At What Point Do We Decide?

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Said the primitive natives when they saw the modern airplanes streaking over their tiny islan skies.

Seriously... are you incapable of understanding just how little we know about the universe - including the laws that govern our existence?

If there is anything that I am certain of, it is that what we know and what is possible today, is not even remotely close to what we will know and what will be possible 50 years from now.

Science - Friction

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Itherael

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Whose to say they are craft all? What if they are apertures that break into our dimension? That could explain why they appear to break the laws of known physics.

Still requires infinite energy .

the only infinite thing is human stupidity.

Naw , it's ignorance of the way the universe works.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Itherael

Not sure of your scientific basis to say they require "infinite" energy,

E=MC^2

Haha, I would love to hear you explain how special relatively should be considered to this topic. Please.


In before you say, look it up yourself.

Like I said before, I dont think we can only apply our current understanding to this problem because there is a probably if we are being visited from somewhere other than the earth, anywhere, including other dimensions, it will involve concepts far beyond our understand.

a reply to: gortex

They wouldn't have to , they would use a mothership to get here and smaller ships to explore planets.

The mothership would still require near infinite energy .
Mass Effect was a Sc-Fi action rpg.
Element 0 does not exist.
When it does , then we can talk .

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Itherael

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Whose to say they are craft all? What if they are apertures that break into our dimension? That could explain why they appear to break the laws of known physics.

Still requires infinite energy .

From our understanding which is to say, we don't...

Really ?
In which respect ?

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Itherael

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Whose to say they are craft all? What if they are apertures that break into our dimension? That could explain why they appear to break the laws of known physics.

Still requires infinite energy .

That all depends on what the nature of the universe actually is. It might not require much energy at all. Or any.

The inter dimensional thing is, I think, just a mistake. The craft can materialise out of thin air apparently, and this is taken as coming from another dimension. In truth they could be teleported, or whatever they would call it. Quantum travel are some such. It would appear as though they were inter dimensional.

There are many question which, from our current knowledge of physics, suggest that these things must come from closer to home, if at all. Of course we might have physics very wrong. One thing is for sure, we’re about to find out.

a reply to: ARM1986

In truth they could be teleported, or whatever they would call it.

Sure.
Reduced to information , encapsulated in cold plasma.....
One thing wrong with that though .
Nothing to reassemble with , or even how to reassemble .
Science Fiction .

a reply to: ARM1986



Exactly....

The cosmos is very complicated...wasn't it Sagan who said....“We must understand the Cosmos as it is and not confuse how it is with how we wish it to be.”

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: ARM1986

In truth they could be teleported, or whatever they would call it.

Sure.
Reduced to information , encapsulated in cold plasma.....
One thing wrong with that though .
Nothing to reassemble with , or even how to reassemble .
Science Fiction .

Your thinking is very human, very rigid. Possibly correct, but also possibly not. Are you privy to the science of an advanced race? I totally get what you’re saying, but we may be dealing with things that, to is, appear like magic.

originally posted by: Techno92LFC
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Why does inter dimensional sound like nonsense from a science perspective? That’s pretty close minded to say isn’t it?

I think the problem is proof. I have no problem philosophically with that view but were talking about physical proof, not metaphysical or philosophical ideas.

originally posted by: introufo

originally posted by: Techno92LFC
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Why does inter dimensional sound like nonsense from a science perspective? That’s pretty close minded to say isn’t it?

I think the problem is proof. I have no problem philosophically with that view but were talking about physical proof, not metaphysical or philosophical ideas.

The problem with proof is...ideology, religion, dogma, etc, will not allow them to accept it, or perhaps they do not yet have the ability (or capability or capacity) to understand it.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: putnam6
It's fairly in-depth, 4 years and 40 different witnesses and they all were lying to Grusch? that in itself would suggest a disinformation campaign. Why would the DoD do this to an investigator, who by all accounts has impeccable character and scruples?

Why did Richard Doty lie to Paul Bennewicz? Why were we all lied to in project Serpo? Why is the US and the UK training agents on how to spread false information (this was reveled in the Snowden leaks)?

A spook’s guide to the psychology of deception

You really haven't realized any of this yet? Or if you have, why would you find it so implausible? We are lied to every day about many things. I'm not saying Grusch is lying, there really is a story about a Mussolini related UFO circulating, which he has apparently heard and believes. But that story is not very believable, and if you have any experience researching UFOs, hopefully you have realized that lots of the circulating stories have problems. That you don't think the US government would consider using these stories to their advantage if they saw an advantage seems rather naive. The department of defense might not be as active as the intelligence community, the latter being where Elizondo and Grusch gained experience. But even the defense department works on projects to fool the enemy with deception, like the ability to make confusing swarms of non-existent aircraft appear on their radar when situations call for that.

The Navy’s Secretive And Revolutionary Program To Project False Fleets From Drone Swarms

After a period of Glasnost beginning in the '90s the US is back to sort of a cold war state with Russia and maybe even China, and in war, cold or hot, deception is a strategy. Actually the war with Russia isn't even cold, it's a proxy war. If the US wants Russia and China to believe the propaganda, maybe they figure that will be easier if they can get their own citizens to believe it first, and these congressional hearings might seem to give the claims some kind of legitimacy (in spite of not having any legitimate evidence available so far). So if Russia and China come to believe that tue US has secret advanced technology that they reverse engineered from alien craft, what effect would that have on Russia and China? Whether it's actually true or not is a separate issue, but it may have a similar effect either way, so there's one possible motive for deception but not the only one.

So because people have lied in the past means Grusch, Graves, and Fravor are lying now?

Besides AGAIN if he is lying then he has convinced Congress to investigate and/or Congress is also lying and covering up.

As well as if he is lying then let him release all the videos and evidence he supposedly has. With the sensitive areas redacted?


Again the now-acknowledged UAP tic tac video, the one they wanted to cover up is now 15 years old. Why?


nymag.com...

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: spaceflyr
we are no longer a multi-domain species at “the top, the apex”.

Personally, I’ve come to terms with that.

Imo.

👽

Perhaps that's the point of this whole exercise? Perhaps those that say that Hollywood pumped out Evil Alien movies to prepare us for something were right. Maybe this is the next level of that. Slow Disclosure.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: ARM1986

In truth they could be teleported, or whatever they would call it.

Sure.
Reduced to information , encapsulated in cold plasma.....
One thing wrong with that though .
Nothing to reassemble with , or even how to reassemble .
Science Fiction .

Surely, by whatever means that were used to "reduce to information"....


Those "means" themselves, whatever they are, are Also just another "packet" of information; assembled from whatever makes up matter at their end of the universe, to enable transmissions to our end of the universe.


The "stuff" that makes up matter (which is assembled into "things) "over there" must work the same way it works over here....


We're all in This dimension together, right?

originally posted by: spaceflyr
Hi Everyone,

I pretty much visit ATS to see the latest ideas and theories on the UAP issue almost daily.
To say I’m fascinated by the subject is definitely an understatement.
I see three ideas that seem to come to the forefront;
One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

Maybe the last thing I’ve seen, demon’s trying to pollute the genetics once again of the human race.

Just curious of anyone’s thoughts or opinions on these or alternative theories.

You’ve already decided, so why make this thread?

originally posted by: spaceflyr
Hi Everyone,

I pretty much visit ATS to see the latest ideas and theories on the UAP issue almost daily.
To say I’m fascinated by the subject is definitely an understatement.
I see three ideas that seem to come to the forefront;
One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

Maybe the last thing I’ve seen, demon’s trying to pollute the genetics once again of the human race.

Just curious of anyone’s thoughts or opinions on these or alternative theories.

They don’t exist outside of man’s imagination. Aliens/UFOs are just a cover for terrestrial top secret crafts .
Why would any advanced being who has figured out deep space travel have a ship or craft that can be seen or tracked by a bunch human apes on earth ?
If aliens are real & visit earth , no one has seen or heard them ever .
Remember that in 1920 an SR71 seen in the skies would defy known physics of that day .
The technology to fold or travel light years would be so advanced that it would be invisible to us imo.
Just because we can’t comprehend something today doesn’t mean that it won’t be common technology 50 years from now . Everything mankind has done is impossible until it happens.
Aliens are real , but they don’t know we exist just as we don’t know about them , because of distances within the known universe as of now .

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Itherael

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Whose to say they are craft all? What if they are apertures that break into our dimension? That could explain why they appear to break the laws of known physics.

Still requires infinite energy .

From our understanding which is to say, we don't...

Really ?
In which respect ?

We can only speak about Physics and Technology as we understand it, from a human perspective, we know there are places, such as the even horizon of Black Holes, where the laws of Physics and General Relativity break down.

We can't possibly know the thought processes, motivations nor intentions of whatever or whoever is behind these UAP's.

All we are doing is making stabs in the dark. We need way more info before we can even begin to work out what's going on.

a reply to: psychotrail

From our limited perspective of the universe, that thinking is understandable. But we are pretty clueless to the majority of existence, who knows what a civilisation that evolved millennia before ourselves could have achieved while we were taking our first steps out of the ocean?

originally posted by: djz3ro
a reply to: psychotrail

From our limited perspective of the universe, that thinking is understandable. But we are pretty clueless to the majority of existence, who knows what a civilisation that evolved millennia before ourselves could have achieved while we were taking our first steps out of the ocean?

I agree with your thoughts, but an advanced civilisation from off planet would have to be from light years away , because if tic tacs are visible & trackable here on earth then they had to have flew through space to get here & not many things enter our solar system without sime pesky scientists knowing about it .
So if these tic tacs are from off planet, then they myst have extremely advanced propulsion systems , can travel at the speed of light or a multi dimensional
Either bit of technology would present technology far more advanced than our crude radar can track or be seen with the naked eye ?
Tic tac ufos are terrestrial & not alien at all .
Tic tacs belong to the US Navy ,

a reply to: ArMaP

I know but it's an example that not everything that exists in the Solar System is here on Earth.