At What Point Do We Decide?

originally posted by: putnam6
So because people have lied in the past means Grusch, Graves, and Fravor are lying now?

Fravor and Graves said they saw things they didn't understand, and Graves didn't even see anything with his own eyes, just with his sensors.

Grusch wouldn't be the one lying, but the people who are telling him stories might be exaggerating. It's easier to get people to believe lies if there's at least some element of truth to the lie. There is indeed a story circulating about a Mussolini UFO which Grusch apparently believes, but in that example I suspect the story itself is a hoax. But Grusch wouldn't be lying when he says someone told him that story, I'm sure they did. The story itself is probably false though.

Likewise, I suspect Grusch is telling the truth that he's been told about a secret crash retreival program. But when it comes to what's been retreived, well we know claims have circulated for years that so-called "Arts Parts" that Tom Delonge paid $35,000 for are allegedly from a crashed alien space ship, but the layering suggests it might just be industrial slag. And there could easily be similar examples within classified crash retreival files where some claim it's alien and told that to Grusch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's alien any more than Arts parts are alien.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

That's the problem with witnesses that are not really witnesses, they are just retelling a story, like Reader's Digest.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: putnam6

When past scientists have suggested electricity affects our physical being they've been shut down and laughed out of the field. I guess we only get to know the bits of truth that's been 'sanctioned' for whatever purpose they wish to use on us.

Interesting, and it got me going down the Nikola Tesla crackpot(?) ideas rabbit hole, specifically 'terrestrial stationary waves' and also magnetic fields.

In Colorado Springs, Colorado, where he stayed from May 1899 until early 1900, Tesla made what he regarded as his most important discovery—terrestrial stationary waves. By this discovery he proved that Earth could be used as a conductor and made to resonate at a certain electrical frequency. He also lit 200 lamps without wires from a distance of 40 km (25 miles) and created man-made lightning, producing flashes measuring 41 metres (135 feet). At one time he was certain he had received signals from another planet in his Colorado laboratory, a claim that was met with derision in some scientific journals.

www.britannica.com...

Could this be added to the list as a #5?

You're all missing one significant point.
And that is WE are the 'aliens', our ancestors have been here for a long time, and are far more advanced than 'humanity '

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Arbitrageur

That's the problem with witnesses that are not really witnesses, they are just retelling a story, like Reader's Digest.

this will start some chit...

Do you mean like the Bible?

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: putnam6
So because people have lied in the past means Grusch, Graves, and Fravor are lying now?

Fravor and Graves said they saw things they didn't understand, and Graves didn't even see anything with his own eyes, just with his sensors.

Grusch wouldn't be the one lying, but the people who are telling him stories might be exaggerating. It's easier to get people to believe lies if there's at least some element of truth to the lie. There is indeed a story circulating about a Mussolini UFO which Grusch apparently believes, but in that example I suspect the story itself is a hoax. But Grusch wouldn't be lying when he says someone told him that story, I'm sure they did. The story itself is probably false though.

Likewise, I suspect Grusch is telling the truth that he's been told about a secret crash retreival program. But when it comes to what's been retreived, well we know claims have circulated for years that so-called "Arts Parts" that Tom Delonge paid $35,000 for are allegedly from a crashed alien space ship, but the layering suggests it might just be industrial slag. And there could easily be similar examples within classified crash retreival files where some claim it's alien and told that to Grusch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's alien any more than Arts parts are alien.

So you do know Grusch has been showing Congresspersons evidence for a while now, it has been enough evidence for Congress to ask the DoD for access, but so far they have been denied.

So it's simple, do you believe Milley when he says has no knowledge that the DoD has more evidence, as has mentioned before the DoD his it's "Project Mogul" evidence for 50 years based on national security alone, the tic tac video is 15 years old and they have just acknowledged it's real.

ie if past history is an indication, Id say the chances are the DoD is sitting on pertinent information and don't to release it for a myriad of reasons one being covering their lying asses

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: jedi_hamster

"the only infinite thing is human stupidity."

Naw , it's ignorance of the way the universe works.

Yes, I agree, you - and I, and everyone else - are extremely ignorant of the laws that govern our very existence.

Yes, we know a lot, as compared to even a hundred years ago, let alone a thousand. What we don't know, is exactly how much we don't know, and I guarantee you that is far far more than what we do know, so much so, that in a hundred years, I imagine we will look back and laugh at our ignorance.

Of course, that would require that mankind be freed up from the chains we are currently bound by via tptb and the stranglehold they currently have on knowledge and the free expression thereof.

originally posted by: putnam6
So it's simple, do you believe Milley when he says has no knowledge that the DoD has more evidence, as has mentioned before the DoD his it's "Project Mogul" evidence for 50 years based on national security alone, the tic tac video is 15 years old and they have just acknowledged it's real.

You're putting words in his mouth. Of course the DOD has more evidence. He didn't say they don't have more evidence, he said he's seen some strange stuff he can't explain but he hasn't seen anything known to be not from Earth or alien.

ie if past history is an indication, Id say the chances are the DoD is sitting on pertinent information and don't to release it for a myriad of reasons one being covering their lying asses

Of course they are, but look at how disappointed some people were when they finally released the information on project mogul. By the way I think part of the legislation passed says now those kind of secrets should be declassified after 40 years unless there's some kind of compelling reason to still keep them secret, so that's standard operating procedure now, keep the secrets for 40 years. I'm sure Milley has plenty of them, but if he says project Mogul wasn't alien, do people believe him? It sure doesn't look alien to me.

a reply to: ArMaP

And in a court of law, it wouldn't be allowed ---its hearsay.

originally posted by: putnam6
Do you mean like the Bible?

The Bible, as far as I understand it, has direct testimonies, undirect testimonies and texts with an undefined source.

originally posted by: putnam6
If you are gonna speak with such surety, then that would mean 4 years ago Grusch started investigating all of the stories just for the right time to pop it on the world and hardly anybody gives a chit.

Thanks for responding like you did. Some users would just say “that’s a crazy idea, it couldn’t happen. You’re obviously a nutcase.” But, you didn’t do that and asked me for further information rather than just dismissing me. I thank you for that and I’ll try to provide the reasons why I feel the way I do. As to what you said in your first line, I don’t understand where you got that from, but if somebody was working on their master plan, wouldn’t they know in what order they wanted their plan to unfold? That could be why Grusch started when he did. And people can be used to further a plan without even being aware that they’re being used in that manner.

originally posted by: putnam6
If not map out the 5 W’s of your personal smoke and mirrors hypothesis completely open to the theory BTW but the devil is in the details.

I think you’ve answered your own question. The devil is in the details. Now to respond to the “5 Ws” you asked for. For those who don’t know what what that means, it stands for “Who, What, Where, When and Why.” The old newpaper reporter’s axiom. I’ll admit, this isn’t all my own original theory, but it goes as follows:

Who?
As I mentioned above, the ancient Sumerians referred to them as “gods from the sky.” The Bible refers to them as the “Nephilim.” They are led by Satan and are the 1/3 of the fallen angels. But - there could be more of them that were created by Satan for his use because he knows about DNA and has the knowledge to use it for his goals. There is proof of this in the Bible when God commaned the archangel Michael to hide the dead body of Moses so that Satan couldn’t get it. For what purpose could anybody use a dead body? This clue from the Bible can be found in Jude 1:9.

What:
Who’s plan is this? It’s Satan’s plan and he’s been working on it ever since he rebelled from God in Heaven. Satan thinks he can defeat God and will try to do so in the final battle at Armageddon. Since Jesus came to earth and gave his message, God has introduced the Holy Spirit to work on earth. But as to the rest of earth, God has allowed Satan free reign to do his plan in his own season. As the Bible states, it is Satan who is in control of the Earth right now until Jesus makes his second coming. (He should have just read the back of the book to find out how it comes out.)

Where?
Satan rebelled from God and left heaven. Where did he go? To where humanity was - earth. He’s been here a long time. Lots of Bible scholars think that Genesis Chapter 1 lasts for six days. Lots of other Bible scholars think that it lasted much longer than that. When God created man to have dominion over earth on the sixth day, that’s exactly what these men did. Then God rested on the seventh day. But, into the Garden of Eden, God created a man, Adam, to rule over it. It was an area separated from the rest of the world. Adam was never created to have dominion over the rest of the world. That was the job of the men God created in Chapter 1 of Genesis to do.

God did come along later and create a companion for Adam, called Eve. They were both intended to live for perpetuity in the Garden of Eden. (Which we know sin was introduced by Satan there and they were kicked out of the Garden.) As would naturally happen, Adam and Eve started to have children. The first two children in the world was Cain and Able. Cain ended up being jealous of Able and killed him. For Cain’s punishment, God put a mark on him so that anybody that recognized him would know what he had done and not kill him. The only trouble with that was - who exactly was supposed to notice this mark, what people? At this time, there were only three people in the world if you go with the belief that Adam was the first man ever created. But Cain was banished to the land of Nod. Who were these people in the land of Nod? They must have been the men God created in Genesis Chapter 1, who’s goal it was to have dominion over the earth. The Bible also clearly states that Adam and Eve had a third child, named Seth, but he wasn't born until after Cain had taken a wife in the land of Nod. So, these other people couldn’t have been relatives of Adam and Eve, e.g. Cain’s sisters. (Or his mother.)

During this whole time, Satan had been coming to the earth and wreaking his own brand of havoc, as it were, and ended up corrupting the earth so much, God had to bring a flood to wipe out all humanity except for the pure blood line that began with Adam. One of the things Satan was known for before the flood, was abducting women for his experiments. Remember he knows about DNA. The women of this time were commanded to wear veils to cover their faces so Satan and his Nephilim couldn’t tell they were women so as to able to abduct them. Of course Muslims still haven’t realized that the time for wearing veils over women’s faces has passed and there’s no need to do it any longer. Why was Satan abducting women? To facilitate his experiments with DNA to create the perfect soldier for his army at the final battle of Armageddon. That’s why God killed all of these “people” so as to keep the “human” blood line pure.


To be continued:

When?
When has this been taking place? Ever since Satan rebelled and has been working on earth. He was given dominion over the earth after Jesus has ascended back into heaven and he will have dominion over earth until Jesus returns in the second coming. As the Bible states, Satan will be defeated and the earth will know peace for 1000 years. But there will still be sin; just not promoted by Satan.

Why?
Why is this happening? Because Satan really thinks he can defeat God. Why are so many “bad” things happening in the world today? It’s because of Satan. He’s working on many fronts to try and win the battle and is using “death by a thousand cuts” to achieve his goal. That’s why so many disparate things are going on all over the world that don’t seem to be linked to one overall master plan. It is getting ever closer to the “end times.”

Yes, people have predicted his second coming ever since the time of Jesus, two thousand years ago. But, they were wrong. Just because all those people were wrong doesn’t mean Jesus isn’t going to come back someday. What all those people, including His disciples, were misunderstanding was Jesus’ own phrase, “I will come quickly.” He wasn’t saying that he would come back soon, but that when he came back, the process would be sudden and quick.

Here’s why I link it all together with my theory of what’s happening these days:

I think this is part of the reason why we are hearing so much about aliens and UFOs these days. Lots of people think that Satan will try to explain away the rapture, and the disappearance of millions of Christians, by claiming they were abducted by aliens. But for years, governments all around the world have been saying there is no such thing as aliens. Why have they reversed their opinions all of a sudden? The timing is pretty suspicious, especially when we take into account all of the other things that were predicted in the Bible in the book of Revelation that would happen leading up and including the “end times.”

Why are we hearing about 15 minute cities? Why is there talk about social credit scores? Why are financial institutions moving towards digital money and banking, and away from hard, negotiable currency? Why are they trying to do away with energy sources that help us in our everyday lives while moving toward electrical energy that is clearly not sustainable globally? Why are vaccines being introduced to save everybody from pandemics, but seem like the reverse of that goal is what is actually happening? Why are they trying sooo hard to get everybody to use trackable mobile phones to do everything so that they won’t need any actual cash? I think it’s because we are being steered in a direction that lines up with what the end times would be like as mentioned in the Bible where the conditions exist for a single leader assume position to take power and control a total one world government. Oddly enough, the Bible mentions this as the stated goal of Satan.

Coincidence? I don’t think so. I’m sure I’ve forgotten some things, so please, if you have any further questions, ask and I’ll try to answer them.


To be continued:

Double post.

originally posted by: putnam6
Is it just because the DoD enjoys the freedom to develop technology beyond the purveyance of Congressional oversight?

Did the DoD do this because certain members of Congress have questionable ties to China?

I don’t know the answer to those questions, but it would seem to tie in with Satan’s overall plans to allow several different things happening at once to achieve his final goal. Such as allowing man to be able to experiment with his own millenia-old technology. How could it hurt him any or deter his plans?

The Bible states that the whore Babylon will fall in an hour. One literal hour. Many Bible scholars have pointed out that Babylon is a description of Amerca, that Revelation Chapter 18 is talking about America. (They have also pointed out the chapter 18 appears to be out of order with the rest of the book of Revelation. So, Babylon/America could fall and most likely will before the seven-year period knowns as the Tribulation.) Well, what is stopping a one-world government from taking over right now? America is the last bastion of freedom, and as such, will have to be removed before the rest of Satan's plans can move forward.

Can you tell I was a PK?

originally posted by: Gothmog

"a reply to: ARM1986
In truth they could be teleported, or whatever they would call it."

Sure.
Reduced to information , encapsulated in cold plasma.....
One thing wrong with that though .
Nothing to reassemble with , or even how to reassemble .
Science Fiction.

So, you're keeping information from the world? How do you know there is "nothing to reassemble with," or that there even needs to be something to reassemble with? God used "teleportation" three times in the Bible. I don't remember reading about a "reassembler," though.

originally posted by: spaceflyr
Hi Everyone,

I pretty much visit ATS to see the latest ideas and theories on the UAP issue almost daily.
To say I’m fascinated by the subject is definitely an understatement.
I see three ideas that seem to come to the forefront;
One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

Maybe the last thing I’ve seen, demon’s trying to pollute the genetics once again of the human race.

Just curious of anyone’s thoughts or opinions on these or alternative theories.

They could be all the above ! because knowbody has proven anything concrete as of yet, so who knows ?

All the best

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind
Can you tell I was a PK?

What's a "PK"?

a reply to: malte85

Probably sage advice to witnesses since its unlikely you could share with others anyways.
I remember spotting a testing area set up by aliens decades ago so I took some friends and asked them what they perceived.
I'm sure the area was designed with the idea there would be universal responses based on ability to recognize mathematical symmetry.

Appeared self grading, I remember muttered to myself 29, oh wait they are looking for an algebra expression.
Literally happens in cognitive milliseconds, I turned around and there were blank faces staring at me.
Insane, and then comes the ghost in the forest psychosis....

So I scribbled out an expression filling in the least significant numerator and the second least significant numerator.
Wasn't tight enough for the math geek with high math SAT scores and it fell on deaf ears of the more artistic member with high verbal SAT scores.

So there was this inter-dimensional black forest reality that didn't exist in either just the sky or just the deep.
There is hemispherical Parallax that involves more than depth perception but its far from universal.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

What?

We are relatively young and primitive in relation to the Universe and in our very brief time with science technology and engineering we have figured out how to fit the energy of the sun into fat man and little boy.

We just recently sustained nuclear fusion reactions.

Give us 1000 years at this rate, Im sure nothing is beyond reason.

We have already determined instellar travel is mathematically possible gia wormholes or waro drives. Weve already imagined it. We have a pretty good knack for making our dreams come true.

Which kind of makes sense given the outcomes of the double slit experiment and the quantum eraser.

That's my biggest beed btw with SOME renowned astro physicists. They argue that their #1 reason for disbelieving ETs could ever visit us is the astronomical distances. They never for a second give creedence to warp drives or worm holes.. that their theoretical physicists champion in their own papers.

Its very frustrating

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: putnam6
So because people have lied in the past means Grusch, Graves, and Fravor are lying now?

Fravor and Graves said they saw things they didn't understand, and Graves didn't even see anything with his own eyes, just with his sensors.

Grusch wouldn't be the one lying, but the people who are telling him stories might be exaggerating. It's easier to get people to believe lies if there's at least some element of truth to the lie. There is indeed a story circulating about a Mussolini UFO which Grusch apparently believes, but in that example I suspect the story itself is a hoax. But Grusch wouldn't be lying when he says someone told him that story, I'm sure they did. The story itself is probably false though.

Likewise, I suspect Grusch is telling the truth that he's been told about a secret crash retreival program. But when it comes to what's been retreived, well we know claims have circulated for years that so-called "Arts Parts" that Tom Delonge paid $35,000 for are allegedly from a crashed alien space ship, but the layering suggests it might just be industrial slag. And there could easily be similar examples within classified crash retreival files where some claim it's alien and told that to Grusch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's alien any more than Arts parts are alien.

40 people?

Grusch has 40+ people, all clearanced and credentialed giving him the same story. You think 40 people are misleading him and exaggerating? Seriously?