet, when it comes to testing a six-year-old child for his academic abilities, we see no harm in punishing the child in the form of low grades. However, a child has no control over the development of his brain or natural aptitudes, both of which are factors in how early a child can learn to read without a struggle.

Grades will affect a child's self-confidence—for better or for worse—and whether or not he views himself as stupid or intelligent. Therefore, if they continue, low grades may eventually become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

However, science has proven what common sense has always known: that children develop at their own pace and not according to an arbitrary schedule set by educational bureaucrats. For some children learning to read will happen sooner, and for other children, it will happen later according to the ripening of their minds.

Many children will give up in the face of discouragement, just like adults do, and we have the statistics to prove that a significant number of our children do give up.

smarthomeschooler.com...

I'll go with trying new strategies instead of doing nothing.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
You are guessing what this plan will do because it is not yet implemented for anyone to make any assessment.

That's not guesswork. That's a fact. That's exactly what it does ... rewarding bad behavior means more bad behavior. This doesn't do the child any favors.

It is not rewarding bad behaviour, it is identifying and strategizing how to help 'all' children succeed.

Help them succeed at what , exactly ?
Filling out a welfare form ?
Bush and his ridiculous "no child left behind" bullsh__ is the reason the US is lagging behind the world in education standards.
The word for today is "incentive"

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Equal pay needs to be earned, just as a grade in school.

I went to college and have a degree in my field, is it fair that some high school kid flipping a burger at mcdonalds should be making the same amount as me?

A living wage for everyone is the answer, IMO.

I have a lot of knowledge about cimmunism in E Germany.
Every worker got paid the same. Thise that worked hard got the same as those who just sat on their asses all day.
Guess what happened?

Real life experience.

What happened was that nobody worked, strived for better or offered something better.
So to get a car ( a random colour and shape Trabant), you had to put your newborn on a waiting list, so when they grew up, they could get one around 18 years old
That's how long the waiting list was.

You needed a plummer or electrician, well get ready for a month or three to wait.
Buildings in disrepair, nobody could be arsed.
Selling quality?
Why if chhit sells just as well with less work.

I think you are young and live in a country that never had cimmunism. Because if you just knew the outcomes of your special idea, you wouldn't suggest it.

It turns places into third world, corrupted, criminal hellholes.
No pride in what you can offer, only the shrewdest win.

Well I'm not shrewd. I like honesty, ability, merit, integrity, honour and love to see those people getting all the good things in life who adhere to those principles.

Not too keen on a country where only dodgers make it. It discriminates the ones who make life better rather than destroy everything and run it into the ground.

Call me whatever but life feels better in an honest, striving society. Each to their own.
It seems like children are running the show and it's a disaster.

originally posted by: Hecate666

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Equal pay needs to be earned, just as a grade in school.

I went to college and have a degree in my field, is it fair that some high school kid flipping a burger at mcdonalds should be making the same amount as me?

A living wage for everyone is the answer, IMO.

I have a lot of knowledge about cimmunism in E Germany.
Every worker got paid the same. Thise that worked hard got the same as those who just sat on their asses all day.
Guess what happened?

Real life experience.

What happened was that nobody worked, strived for better or offered something better.
So to get a car ( a random colour and shape Trabant), you had to put your newborn on a waiting list, so when they grew up, they could get one around 18 years old
That's how long the waiting list was.

You needed a plummer or electrician, well get ready for a month or three to wait.
Buildings in disrepair, nobody could be arsed.
Selling quality?
Why if chhit sells just as well with less work.

I think you are young and live in a country that never had cimmunism. Because if you just knew the outcomes of your special idea, you wouldn't suggest it.

It turns places into third world, corrupted, criminal hellholes.
No pride in what you can offer, only the shrewdest win.

Well I'm not shrewd. I like honesty, ability, merit, integrity, honour and love to see those people getting all the good things in life who adhere to those principles.

Not too keen on a country where only dodgers make it. It discriminates the ones who make life better rather than destroy everything and run it into the ground.

Call me whatever but life feels better in an honest, striving society. Each to their own.
It seems like children are running the show and it's a disaster.

Germany still has minimum wages not living wages as per this article.

www.reuters.com...

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
You are guessing what this plan will do because it is not yet implemented for anyone to make any assessment.

That's not guesswork. That's a fact. That's exactly what it does ... rewarding bad behavior means more bad behavior. This doesn't do the child any favors.

It is not rewarding bad behaviour, it is identifying and strategizing how to help 'all' children succeed.

Help them succeed at what , exactly ?
Filling out a welfare form ?
Bush and his ridiculous "no child left behind" bullsh__ is the reason the US is lagging behind the world in education standards.
The word for today is "incentive"

What incentive does a child have when getting a zero or "F" mark?