Why The USA Must End Drug Prohibition

originally posted by: EternalShadow
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Our society isn't mature enough to handle legalized drugs. It would only sink us further into the abyss. Alcohol is one thing, but narcotics are a different story.

Legalizing only normalizes societal rot.

My opinion is fk no.

I used to do drugs, I still do but I used to too. Mitch Hedberg

Me too, but before it was completely recreational, somewhere along the way it became medicinal. Still, I'm legal just D8 and it does me just fine, but I'm on board with the medicinal benefits of D9 and shrooms.

No, respectfully alcohol is worse a lot worse, just because it's been packaged and served to you by slick advertisers, in a lot of ways it is worse.

Alcohol is definitely worse than reefer, ganja, or whatever your favorite term is for the wildwood flower. Alcohol is infinitely more physically and psychologically addicting.

I've lived with alcoholics and I've lived with extreme stoners, A stoner doesn't lose their chit, like alcoholics do.

I agree with the hard stuff coc aine, crack, and heroin need to be regulated but hell fentanyl has no place in society and it really should be hospice-type care stuff and it's not. It's prescribed too often and now we have a fentanyl problem where there was none 15-20 years ago.

It took a while but I thought drinking and drug use, in general, was on the decline in teenagers, does it mean it's the boomers getting a buzz?

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
a reply to: CoyoteAngels

Fentanyl...I can probably think of a hundred other substances nearly as toxic if not as toxic, that if they can't be purchased directly over the counter, could easily be produced in a kitchen with simple cooking utensils, in less than twelve hours. Put it in a bottle marked poison and call it a day.

The chemicals are highly toxic, dangerous AND explosive. BAD idea.

What's driving the demand for fentanyl is heroin users who can't afford to get high anymore, because that is the nature of heroin use and addiction. Most heroin users can never get as high as they could when they started, which leads them to seek this more concentrated substance. If heroin were legal and available in stores for a reasonable price, the demand for fentanyl just went away. A large part of the high price for opium based illicit drugs is the scarcity of them, a direct result of prohibition. Responsible users could grow and refine their own opium

Users are addicts looking for a fix and most have no idea their drug of choice is being cut with Fentanyl, thus the high rate of overdose deaths plaguing the nation.

If fentanyl were available in a quality controlled form, hardcore users could get their fixes without this drug ever needing to be smuggled anywhere. I'm pretty sure all the kids aren't going to run out and give some a try all of a sudden. Child endangerment laws would still exist.

An attitude like this suggests someone who's never had children and is most likely still a juvenile themselves. Loving parents don't want to play Russian Roulette with their children's lives, legal or not.

There is irrefutable scientific evidence proving the damage these substances do to the human brain AND body, especially while it's still developing. Rather than making such things legal, we should be fighting tooth and nail to get all the harmful chemicals out of our environment, water, prescription drugs and food supply. You're just advocating for adding more poison to the mix.

Alcohol is legal, as long as you don't drink and drive. How's that working out? Why would anyone think legalizing drug use for 'weekends only' would be any different?

I'm beginning to think you're just playing; the alternative explanation isn't nearly as kind.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Our society isn't mature enough to handle legalized drugs. It would only sink us further into the abyss. Alcohol is one thing, but narcotics are a different story.

Legalizing only normalizes societal rot.

My opinion is fk no.

Does it really though? How many of those users might just have this pastime that most of the rest of us would find a bit distasteful, were it not for prohibition? I think the socialization of illicit drug users into the criminal element is a big part of the scourge of drug prohibition in this nation. Countless millions placed at odds with the law, unwilling to interact fully in society for fear of the consequences.

Many are likely to wind up in prison in time, due to this socialization with the criminal element that would not exist if drugs were not prohibited. A person who doesn't feel like they're doing anything wrong is likely to come to resent institutions over time on account of prohibition. I can't say that I blame them. Prohibition is wrong.

Stiffer penalties won't bring them to the table. More treatment won't, for those content with their situation and unwilling to seek it. Ending prohibition can, and will, in time.

Believe it or not, there are such things as functional addicts, who would essentially be law abiding citizens if not for drug prohibition. The socialization of drug users into the criminal element on account of prohibition blurs these lines though. An otherwise law abiding user will have to associate with the criminal element just as a matter of course.

a reply to: nugget1

Yet plenty of people drink responsibly and don't drive while intoxicated.

Kids...see that's the thing. These drugs are available right now. Prohibition doesn't change that. Ending prohibition would give users the opportunity to actually know what they are taking. Endangering children with intoxicating substances is illegal right now. Ending prohibition doesn't change that.

If you care about the well being of your children and that of children in general, you should want this. It takes drugs off the streets and puts them on drug store shelves in clearly marked bottles instead.

I've read and heard the stories too, about fentanyl laced drugs. Seen the reality of it in real life. I really think most of the demand is from heroin users who want to be able to catch the dragon for a change. Regardless, ending prohibition provides the opportunity for quality control and easy identification of these substances. If you eliminate the illicit trade by ending prohibition, the messiness of poor quality control and the disguising of fentanyl by adding it to another pill will go away.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: EternalShadow
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Our society isn't mature enough to handle legalized drugs. It would only sink us further into the abyss. Alcohol is one thing, but narcotics are a different story.

Legalizing only normalizes societal rot.

My opinion is fk no.

I used to do drugs, I still do but I used to too. Mitch Hedberg

Me too, but before it was completely recreational, somewhere along the way it became medicinal. Still, I'm legal just D8 and it does me just fine, but I'm on board with the medicinal benefits of D9 and shrooms.

No, respectfully alcohol is worse a lot worse, just because it's been packaged and served to you by slick advertisers, in a lot of ways it is worse.

Alcohol is definitely worse than reefer, ganja, or whatever your favorite term is for the wildwood flower. Alcohol is infinitely more physically and psychologically addicting.

I've lived with alcoholics and I've lived with extreme stoners, A stoner doesn't lose their chit, like alcoholics do.

I agree with the hard stuff coc aine, crack, and heroin need to be regulated but hell fentanyl has no place in society and it really should be hospice-type care stuff and it's not. It's prescribed too often and now we have a fentanyl problem where there was none 15-20 years ago.

It took a while but I thought drinking and drug use, in general, was on the decline in teenagers, does it mean it's the boomers getting a buzz?

I was comparing alcohol to narcotics, not alcohol to "jazz cabbage".

Use amongst older folks who never used is actually trending. The "pay now play later crowd" that stayed the path and we're successful are now spreading their wings in their 50's and 60's. I say more power to those folks.

It's a different story for those who haven't and probably never will accomplish anything but spending their miserable lives getting high.

Now I'm all for letting people spend that life as they see fit. However, I'm not for those people and groups bringing down the standards of living and existing for everyone because they gave up.

Just look around, if it looks like this while it's illegal, how do you think it's going to be when it goes mainstream??

We need CLASS and sophistication to return to society, not the freedom to do drugs.

Geezus christ....how about raising the bar instead of making the hole bigger??
🙄SMH.

a reply to: Degradation33

It only filters to the cartel while drugs are prohibited. Putting an end to prohibition neutralizes this economic dynamic. That said, I tend to agree with your assessment as to what I subjectively consider to be possibly beneficial versus harmful, and the scientific studies and culture of use of these various substances tends to support our thoughts on this.

Regardless, I think it should all be legal, because prohibition is wrong.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Kids...see that's the thing. These drugs are available right now. Prohibition doesn't change that. Ending prohibition would give users the opportunity to actually know what they are taking. Endangering children with intoxicating substances is illegal right now. Ending prohibition doesn't change that.

Do you really think legalizing them would make them available to children over-the-counter? or, do you think it would just open up a whole new market targeting children? It just makes the supply for pushers easier to obtain; no more drug busts transporting it. What are the 10,000+ DEA's earning $56,000+ per year supposed to do? Go on welfare?

you should want this.

That'll be a gold day in hell.

additional thought, had a buddy in high school that did every drug that came through central florida.

Then one day after graduating he decided to give up everything but weed and beer and go to school, we all laughed at him.

Came out of college with a graduate degree in robotic engineering (or something similar) 4.0 gpa, that has him building prosthetics that tie directly into the nervous system.

He is the exception not the rule, most people cannot exert that level of control on themselves, he never did them as an escape he did them because he enjoyed it and wanted to try them.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
a reply to: Irishhaf

Sure but the mail man? If he wants to do some coke on the weekend or in the evenings why should that matter, provided he performs his job well enough?

So the mailman delivering mail to the Supreme court justices has a drug addiction, who says he only need a snort now and again, if it gets out of control he becomes a liability.

Lotta people hate justices, or congressional people, guy with a drug addiction gets promised a ticket to a non-extradition country and all the drugs they can do if they just slip this special package in the mail.

This scenario makes sense in a nation where prohibition is the law of the land. In a nation where prohibition has ended, such a scenario makes no sense at all.

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie

originally posted by: EternalShadow
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Our society isn't mature enough to handle legalized drugs. It would only sink us further into the abyss. Alcohol is one thing, but narcotics are a different story.

Legalizing only normalizes societal rot.

My opinion is fk no.

Does it really though? How many of those users might just have this pastime that most of the rest of us would find a bit distasteful, were it not for prohibition? I think the socialization of illicit drug users into the criminal element is a big part of the scourge of drug prohibition in this nation. Countless millions placed at odds with the law, unwilling to interact fully in society for fear of the consequences.

Many are likely to wind up in prison in time, due to this socialization with the criminal element that would not exist if drugs were not prohibited. A person who doesn't feel like they're doing anything wrong is likely to come to resent institutions over time on account of prohibition. I can't say that I blame them. Prohibition is wrong.

Stiffer penalties won't bring them to the table. More treatment won't, for those content with their situation and unwilling to seek it. Ending prohibition can, and will, in time.

Believe it or not, there are such things as functional addicts, who would essentially be law abiding citizens if not for drug prohibition. The socialization of drug users into the criminal element on account of prohibition blurs these lines though. An otherwise law abiding user will have to associate with the criminal element just as a matter of course.

I like what Duarte is doing in the Philippines. I'm so sick of people having "compassion and understanding" for vice and degeneracy. "Functional addicts"... HAHAHA.

Most people won't even begin to dry out unless they're locked up. Drug induced psychosis is a real thing, is that supposed to subside too with legalization? Addiction is addiction. Are the drugs going to be legal AND free?? How will that affect crime? Being so openly legal, what are the long term affects of children having to navigate their way through drug users to get to school like they are now??

Sounds fine to whoever I suppose, but not me. Sorry, but if you're making drugs a priority in your life, you're a fkn loser.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

you make some good points but some are merely anecdotal, for example, if not for the ones I abused in the 90's I would not have the faith in my religion I do now.

As for legalization of ALL narcotics, absolutely not, I 75% disagree.
I think some narcotics should be regulated, Marijuana, Psilocybin, and other natural drugs. When you start using chemistry to manufacture methamphetamines and other highly addictive substances your crossing the line.

As for imprisonment for simple narcotic violations i think the main here is that most of those prisons are "for profit" and it also generates money for the state, get past those issues first.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: TheBadCabbie


Do you really think legalizing them would make them available to children over-the-counter? or, do you think it would just open up a whole new market targeting children? It just makes the supply for pushers easier to obtain.

I have no idea why you would think this is anything I want, or how you could reach this conclusion by reading the words that I have typed in this thread so far.

Look, if it's available inexpensively to adults in a store, that eliminates 99.9% of the incentive for an illegal trade to even exist in the first place. This would make it very unlikely for anyone, child or adult, to encounter it by accident in an illicit drug deal.

As to this dark fantasy of yours that all of the kids are suddenly going to run out and try it, simply because we no longer imprison people for possessing it, I just don't see it working out that way. I think you're wrong.

Heroin possession has recently(last ten years) been decriminalized in a number of states. All possession charges are misdemeanors in perpetuity. I don't know anybody who decided to run out and try it all of a sudden on account of that.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for drug use. I'm advocating for an end to drug prohibition, because it is wrong.

People should be able to put whatever intoxicating substances into their bodies that they choose. There should be no criminal penalties for this activity. Punishing people for this activity is un-American. Americans should enjoy the right to liberty enumerated in our Declaration Of Independence. That is the right thing to do. Let people make their own choices.

The rift that the drug culture has created in this country will not end with stiffer penalties. It will only end with an end to drug prohibition.

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie

Look, if it's available inexpensively to adults in a store, that eliminates 99.9% of the incentive for an illegal trade to even exist in the first place. This would make it very unlikely for anyone, child or adult, to encounter it by accident in an illicit drug deal.

From personal experience, in both MA as well as FL the "legal marijuana" system was set up by individuals for them to make profit before any legislation was passed. In both states, the black market prices are still cheaper.
In MA. you can grow your own though so that helps but store prices are over inflated with extra taxes and such.
In FL. its medical only and it cost so much that many people I know have bought once, then use that packaging to carry black market merchandise to prevent getting arrested.
To note John Morgan is Azzhole

Heroin possession has recently(last ten years) been decriminalized in a number of states. All possession charges are misdemeanors in perpetuity. I don't know anybody who decided to run out and try it all of a sudden on account of that.

I would like to research this, which states are you refering to?

originally posted by: quintessentone
I recall reading an old book back in the 70s where the history of why marijuana was made illegal by the government is because they didn't want a bunch of stoned lazy citizens or what they feared society would become, they wanted sober taxable slave workers not self-exploring with drugs.

As for other drugs, the government, very stupid people with power, somehow let the opioid crisis happen and it has never gone away.

I agree with you that possession of small amounts of whatever is you desire should be made legal.

“You want to know what this [war on drugs] was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying?

We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.

Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

~ John Ehrlichman, Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs under President Richard Nixon

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: quintessentone
I recall reading an old book back in the 70s where the history of why marijuana was made illegal by the government is because they didn't want a bunch of stoned lazy citizens or what they feared society would become, they wanted sober taxable slave workers not self-exploring with drugs.

As for other drugs, the government, very stupid people with power, somehow let the opioid crisis happen and it has never gone away.

I agree with you that possession of small amounts of whatever is you desire should be made legal.

“You want to know what this [war on drugs] was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying?

We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.

Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

~ John Ehrlichman, Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs under President Richard Nixon

It didn't work. lol

addictionrehabcenters.ca...

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

It needs to be distributed by the state under controlled conditions. It needs total regulation and oversight to even begin to stop feeding the s#bags of the world.

Logistically, how do you do that?

Department of Narcotic Safety?

You can legalize black tar heroin, but no oversight is going into the supply end. It's not like Taliban stops taking a cut, no matter how clean the supply chain is believed to be down the line.

The world of hard drugs is corrupt. And unless the state cultivates the poppies, cacao beans, owns the industrial meth lab, and controls every aspect of the chain, the s#bags retain control.

Permissive, maybe decriminalization, but never an illicit producer. They'll refer you to Amphetamine Salt and their vast library of opioids.

Ultimately, the supply chain will always involve the Taliban, South America, Majorly f***** Cartels, and China.

While I'm really permissive of trippy drugs, and use cannabis regularly, I'm disgusted by addicts.

Addicts are often dirty, diseased, angry, addled people, that don't need the pursuit of that made any easier. I'm also of the opinion, once someone is an addict (even out of control alcoholics) that loses control of their life, and gets taking over by their addiction, they forfeit their privilege to make their own decisions. As far as forced detox for habitual offenders (that refuse to quit) and zero tolerance for recidivism therafter. Can't control yourself, get controlled until you can. Even expanding privatized prisons specifically to house people that refuse to quit and permanently remove them from society unless they agree to and stay sober.

Rehabilitation through threat of staying there forever. So much more effective than 12 steps.

Not much compassion left there. No problem with my own judgement and hypocrisy. It demands authoritarianism.

Anything to reinstill fear of its illegality. I shouldn't have to see their scab covered derelict asses smoking heroin off foil on a sidewalk in broad daylight. That's disgusting sh*t.

Silver Lining: decriminalization, while still feeding cartels, has culled Portland, Oregon's drug addicts nicely. Fatal overdoses up 250%. Business is up for Hazmat clean-up businesses, and EMT's are in demand.

a reply to: Degradation33

I'm not sure how growing your own drug products will eliminate the drug dealers because they will just make it cheaper to buy from them instead of the government, as is the problem in Canada.

“The illicit drug trade provides organized crime with one of its most financially lucrative criminal markets. A well-regulated legal cannabis industry is in place and is significantly displacing the black market,” said the note. “Today the legal cannabis market accounts for approximately 67% of market shares. However, there continues to be a well-entrenched illegal market in place.”

The briefing says drug dealers sell marijuana at a 55% discount compared to licensed retailers.

torontosun.com...

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Are you going to require EMS to respond to overdoses or just let the addicts provide their own Narcan?

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Yeah, I know, druggies want legal drugs.