Centers For Disease Control Issues Guidance On Men Properly Breastfeeding Babies.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: quintessentone

Exactly, so why is everyone up in arms what others do with their bodies? It really is nobody's business.

"Everyone" isn't concerned with what others do with their bodies. In regards to this specific situation, most people are concerned about the babies. Specifically, the adverse effects of male lactation as a primary source of nourishment and sustenance for an infant who literally cannot express their own will. The concern is for what others are doing to babies' bodies.
---------------------------

As usual with anything trans, more studies need to be done, but what I have found seems to point to the fact that the infant is fed supplementally as well as with the transwoman's breast milk, which it appears takes a while to establish. There was no concern as to nutritional value to the transwoman's milk for the infant.

Although there have been many successes in lactation induction in nonpuerperal parents, most require some degree of supplementation in order to provide adequate nutrition to the infant, especially early on while milk production is being
established.

watermark.silverchair.com... qGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMTJlOEiKPQ3oky6_WAgEQgIICeR3JwGgd4RKeEMzWJ3PthlZRiYnhySGlf6oPIAe9b8QLVOmuo6y25T6OzQVH4X_fUsAnvqJGd2qPEK_auJQZ6gzE9zGD 6xATW8n7M1fQw5QN1C3CkBwV9qZ2PcEZ7I4ar6Syya2E7I6jyD64dgVRbAoJulIJLCg-U_DUle7AO_nhUDif7GqCkPSOsfsVTniKkxQdJ2XxMQewln-NVHYatP7qE9BavfGkCzwb6xpN3LKGH3azSK I3rddMjv2xFIUKWUyUSUSRK1r3lNvw2kWqeQeEmiR1BuOOgZsJscwtHMa33ACDTO76K_x84pnbF4joThmGX9m1ty0eLd5TfscU_3HovlbfJb0Ss1ZKcFokB8x5iFvyuEJO8ZaTvmjGu2xuiXic8Row 9oyIuCqy20_4ZoafW8lqUKnmNhnnCckXEJpMwISgfnzruIn8VF6KwfR5SkLVIKNQBZVnD94eZfvlorbDQ2LFzYArHxCin5A-CZCl48elVrGkmZkkdhST9jbr-LeZ2xL0YtVRtylJLGVf2MlY5tYDIA 8tkglsei0p4KvVOGH6jZjMUY5e-lrpNprXxyqx6Cmw8qgztRBJKxwvZBP3wrGjiN6ychiY_006tuUdtcRtL1UZ9yy2EgM_dQtqZyLtdce9emW7p4Ccn79P9A2hpZ22yNWtbZh_bjDeVPKNb5OswHTW PqbpQSnrpmZUaiHRX2EoFfJvivo66wkUP50laMCofRk0GEH74LmFtDrZNel7GIPkfziCGBoSRMepxKuvZafx8o7_eqIOAOolE7dT2ff5VPkcZh7X1zg4jddlc3M-t3tIN_S-QUKGFg719iYC54NFd4 qUCQ


----------------------------------------------------

Likewise, most people are concerned about the impact of trans demands on other people, particularly women, from sports to single-sex spaces. And to a lesser extent, many people are concerned about the impact of the trans agenda on transgender persons themselves -- from their physical health to their mental health and their emotional health.
----------------------------------------------------

With the newer studies, it appears that no matter what age males start hormone therapy they will still keep their male advantages, so I'm with all of you with competing in women's sports because 'the science'. As for sex-single spaces, again, those spaces are changing to accommodate everyone. Society moves slowly.

--------------------------------------------------------

What scares most/many people is the lack of concern or respect by the trans activists for others, for the short-term and long-term impact on others, for the safety of others, for the rights of others.

-------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I guess they are giving it back just as good as they get.

a reply to: AlienBorg

I don't think men should be taking hormones to pretend they are women or pretend they breastfeed their infants.

I agree. But if we're going to presume to criminalize another person's free will and autonomy, then we need damn good Constitutional reasons for it, and any/all laws scrupulously worded and enforced. I would also suggest that we already have laws on the books that address the most problematic demands of the Trans community. For example, we have laws against false identities, including fraud. It seems to me that those laws could be re-purposed in various ways to preclude anyone from pretending to be someone they are not. If someone wants to embrace opposite-sex stereotypes, okay. But they cannot knowingly and wilfully misrepresent or mis-identify themselves (including their sex). We already have laws that protect the well-being of infants and children including nutrition and nourishment, so no infant should be solely and exclusively "chestfed" with drug-laden male lactation.

Generally speaking, if it's illegal for others, then it's illegal for transgender persons. If it's legal for everyone, then it's legal for transgender persons.

Women can breastfeed without any problems and if they have any issues then medicine could help them.

And that would be the proper use of medicines: To correct or alleviate a health issue. Breastfeeding is a natural and healthy function of the female body. It is not a natural and healthy function of the male body.

Damn, there’s a lot of stubborn and dumb here, some of which I will just to be nice and give the benefit of the doubt attributed to simple ignorance i.e. the lack of information about and experience with the subject you are raging on about. Some of you don’t even understand the terminology so let me try to help.

“Chestfeeding” – an inclusive and PC term used for transgender men (natal females). Gender dysphoric FtM transgender people generally loathe their breasts and may use binders to conceal them or have male chest reconstruction commonly referred to “top surgery” to remove them.

There are various techniques for performing male chest reconstruction depending on the surgeon and the size of the breasts. Check Google for the types and images. Most commonly during removal of the breast tissue, the nipple is removed, reshaped and sewn back on in a more male location on making it hard for me to understand how they could even “chestfeed” if they wanted to but I am not a doctor. Complications include scarring and nipple necrosis.

“Breastfeeding” – is a term used for natal females and transgender women who, you know, have breasts. Transgender women undergoing cross-sex hormone treatment and testosterone suppression experience similar breast development to natal females during puberty including changes to the nipple and areola. Without augmentation, it is common to develop at least a “B” cup size but this is partially dependent on the age cross-sex HRT is initiated and familial/hereditary factors. Transgender women's naturally developed breasts are of the same composition and structure as natal females.

“Top surgery” for MtF transgender women is a euphemism that means breast augmentation. BA is the most common cosmetic surgery in the U.S. with over 365,000 performed annually on natal females alone so that is one “gender affirming” surgery no one complains about even when often performed on teenagers. There is plenty of information out there on how breast augmentation can effect lactation. There are tons of online lactation groups and organizations if anybody is interested in actually looking things up learning more.(doubtful)

I have seen other studies on the safety and nutritional content of transgender women's breast milk but can find only one at the moment that I linked previously on page 2 of this thread that states:

These findings provide reassurance about the adequacy of nutrition from human milk produced by non-gestational transgender female and nonbinary parents on estrogen-based, gender-affirming hormone therapy".

Keep in mind induced lactation is widely used for natal females using the same chemical cocktail less commonly (rarely) used in transgender women so where are all the worries, concerns and complaints about that?



Now to appease the gender crits, there may be several different and distinct factors motivating a transgender woman’s desire to breastfeed. First and foremost would be the desire of any mother with a newborn be that through natural birth, adoption, surrogacy etc, to provide life giving nourishment and experience maternal bonding the act provides.

However, adherents to Blanchard’s highly debatable and controversial two-typology of androphilic and gynephilic transgender identities are likely not to attribute this normal and natural desire to breastfeed to those of (auto)gynephilic nature where it is more likely associated with behavioral, physiologic and anatomic autogynephilia or so the theory says. In these cases, motivations are not so clear and likely darker and somewhat less than organic.

a reply to: Boadicea

The facts are that male lactation is real, and there are medical conditions that induce this oddity, outside of the transgender movement. I believe, based on the OPs title of this thread “Centers For Disease Control Issues Guidance On Men Properly Breastfeeding Babies”, that Foxnews has intentionally misled individuals in an effort to cause strife between two groups of people. Objectively reading the CDC link provided, one could use deductive reasoning and establish that they are talking about biological females. However, the same goes for the CDC, which is intentionally ambiguous with its use of the word transgender parents. Both are pandering to their consumer base, and I believe these tactics employed by both entities are destructive and unnecessary.

a reply to: carewemust

Mothers breastfeed their children, their offspring for a variety of reasons. None of which I'll bother going into because none of you are nurses or doctors.

The CDC is nothing more than the medical wing of leftist ideology.

Mothers have been breastfeeding their children since we were primates.

Do we really need a government agency TELLING us how to do something that has been happening for 100's of thousands of years?

And we actually have people ARGUING about it!!!

When will there be government guidance on blinking? Or farting? Or walking?

*shakes head and walks away*

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: AlienBorg

I don't think men should be taking hormones to pretend they are women or pretend they breastfeed their infants.

I agree. But if we're going to presume to criminalize another person's free will and autonomy, then we need damn good Constitutional reasons for it, and any/all laws scrupulously worded and enforced. I would also suggest that we already have laws on the books that address the most problematic demands of the Trans community. For example, we have laws against false identities, including fraud. It seems to me that those laws could be re-purposed in various ways to preclude anyone from pretending to be someone they are not. If someone wants to embrace opposite-sex stereotypes, okay. But they cannot knowingly and wilfully misrepresent or mis-identify themselves (including their sex). We already have laws that protect the well-being of infants and children including nutrition and nourishment, so no infant should be solely and exclusively "chestfed" with drug-laden male lactation.

Generally speaking, if it's illegal for others, then it's illegal for transgender persons. If it's legal for everyone, then it's legal for transgender persons.

Women can breastfeed without any problems and if they have any issues then medicine could help them.

And that would be the proper use of medicines: To correct or alleviate a health issue. Breastfeeding is a natural and healthy function of the female body. It is not a natural and healthy function of the male body.

Outlaw but not criminalise.

You can still break the law and not receive a 30 year jail sentence.

I am sure some laws specifically target medical procedures that could be both unethical and frankly speaking very dangerous. How many states have restricted or banned gender affirmation surgeries and healthcare for minors?!

You can have similar laws for adults. Society needs to balance the risks and benefits and imo the risks far outweigh any benefits.

originally posted by: AdifferentOpinion
Damn, there’s a lot of stubborn and dumb here, some of which I will just to be nice and give the benefit of the doubt attributed to simple ignorance i.e. the lack of information about and experience with the subject you are raging on about. Some of you don’t even understand the terminology so let me try to help.

“Chestfeeding” – an inclusive and PC term used for transgender men (natal females). Gender dysphoric FtM transgender people generally loathe their breasts and may use binders to conceal them or have male chest reconstruction commonly referred to “top surgery” to remove them.

There are various techniques for performing male chest reconstruction depending on the surgeon and the size of the breasts. Check Google for the types and images. Most commonly during removal of the breast tissue, the nipple is removed, reshaped and sewn back on in a more male location on making it hard for me to understand how they could even “chestfeed” if they wanted to but I am not a doctor. Complications include scarring and nipple necrosis.

“Breastfeeding” – is a term used for natal females and transgender women who, you know, have breasts. Transgender women undergoing cross-sex hormone treatment and testosterone suppression experience similar breast development to natal females during puberty including changes to the nipple and areola. Without augmentation, it is common to develop at least a “B” cup size but this is partially dependent on the age cross-sex HRT is initiated and familial/hereditary factors. Transgender women's naturally developed breasts are of the same composition and structure as natal females.

“Top surgery” for MtF transgender women is a euphemism that means breast augmentation. BA is the most common cosmetic surgery in the U.S. with over 365,000 performed annually on natal females alone so that is one “gender affirming” surgery no one complains about even when often performed on teenagers. There is plenty of information out there on how breast augmentation can effect lactation. There are tons of online lactation groups and organizations if anybody is interested in actually looking things up learning more.(doubtful)

I have seen other studies on the safety and nutritional content of transgender women's breast milk but can find only one at the moment that I linked previously on page 2 of this thread that states:

These findings provide reassurance about the adequacy of nutrition from human milk produced by non-gestational transgender female and nonbinary parents on estrogen-based, gender-affirming hormone therapy".

Keep in mind induced lactation is widely used for natal females using the same chemical cocktail less commonly (rarely) used in transgender women so where are all the worries, concerns and complaints about that?

 

Now to appease the gender crits, there may be several different and distinct factors motivating a transgender woman’s desire to breastfeed. First and foremost would be the desire of any mother with a newborn be that through natural birth, adoption, surrogacy etc, to provide life giving nourishment and experience maternal bonding the act provides.

However, adherents to Blanchard’s highly debatable and controversial two-typology of androphilic and gynephilic transgender identities are likely not to attribute this normal and natural desire to breastfeed to those of (auto)gynephilic nature where it is more likely associated with behavioral, physiologic and anatomic autogynephilia or so the theory says. In these cases, motivations are not so clear and likely darker and somewhat less than organic.

Inclusive?!

Rhetoric you only find as part of the gender ideology.

originally posted by: AdifferentOpinion
Damn, there’s a lot of stubborn and dumb here, some of which I will just to be nice and give the benefit of the doubt attributed to simple ignorance i.e. the lack of information about and experience with the subject you are raging on about. Some of you don’t even understand the terminology so let me try to help.

“Chestfeeding” – an inclusive and PC term used for transgender men (natal females). Gender dysphoric FtM transgender people generally loathe their breasts and may use binders to conceal them or have male chest reconstruction commonly referred to “top surgery” to remove them.

There are various techniques for performing male chest reconstruction depending on the surgeon and the size of the breasts. Check Google for the types and images. Most commonly during removal of the breast tissue, the nipple is removed, reshaped and sewn back on in a more male location on making it hard for me to understand how they could even “chestfeed” if they wanted to but I am not a doctor. Complications include scarring and nipple necrosis.

“Breastfeeding” – is a term used for natal females and transgender women who, you know, have breasts. Transgender women undergoing cross-sex hormone treatment and testosterone suppression experience similar breast development to natal females during puberty including changes to the nipple and areola. Without augmentation, it is common to develop at least a “B” cup size but this is partially dependent on the age cross-sex HRT is initiated and familial/hereditary factors. Transgender women's naturally developed breasts are of the same composition and structure as natal females.

“Top surgery” for MtF transgender women is a euphemism that means breast augmentation. BA is the most common cosmetic surgery in the U.S. with over 365,000 performed annually on natal females alone so that is one “gender affirming” surgery no one complains about even when often performed on teenagers. There is plenty of information out there on how breast augmentation can effect lactation. There are tons of online lactation groups and organizations if anybody is interested in actually looking things up learning more.(doubtful)

I have seen other studies on the safety and nutritional content of transgender women's breast milk but can find only one at the moment that I linked previously on page 2 of this thread that states:

These findings provide reassurance about the adequacy of nutrition from human milk produced by non-gestational transgender female and nonbinary parents on estrogen-based, gender-affirming hormone therapy".

Keep in mind induced lactation is widely used for natal females using the same chemical cocktail less commonly (rarely) used in transgender women so where are all the worries, concerns and complaints about that?

 

Now to appease the gender crits, there may be several different and distinct factors motivating a transgender woman’s desire to breastfeed. First and foremost would be the desire of any mother with a newborn be that through natural birth, adoption, surrogacy etc, to provide life giving nourishment and experience maternal bonding the act provides.

However, adherents to Blanchard’s highly debatable and controversial two-typology of androphilic and gynephilic transgender identities are likely not to attribute this normal and natural desire to breastfeed to those of (auto)gynephilic nature where it is more likely associated with behavioral, physiologic and anatomic autogynephilia or so the theory says. In these cases, motivations are not so clear and likely darker and somewhat less than organic.

Gender dysphoria?

Sex-dysphoria is the right term. People don't feel well with their biological sex and not with a random term being given a completely different meaning for the purpose of the gender ideology.

a reply to: quintessentone

With the newer studies, it appears that no matter what age males start hormone therapy they will still keep their male advantages, so I'm with all of you with competing in women's sports because 'the science'.

Agreed.

As for sex-single spaces, again, those spaces are changing to accommodate everyone. Society moves slowly.

There I disagree. Men forcing their way into women's single-sex spaces is not to "accommodate everyone." It is pandering and catering to a very small and specific group of men.

In fact and in deed, it alienates and excludes many women for many reasons. It also completely negates the safeguarding aspects.

Yeah, I guess they are giving it back just as good as they get.

Nope. Not at all. Not even close. Not even comparable.

Women asked nothing of trans people. Women demanded nothing of trans people. In fact, many women were quite happy to support and advocate for trans people.

Until trans people, men identifying as trans to be specific, started making demands upon women, often unreasonable demands, sometimes dangerous demands, and refused to take "no" for an answer.

Very big difference.

a reply to: Boadicea

Well, it's early days and I know that many public places are accommodating everyone's privacy needs, so that's in the pipeline.

I didn't say it was women vs transwomen, I said they give back as good as they get, and from what I've been reading they have a right to advocate for themselves, just as anyone else. But the animosity and hate they experience, so they say, is spreading so fast that they need to step up even more.

www.aclu.org...

originally posted by: MrEnergy
a reply to: Boadicea

The facts are that male lactation is real, and there are medical conditions that induce this oddity, outside of the transgender movement.

Already acknowledged.

I believe, based on the OPs title of this thread “Centers For Disease Control Issues Guidance On Men Properly Breastfeeding Babies”, that Foxnews has intentionally misled individuals in an effort to cause strife between two groups of people.

I'm more inclined to think that Fox is calling the CDC's bluff by presuming the CDC is including transgender males, leaving it up to the CDC to either correct Fox, admit that is what they meant, or play deaf, dumb and blind. I'm leaning towards the CDC playing deaf, dumb and blind.

Only the CDC can clarify exactly what they meant; and unless and until the CDC does so, we can only guess.

Objectively reading the CDC link provided, one could use deductive reasoning and establish that they are talking about biological females.

One could use deductive reasoning... inductive reasoning... or reductive reasoning.... but all would be guesses.

The CDC is well aware of the verbiage they used. The CDC is well aware that "transgender parents" includes males. They chose not to do so. They chose to include males. If we were talking about lay people, it would be reasonable to consider that they simply mispoke. But we are not talking about lay people. We are talking about the pre-eminent health center in the nation. They know what they said... and what they did not.

However, the same goes for the CDC, which is intentionally ambiguous with its use of the word transgender parents. Both are pandering to their consumer base...

I wouldn't call the transgender population their "consumer base". The CDC is funded by the people for the people. ALL the people.

...and I believe these tactics employed by both entities are destructive and unnecessary.

I cannot disagree.

a reply to: carewemust

Sounds exactly like sexual abuse of a minor, since only a female who actually produces milk for an infant should have an infant doing that! Normalizing ped0philia much !?!?? This is sick

a reply to: AlienBorg

Society needs to balance the risks and benefits and imo the risks far outweigh any benefits.

We could try.

But we would first have to draw a big fat red line: At which point is someone's free will and autonomy subject to the approval and consent of government?

Starting with the premise that everyone has an absolute, inalienable natural right to do what for themselves and by themselves, with or without other consenting adults, I have always drawn the line at that point in which others are adversely effected.

In terms of sex-reassignment surgeries, like all cosmetic and medically unnecessary surgeries, there are risks. I would first require complete disclosure of ALL adverse effects, both short and long-term, in order that the patient may make an informed decision. We do not have that now. But I think that's where we should start.

Those who live to regret their choice will provide a valuable living example for the world.

Can't literally make this crap up..!

Hope the manual comes with an a AR-15's feeding bottle..! Sponsored by Kid Rock's DIY quenching your non-human baby's thisrt with Bud Light..!

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Boadicea

Well, it's early days and I know that many public places are accommodating everyone's privacy needs, so that's in the pipeline.

I cannot quantify "many" public places, nor can I qualify "everyone's privacy needs," so I cannot agree. What one person considers competently protecting privacy, another person will not.

I do know that some places are implementing three choices though: Men's, women's, and "other" which can be unisex, disabled, or family oriented. Those are probably the most likely to accommodate everyone to the customer's satisfaction.

I didn't say it was women vs transwomen, I said they give back as good as they get...

Well, whether you said it or not, I did put it in those terms, and I'm not wrong.

...and from what I've been reading they have a right to advocate for themselves, just as anyone else.

Of course they do! And women have a right to advocate for themselves, including when transgender males make unreasonable and unacceptable demands on women.

But the animosity and hate they experience, so they say, is spreading so fast that they need to step up even more.

I have no idea what "need to step up even more" looks like in the real world. What I do know is that any attempt to further force their will on others, make unreasonable and unacceptable demands and refusing to take no for an answer, and otherwise violate the rights and sensibilities of others, will only result in greater animosity and hate. They would do well (for themselves) to take a good long look at exactly what they have done and continue to do that has prompted this animosity and hate. It didn't come from nowhere.

There's a saying about doing the same things over and over but expecting different results...

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: AlienBorg

Society needs to balance the risks and benefits and imo the risks far outweigh any benefits.

We could try.

But we would first have to draw a big fat red line: At which point is someone's free will and autonomy subject to the approval and consent of government?

Starting with the premise that everyone has an absolute, inalienable natural right to do what for themselves and by themselves, with or without other consenting adults, I have always drawn the line at that point in which others are adversely effected.

In terms of sex-reassignment surgeries, like all cosmetic and medically unnecessary surgeries, there are risks. I would first require complete disclosure of ALL adverse effects, both short and long-term, in order that the patient may make an informed decision. We do not have that now. But I think that's where we should start.

Those who live to regret their choice will provide a valuable living example for the world.

The re-assignment surgeries do have cosmetic goals but they're very dangerous both for adults and minors. Treating a mental condition such as gender or better say sex dysphoria with drugs and surgeries is just madness imo.

a reply to: AlienBorg

Personally, I think most cosmetic surgery is madness. Not all, of course. But generally speaking, cosmetic surgery is for vanity not function, and the risks outweigh the rewards.

But not my body, not my choice.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: AlienBorg

Personally, I think most cosmetic surgery is madness. Not all, of course. But generally speaking, cosmetic surgery is for vanity not function, and the risks outweigh the rewards.

But not my body, not my choice.

Most posters on this thread do not believe in that last sentence and you wonder why transgendered people advocate for their rights.

a reply to: AdifferentOpinion

It's not dumb, it's willful ignorance or worse and nobody reads any of the sources. Probably not many here read your post.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: AdifferentOpinion

It's not dumb, it's willful ignorance or worse and nobody reads any of the sources. Probably not many here read your post.

If you say so them it must be.
I am sure your views are based on science and you can make rational arguments like sex isn't binary. It's a great argument, don't get me wrong, but some of use base our arguments in reality, others trying to ignore it.