At What Point Do We Decide?

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
40 people?

Grusch has 40+ people, all clearanced and credentialed giving him the same story. You think 40 people are misleading him and exaggerating? Seriously?

Why not? Though they may not even be doing it intentionally. Just look at the example of David Fravor. He saw something in the sky he didn't understand, and jumped to the conclusion it was alien, because he is familiar with all known aircraft in the Air force etc and he knows that none of them can do what he saw. So it's possible that Fravor really believes what he saw was alien, and if he tells other people and that gets to Grusch that what he saw must have been alien, then Grusch could honestly say people told him that. So in that example, virtually nobody would be intentionally telling a lie, but still the information that what Fravor saw was alien could be completely false.

It's painfully obvious that Fravor is not the only person to jump to unwarranted conclusions. Maybe what Fravor saw was alien, but there are plenty of other possibilities he doesn't seem to have considered in jumping to that conclusion, like all the secret projects he doesn't know about from skunk works, area 51, etc. Its really not hard at all to think 40 people or more can jump to conclusions just like Fravor did. Jumping to conclusions is common enough logical fallacy to warrant its own wikipedia article so Fravor is certainly not the only person doing this:

Jumping to conclusions ... is a psychological term referring to a communication obstacle where one "judge[s] or decide[s] something without having all the facts; to reach unwarranted conclusions". In other words, "when I fail to distinguish between what I observed first hand from what I have only inferred or assumed".

In fact this behavior is so common I wouldn't be at all surprised if you and I also fell victim to this ourselves at some point in our lives, but it's certainly how I would characterize David Fravor's claim that what he saw was alien. I can easily imagine way way more than 40 people exhibiting this behavior, it's rather easy to do.

We've even seen it in the field of science which is why science has numerous mechanisms to weed out some of the false conclusions that even scientists can jump to. Scientific claims need to stand up to scientific scrutiny and congressmen by and large are more likely to be lawyers than scientists so are not the best people to assess the evidence that Grusch claims exists but can't show us. If the congressperson is a scientist, they might be qualified but even then maybe not because science these days tends to be highly specialized to the point where a scientist in one field may not qualified to judge the work of scientists in other fields where they lack expertise. I'm not sure if there even are any scientists qualified to tell what's alien and what's not, but certainly any such claims would warant extensive scrutiny before being accepted, scrutiny that may not be received where things are "secret".

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Basically we don't know what some UFOs are, and saying "they might be interdimensional" gets us nowhere, it's just another way of saying we don't know what they are, plus then you have to explain what exactly interdimensional means, which you can't do. So it's better to leave off the interdimensional part and say we don't know what the UFOs are.

I respect Dr. Jacques Vallee and Dr. Gary Nolan of Stanford University as they are now both considering the interdimensional element of UFO's and ET.

Experts also studying Sleep Paralysis are also heading down that path as they are finding a link between UFO's and visitations by entities while in Paralysis. Dr. David Hufford and Dr. Sheila Pryce Brooks.

I can tell that your not an experiencer like we are. Also look up Michael Lee Hill.

a reply to: spaceflyr

I have contacts at the Federal level basically IG Special Agents who are skilled in reading situations and people criminally. I asked one as to what his take on Grush.

He wrote back that Grush was allowed to speak on the UFO subject by someone within the federal government and that he was basically reading from a script as made available to him by those within the government that want to have disclosure. I have seen and filmed UFO's over South Carolina and Georgia. Many other OPS on ATS also have too as they live here.

My opinion

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe. YES

Two, they are from deep within our oceans. Yes, especially the silent black triangles. I one I saw had 100's of geometric projections on its belly like a printed circuit board. I thought it would land at Cherry Point NC but another OP said no, the ocean. Look up cirquids

Cirquids

Three, they are inter dimensional. Yes IMO reference ~ Sleep Paralysis ~ Dark Intrusions by Lewis Proud.

Has no one considered the possibility that this is an elaborate way of seeding the idea that NATO has wonder weapons? Indirect messaging to nuclear capable adversaries?

I don’t personally believe it but I haven’t seen it suggested elsewhere.

originally posted by: spaceflyr
...demon’s trying to pollute the genetics once again of the human race.

Demons can't pollute the human gene pool. They are pure spirit with no reproduction capabilities.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

But that is then ignoring the fact that there are people whos job it is to oversee Skunkworks and DARPA and all the other SAPs, and they havevconcluded that we dont even have anything CLOSE.

Fravor himself works for a defense contractor now, and re-iterated.that in our tech plans hopes and dreams we have nothing even in the same galaxy being built or even planned.

Going from 80k feet or outer space to seal level in a second and stopping on a dime, is the kind of stuff we dont even have the material science for.

Hi,
Please let me correct some of your premises. Even though I spent a lifetime searching scriptures and biblical history both Aramaic and Jewish I find much of it to not be substantiated by real facts. Adam and Eve is strictly a story. Just about all biblical scholars know this and agree. Most of the history of the Jews in the Bible has also been proven as false are simply stories passed down through oral tradition. Case in point the Exodus has been proven to have never occurred, both proven through biblical archaeology and ancient records recorded by different historians. Evolution biologists have proven with DNA mapping and Genetic Markers that the human race has evolved through evolutionary processes not from a biblical perspective. At the council of Nicea in 325 men decided what Jesus was. They also decided what books would make the Cannon. They also altered several books to fit into the Cannon to convey their characters and stories that were passed down through generations of Jewish oral traditions. This is proven through many historical references and studies that are publicly accessible. To say that the so called devil is real you should do a deep dive to see where the name Satan originated from. Also the word Hell was never in the original biblical texts, the word Gehenna was the city trash dump outside the city walls where even dead bodies were burned that died due to disease of which the townspeople were deadly scared of, All scholars know this simple fact yet hell is preached as a real place of torment.
Much of the biblical literature is Jewish oral tradition from the Torah not substantiated by either religion or historical archaeology evidence.

Your welcome


reply to: TrulyColorBlind

a reply to: spaceflyr

Enlighten me ……..

You state the following

Also the word Hell was never in the original biblical texts, the word Gehenna was the city trash dump outside the city walls where even dead bodies were burned that died due to disease of which the townspeople were deadly scared of, All scholars know this simple fact yet hell is preached as a real place of torment.

Which ‘original biblical texts’?

In which Bible version or books within the Bible (over the more than 100 versions of the Bible)……are you referencing, to make such a statement that the word/place of “Hell” of torment and fire doesn’t exist?

If your not using any Bible to assert what you’ve stated….then what’s your esoteric source to explain your position that the word/place “Gehenna”, should have been used throughout the Bible to denote a type of “Hell”….instead of using the actual word…Hell itself.

If you have a link, that would be appreciated.

👽

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
a reply to: Arbitrageur

But that is then ignoring the fact that there are people whos job it is to oversee Skunkworks and DARPA and all the other SAPs, and they havevconcluded that we dont even have anything CLOSE.

You didn't mention any names of these clueless people but apparently they have never watched youtube videos showing we have technology on Earth that can make Fravor see things such as he described. Keep in mind this is just a public demonstration, it doesn't even show the superior capabilities in classified or black projects but we know the military is working on projecting false images of aircraft to confuse enemies, both visually and on their radars.

Fravor himself works for a defense contractor now, and re-iterated.that in our tech plans hopes and dreams we have nothing even in the same galaxy being built or even planned.

Even if you are clueless and Fravor is clueless, that doesn't mean everybody is clueless; some people have watched that youtube video and have a clue: that type of tech could make Fravor see what he described, if somebody wanted to make him see that.

Going from 80k feet or outer space to seal level in a second and stopping on a dime, is the kind of stuff we dont even have the material science for.

Tell me who knows the radar systems on the Princeton better than the captain of the ship? Kevin Day discussed that with the Captain and Day says the captain told him he thought it was some kind of atmospheric anomaly causing those readings, not any solid object that did that.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

He's right. He likely got this from the ex-minister Paul Wallis and writer of the books Escape From Eden series.

It details that many Hebrew words interpreted historically are somewhat distorted.

The ancient Hebrews or Jews didn't have a detailed theory of Hell as the Christian and Islamic theologies do.

He's right about Gehenna, but it can be a word for hell in a sense. Since the Arbabic, a close Semitic language to Hebrew, the word for hell is Jahannam.

Both words are actually derived from the meaning of the Garden of Eden: Enclosed Garden...

What that may tell us is that Hell is a corruption of the original Garden of Eden after the Fall of Man...

Are aliens real? People online don't seem to care either way

The hearing did spawn a lot of memes, but many of them signaled how uninterested users were in the findings. UFOs, previously a hot topic for conspiracy theorists, are now almost too mundane to break through the news cycle, some users said. "It’s funny; they were talking about UFOs and 'non human biologics' in a hearing yesterday and nobody is paying any attention. There are so many conspiracy theories going on right now, we aren’t even fascinated by Area 51 anymore," one person wrote.

————————

Others said life on Earth was too chaotic and stressful to care about life on other planets. "Are aliens going to fix inflation, cancel student debt, end worker exploitation, pay any of these bills, turn the temp down on this planet; and all around bring happiness to me and my friends miserable lives? No? Then yeah- they can get tf," one person shared.

It’s just they way things have become…….I suspect it’s desensitization in progress, in practice.

👽

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
a reply to: Arbitrageur

But that is then ignoring the fact that there are people whos job it is to oversee Skunkworks and DARPA and all the other SAPs, and they havevconcluded that we dont even have anything CLOSE.

You didn't mention any names of these clueless people but apparently they have never watched youtube videos showing we have technology on Earth that can make Fravor see things such as he described. Keep in mind this is just a public demonstration, it doesn't even show the superior capabilities in classified or black projects but we know the military is working on projecting false images of aircraft to confuse enemies, both visually and on their radars.

Fravor himself works for a defense contractor now, and re-iterated.that in our tech plans hopes and dreams we have nothing even in the same galaxy being built or even planned.

Even if you are clueless and Fravor is clueless, that doesn't mean everybody is clueless; some people have watched that youtube video and have a clue: that type of tech could make Fravor see what he described, if somebody wanted to make him see that.

Going from 80k feet or outer space to seal level in a second and stopping on a dime, is the kind of stuff we dont even have the material science for.

Tell me who knows the radar systems on the Princeton better than the captain of the ship? Kevin Day discussed that with the Captain and Day says the captain told him he thought it was some kind of atmospheric anomaly causing those readings, not any solid object that did that.

I think you are underestimating what actually happened and what was recorded.

Laser holograms are not going to give a radar return,.let alone a 3D radar return in their exact location, matching the exact shape doing the exact things. Its going from 80k ft to sea level in a second.

An actual, physical object. Not a hologram. But an actual physical thing.

More details regarding this are contained in the classified sensor data and the expanded report.

The same object also actively jammed the targeting radar on the jets.

Hi,
The Leningrad Codex, dated 1000 CE,
The Samaritan Pentateuch is a version of the Torah maintained by the Samaritan community since antiquity, which was rediscovered by European scholars in the 17th century; its oldest existing copies date to c. 1100 CE.
They don’t mention hell in the literature or in the oldest codex’s.

The most common New Testament term translated as "Hell" is γέεννα (gehenna), a direct loan of Hebrew גהנום/גהנם (ge-hinnom). Apart from one use in James 3:6, this term is found exclusively in the synoptic text and does not reflect a place of torment as published in modern text which is a mistranslation as stated by biblical scholars. ( Oxford, published 1953)

The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period. (Israeli Religious Studies Association published 1963)

This realm was either called Hell, a word from Germanic mythology, or the Inferno, which was a word for a large fire. Medieval poets and theologians predicted eternal damnation and torture for those who refused to follow the teachings of Christ and the Catholic Church.

Is that enough for you to ponder?






a reply to: Ophiuchus1

a reply to: spaceflyr

Is that enough for you to ponder?

Yes…it is for now 👍🏼

Interesting indeed….see the below

What The Hell Is Hell?

👽

a reply to: Arbitrageur

This has been happening through the ages when the tech did not exist! And through 1941 when foo fighters were showing up till now, they were always decades in front of us. If we had the tech of the reported sightings by the military, of craft travelling thousands of mph in the 40's then why did they persist in all the wars after using outdated tech allowing so many soldiers to die?

Foo Fighters 1.0


Foo Fighters 2.0

👽

Hi,
I just wanted to say when I wrote “ Is that enough for you to ponder.” I did not mean that in a rude way, if it came across that way I do apologize.

Cheers friend
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: spaceflyr
Hi,
I just wanted to say when I wrote “ Is that enough for you to ponder.” I did not mean that in a rude way, if it came across that way I do apologize.

Cheers friend
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

🍻

👽

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: putnam6
It's fairly in-depth, 4 years and 40 different witnesses and they all were lying to Grusch? that in itself would suggest a disinformation campaign. Why would the DoD do this to an investigator, who by all accounts has impeccable character and scruples?

Why did Richard Doty lie to Paul Bennewicz? Why were we all lied to in project Serpo? Why is the US and the UK training agents on how to spread false information (this was reveled in the Snowden leaks)?

A spook’s guide to the psychology of deception

You really haven't realized any of this yet? Or if you have, why would you find it so implausible? We are lied to every day about many things. I'm not saying Grusch is lying, there really is a story about a Mussolini related UFO circulating, which he has apparently heard and believes. But that story is not very believable, and if you have any experience researching UFOs, hopefully you have realized that lots of the circulating stories have problems. That you don't think the US government would consider using these stories to their advantage if they saw an advantage seems rather naive. The department of defense might not be as active as the intelligence community, the latter being where Elizondo and Grusch gained experience. But even the defense department works on projects to fool the enemy with deception, like the ability to make confusing swarms of non-existent aircraft appear on their radar when situations call for that.

The Navy’s Secretive And Revolutionary Program To Project False Fleets From Drone Swarms

After a period of Glasnost beginning in the '90s the US is back to sort of a cold war state with Russia and maybe even China, and in war, cold or hot, deception is a strategy. Actually the war with Russia isn't even cold, it's a proxy war. If the US wants Russia and China to believe the propaganda, maybe they figure that will be easier if they can get their own citizens to believe it first, and these congressional hearings might seem to give the claims some kind of legitimacy (in spite of not having any legitimate evidence available so far). So if Russia and China come to believe that tue US has secret advanced technology that they reverse engineered from alien craft, what effect would that have on Russia and China? Whether it's actually true or not is a separate issue, but it may have a similar effect either way, so there's one possible motive for deception but not the only one.

So because people have lied in the past means Grusch, Graves, and Fravor are lying now?

Besides AGAIN if he is lying then he has convinced Congress to investigate and/or Congress is also lying and covering up.

As well as if he is lying then let him release all the videos and evidence he supposedly has. With the sensitive areas redacted?


Again the now-acknowledged UAP tic tac video, the one they wanted to cover up is now 15 years old. Why?


nymag.com...

It’s all serving towards the propaganda engine. The tic tac video, the cover up, the discussion of it. It wouldn’t be on CNN if they actually wanted it repressed. It’s all fuel for the same goal- convincing you and other nations the US can’t be messed with because they are so advanced with their “alien tech”. The seeds have been planted for a long time.

a reply to: spaceflyr
What I've got to share doesn't fit neatly into science or religion—it's way beyond that, in the realm of the unexplainable. But here's the real deal, from my time in one of these programs: We're not just your ordinary humans.

Our DNA? It's got a story to tell. Forget the basic primate stuff; we've got a genetic twist that's light-years ahead of our current tech. And there's a puzzle piece in there, something unidentifiable, just waiting to be decoded. This whole genetic remix? It happened a million or two years back, and let me tell you, the theories are wild.

Here's one to ponder: A species, maybe from our very own Earth, faced the brink of extinction due to genetic flaws. Their solution? Create us—humans. Now they're like cosmic babysitters, watching over us as we figure out this whole evolution thing.

When we started playing with nuclear weapons, that really piqued their interest. I mean, we had the power to wipe ourselves out, along with our cozy little planet. So, they're here, keeping tabs on us, like the guardians we never knew we had.

Ask me anything you want; I've already spilled the beans to AARO.