"Grading for Equity" - Portland Schools Mull Banning Zeroes for Cheating and Not Doing Work

a reply to: quintessentone

Oooh, you got me there

I guess sayings can't have more than one meaning?

The premise of the saying is the same, but in your blatant obtuseness I guess you might have overlooked that.

a reply to: quintessentone

As stated in a previous response to your assinine idea: "Find the funding for all schools to implement special treatment for all kids and let us know"

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Equal pay needs to be earned, just as a grade in school.

I went to college and have a degree in my field, is it fair that some high school kid flipping a burger at mcdonalds should be making the same amount as me?

Depends on the degree some contribute less to society than a burger flipper

All of it should be based on value of contribution to society

I wouldn't want someone who failed math cooking my food

a reply to: quintessentone

School educators. Trust the people running our FAILING schools.

I spent time in a 3rd world country that has FAR FAR better schools, for all children. Every single village has a beautiful school you can see from the main road, and a mosque. They go to school 6 days a week. In school all day, not half or 3/4 day for teacher prep. Not all schools have busses that drive around and bring kids. I saw donkeys tied up at the school. I was told the children that have to ride them to school get made fun of. So many walk the miles.

They leave school speaking 3 languages. Arabic, Amazigh and French. Many went home to satellite dish TV with American programming. They watched with subtitles on and learn English.

This country one day will have a higher standard of living than US. In a generation maybe. It's that dire. Go visit a country that is pulling themselves out of poverty and succeeding in the modern world.

America is on the decline. Schools are a big reason why. But yeah, trust the people that have created the joke we call education today.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Why can't equal pay be risen to a living wage for all? If it was what do you think the vote would be then?

Because we do not have Star Trek replicators yet...

Living wage means nothing to me. My living wage is 500k, is that OK with you? The way you need to think about all this is what is a living cost.

When you look back at the USSR people didn't live so well. It was a quagmire of poor performance because wages meant little and so positional power became the true currency. That positional power was at all levels, the manager of the flats would suggest if you gave him head a few days a week you might get a nice flat, or not kicked out of the one you have now. Rinse and repeat all the way up the chain of power with each level demanding more from everyone below them. Everyone but the upper 1% was equal with having almost nothing. People would stand in lines not even knowing what was on the other end.

Is this what you want to see as a replacement for competition based on monetary levels then have fun with that. At least when things are based on earnings all have the availability to earn as much or as little as they want in life. The other way you are stuck no matter what you do and humans find other ways to "get ahead" in life.

So where you need to start is by figuring out what a basic cost of living looks like, I'm sure you would not like my answer to that.

originally posted by: quintessentone

That pace for all plan would allow the overachievers who finish before all others (like me) to explore other interests, perhaps for extra rewards. The sky's the limit.

Who pays for all this? When you first go into the military you have 50 people living together all doing the same thing as that is the cheapest way to manage 50 people. Your Utopia here means the community gets involved as we see them hire fewer and fewer teachers and ratios keep growing to crazy limits, hows 45 students per teacher sound?

So we have bad ratios, many communities don't get involved, parents suck.... So tell me how do we do it?

A little reading never hurt anyone:

THE ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY QUESTION

To compensate for the flaws of the 100-point grading scale, many districts now turn to minimum grading, automatically resetting zeroes to 50, for example. Critics of the approach say that no-zero policies fail to prepare kids for the real world and encourage students to coast and wait for opportune moments to buckle down. Students will inevitably put in minimal effort, the argument goes, when they know there’s a safety net and a chance to rebound in the future.

But Carifio and Carey found the opposite to be true. In a comprehensive 2015 study, they analyzed seven years’ worth of data for more than 29,000 high school students, looking at the impact that minimum grading had on test scores, grade inflation, and graduation rates. Compared with their counterparts in schools with traditional grading schemes, students who benefited from minimum grading actually put more effort into their learning, earning higher scores on state exams and graduating at higher rates.

In fact, for many students, according to the researchers, receiving a zero was demoralizing—not corrective. “The assigning of even a small number of catastrophically low grades, especially early in the marking term, before student self-efficacy can be established, can create this sense of helplessness,” Carifio and Carey explain, putting students in an impossible situation and discouraging them for the rest of the grading period. Giving students a lifeline out of a ruinous situation keeps them engaged and motivated to do better, the research suggests.

The claim about real-life norms is also dubious. There are times when deadlines must be strictly enforced, but for the most part, employers are typically forgiving of extensions and late work, recognizing that “assigned deadlines can be stressfully tight, compromising output quality,” according to a 2022 study, which also found that 53 percent of workplace deadlines were flexible. In fact, “deadline estimates are often overly optimistic,” and adhering to them too stringently can dramatically increase burnout.

www.edutopia.org...

originally posted by: quintessentone
Not children, they do the opposite. They need self-esteem and confidence building, encouragement and extra tutoring if necessary for the path to success..

No. They don't do the opposite of basic psychology. If you fail, then you change so you don't fail again. It's evolutionary. Hard wired into all humans. When you tell people they can't fail no matter what, then they do not learn anything except not to bother trying.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Oooh, you got me there

I guess sayings can't have more than one meaning?

The premise of the saying is the same, but in your blatant obtuseness I guess you might have overlooked that.

The premise of the saying is not the same.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Not children, they do the opposite. They need self-esteem and confidence building, encouragement and extra tutoring if necessary for the path to success..

No. They don't do the opposite of basic psychology. If you fail, then you change so you don't fail again. It's evolutionary. Hard wired into all humans. When you tell people they can't fail no matter what, then they do not learn anything except not to bother trying.

Try child developmental psychology not basic psychology.

originally posted by: quintessentone
There should be no homework, there should be work at one's own pace within a longer timeframe..

There should be homework, and the kiddos need to put down the video games and do some work to pass.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

As stated in a previous response to your assinine idea: "Find the funding for all schools to implement special treatment for all kids and let us know"

I never posted that idea, find it and repost it in your reply to me.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Why can't equal pay be risen to a living wage for all?

Because not every job is worthy of a 'living wage'. Anyone can flip a burger and so the pay is low. Not everyone can be a neurologist, putting in the work at school and learning complex medical information, so the pay is high.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
There should be no homework, there should be work at one's own pace within a longer timeframe..

There should be homework, and the kiddos need to put down the video games and do some work to pass.

Well we disagree on that point. I just think a longer timeframe to complete work should be in place for less stress, anxiety and information overload on children.

a reply to: quintessentone

"impact that minimum grading had on test scores, grade inflation, and graduation rates."

Of course there were increases in all of those when you go from a 0 to an actual grade. All for doing the same, nothing, they have been doing.

What a loaded study that proves absolutely nothing but when you give people credit for something that they didn't do, it boosts their grades. What a surprise


What workplaces were they studying to find that percentage? Obviously nothing too important. Yeah I get it, if Suzie misses the deadline for a new cover design for a book the world isn't going to collapse. But, if Sandy misses the deadline for shipping computer chips to the local car maker, the line shuts down, people get sent home without pay and those families go hungry all because a DEADLINE was missed.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Why can't equal pay be risen to a living wage for all?

Because not every job is worthy of a 'living wage'. Anyone can flip a burger and so the pay is low. Not everyone can be a neurologist, putting in the work at school and learning complex medical information, so the pay is high.

What are you a government minion?

a reply to: quintessentone

When I was a senior is HS, we had a paper assigned to us at the beginning of the year that was due a week before graduation. You can bet that there were those that waited until the last minute to do it or didn't do it at all and missed the deadline.


so tell me again how longer timeframes to complete work help?

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

"impact that minimum grading had on test scores, grade inflation, and graduation rates."

Of course there were increases in all of those when you go from a 0 to an actual grade. All for doing the same, nothing, they have been doing.

What a loaded study that proves absolutely nothing but when you give people credit for something that they didn't do, it boosts their grades. What a surprise


What workplaces were they studying to find that percentage? Obviously nothing too important. Yeah I get it, if Suzie misses the deadline for a new cover design for a book the world isn't going to collapse. But, if Sandy misses the deadline for shipping computer chips to the local car maker, the line shuts down, people get sent home without pay and those families go hungry all because a DEADLINE was missed.

Here is the study, have at it.

www.sciencedirect.com...

originally posted by: quintessentone
We can't put the same expectations on children as we do adults .

We certainly can put the same expectations on children in regards to meeting deadlines and doing the work you are assigned. That's how they learn what life is about and what is expected of them so they can be contributing citizens. If they don't learn that lesson, they just go on to sponge off others, usually the tax payer.

a reply to: quintessentone

Likely, they are someone who doesn't favor handing out things to those that don't deserve it.