Professor of Psychiatry: Transgender is a mental disorder that merits treatment

posted by: JumpTheGun76
I bet . . .
that most people who are anti homosexuality
are actually gay or bi

Such Delusions
Are A Mental Illness.
Case In Point

. . . you only wish


_______________

originally posted by: JumpTheGun76

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: whyamIhere
By that logic...

Being gay would also need treatment.

Never thought it could be this difficult.

There is massive difference between sexual orientation and believing you are another gender when in reality you are not.

In terms of being transgender was regarded until recently as a mental disorder. But it changed due to activism.

Homosexuality was also regarded as a mental disorder until 1973 but the American Psychiatric Association changed it. And then it changed gradually to what is accepted today.

Oh, so you are saying that homosexuality is a mental illness! Jesus christ! I bet that most people who are anti homosexuality are actually gay or bi, and they go down this aggressive path because they are angry they feel this way, or trying to hide it.

Not at all. You have misunderstood the text.

Homosexuality was regarded as mental disorder until 1973. This is a fact. But it's no longer regarded as such.

I don't think sexual orientation is related to mental disorders.

This is very different to believing you are something you are not. For example to believe you are the other gender is by definition a false perception and hence a mental issue.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I don't think these two things often coexist.

As I have already stated quite clearly, I know they do. I know because several gay people have told me so, and because my observation of those people and others who are also gay bear out what they say. The one transsexual I know personally was also, quite obviously, ‘born that way’, and behaved all through their adult life as a man rather than the woman they were born as.

Knowing this, I am really not interested in other people’s opinions and conjectures on the subject, so further discussion will get us nowhere. I give you the truth; you may take it or leave it. I am happy to discuss other aspects of the controversy, but this I regard as proved.

You are projecting your own experience and a few examples to argue that homosexuality and transgenderism are somehow related. They are not. Most gay people are ok with themselves and they don't have the false perceptions that they are in the wrong body.

Seriously, this transgender ideology is at odds with reality and common sense.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Annee


Asking again.

But in the meantime, I found this:

In that article McHugh made the following assertions:

1/ The understanding of sexual orientation as an innate, biologically fixed property of human beings — the idea that people are “born that way” — is not supported by scientific evidence.

2/ The hypothesis that gender identity is an innate, fixed property of human beings that is independent of biological sex — that a person might be “a man trapped in a woman’s body” or “a woman trapped in a man’s body” — is not supported by scientific evidence.

Wikipedia

.
I strongly dispute both these statements. I've lived with gay people all my life. They definitely couldn't help being what they are. 'Born that way' described them accurately -- it describes every homosexual person I have known, including -- as it happens -- my first wife.

I only know one trans person. I have known them for at least 35 years. They started off female, always acted male, courted only women (very successfully). Saved up for years and years till they could afford the change. That, too, took a year or two too before it was all done. After a decent interval, they married the woman who'd been their steady for years and lived happily ever after.

So, a happy ending there. But this was a strong-minded thirtysomething person who knew just what they were getting into. Born that way? I'd definitely say so.

I reckon McHugh was talking out of his fundament, or perhaps out his Fundamentalism, on that.

On the biological reality of sex distinctions, though, I am old school. To me, gender is something that applies to nouns, not animals; chromosomes don't lie. But I also accept that epigenetic factors can definitely create a 'spectrum' both physiologically and psychologically, and I think a decent, tolerant society should make room for that.

Live and let live, I say. And don't make political circus out of it.

I just really enjoy how gay people are born that way, they are biologically inclined to find more sexual or emotional satisfaction in their own gender, but gender itself is a social construct and has nothing to do biological inclination.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

I just really enjoy how gay people are born that way, they are biologically inclined to find more sexual or emotional satisfaction in their own gender, but gender itself is a social construct and has nothing to do biological inclination.

Sex is your physical body.

Gender is who your brain tells you you are.

Scientifically prove you are straight.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Annee

Ask a transgender person directly.

I have done so, Annee -- as you could have deduced from the very post you’re replying to.

But if what the ‘transgender person’ says is in contradiction with science, then I want to know why that is, and see if there is some way to reconcile them.

As it happens, I don’t believe it is in contradiction. The assertions of McHugh, quoted above, are not totally false, but they are calculated to deceive. He conveniently neglects to mention that there is no scientific evidence that sexual orientation or ‘gender dysphoria’ are environmentally determined, either. What can be proven scientifically is not only that there are only two sexes, but also that individual human beings within those two categories can differ widely both physically and mentally.

If science cannot help us, then we must -- as you suggest -- apply to less rigorous evidence to help us form our opinions. A foolish person, to whom I shall not deign to reply, seems to think ‘anecdotal evidence’ is somehow illegitimate. You, I am sure, understand that all evidence must be, in some sense, anecdotal. I take it that is the basis of your argument?

First -- I want to say those who choose denial -- can not prove themselves scientifically -- who they are, etc.

It is an excuse to use science as the denial factor. There are many things science can not explain or prove.

But when your science "subject" has a voice and can directly tell you "this is how it is" -- only a fool would claim they don't know what they are talking about (Disclaimer: because sadly needed. Excluding those who are mentally ill vs having a mental disorder -- mental disorder and mental illness are not the same thing).

Fact: some scientists support brain scans show a difference in gender. Because some scientists do not or oppose it -- does not discredit the ones who do.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: whyamIhere
By that logic...

Being gay would also need treatment.

Never thought it could be this difficult.

Uhhh Yes and no .

Gay people are just well Gay ....Being attracted to the same sex is one thing

But Trans people are effectively having an out of Body experience and feel the overwhelming need or " Pressure " to take hormones and dismantle there body.

I would see a slight difference there .

We should also point out that the overwhelming majority of Transsexuals are mentally ill to begin with and somehow end up on the road to transitioning usually hand in hand with some Doctor who assures them it's a good idea . Meaning the Doctor who is supporting there transitioning is actually Reinforcing there delusion when he knows from a medical stand point that the person is indeed mentally ill but society is ignoring this.

Thank you for your reply.

I like learning and I know nothing about being trans.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: whyamIhere
By that logic...

Being gay would also need treatment.

Never thought it could be this difficult.

Uhhh Yes and no .

Gay people are just well Gay ....Being attracted to the same sex is one thing

But Trans people are effectively having an out of Body experience and feel the overwhelming need or " Pressure " to take hormones and dismantle there body.

I would see a slight difference there .

We should also point out that the overwhelming majority of Transsexuals are mentally ill to begin with and somehow end up on the road to transitioning usually hand in hand with some Doctor who assures them it's a good idea . Meaning the Doctor who is supporting there transitioning is actually Reinforcing there delusion when he knows from a medical stand point that the person is indeed mentally ill but society is ignoring this.

Thank you for your reply.

I like learning and I know nothing about being trans.

If you seriously want to learn about trans -- this person is not who you want to learn from.

Try this poster: AdifferentOpinion

a reply to: Annee
There is no "denial". To have "denial" there must be a proven alternative to what is known.
Try to understand....
Just try.
There are no "brain scans" studies showing the trangender females have the same brain scans as women.
All brain scan studies show there are differences in the male and female brain, trans or not.
Men can think they are women. Men can not think like a woman, and vice versa.
I have asked you numerous times to show me these studies you keep chirping about.
Nothing, only "I already posted it" or "I am done".
You did link to one article in nature that was an advertisement for a book. That is all I have seen and I have looked extensively because I am genuinely curious.

Eta:
Oh and I did see two studies you posted on football players and convicts.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee
Try to understand....

Back at you.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee
Try to understand....

Back at you.

Can you explain to me what it is I do not understand and post actual evidence?
Please.

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee
Try to understand....

Back at you.

Can you explain to me what it is I do not understand and post actual evidence?
Please.

NO -- I can't -- because you choose to keep your brain padlocked.

Ya know -- there are actual transgender posters here on ATS.

And you tell them they are wrong. It's almost comical.

There are no individual brain scans that people can look at and say that's a female brain or that's a male brain but there are certain trends that can be observed.

For those interested in doing some reading:

Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain?

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity

A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism

A Study Finds Sex Differences in the Brain. Does It Matter?

UntreatedMtFs and FtMswho have an early onset oftheir gender dysphoria and are sexually oriented to persons of their natal sex show a distinctive brain morphology, reflecting a brain phenotype. These phenotypes are different from those of heterosexual males or females; the differences affect the right hemisphere and cortical structures underlying body perception. The genesis of these phenotypes might be caused by atypical effects of sex hormones ortheirmetabolitesin specific cortical regions ofMtFs and FtMs. These effects of hormones on the cortex suggest the hypothesis that brain differences between homosexual MtFs and FtMs and male and female controls are due to differences in the development of the cortex; this hypothesis would imply that the thinning process undergone by some regions ofthe cortexistimed differently in each phenotype. The review ofthe available data seemsto supporttwo existing hypotheses: (1) a brain-restricted intersexuality in homosexual MtFs and FtMs and (2) Blanchard’s insight on the existence of two brain phenotypes that differentiate‘‘homosexual’’and‘‘nonhomosexual’’MtFs. The studies on the effects of cross-sex hormone treatment on the brain of MtFs and FtMs consisteny indicate dramatic effects onthe gray and white matter after shortto medium-term treatments butthelong-term effects onthe brain require evaluation. Finally, the postmortem studies should be
interpreted in light of these in vivo findings as well as of theirunderlying mechanism

The thing is, there are a lot issues with the science done in this area as few researchers have taken every factor into consideration. Science has shown differences in some areas the brain between homosexuals and heterosexuals and for the most part, the transgender brain falls somewhere in the middle but there are problems that cloud most research in this area such as failing to note sexual orientation among other things plus ideological biases.

Men can think they are women. Men can not think like a woman

How exactly does a woman think? Do all women think the same way? I find this notion rather curious!

originally posted by: AdifferentOpinion
There are no individual brain scans that people can look at and say that's a female brain or that's a male brain but there are certain trends that can be observed.

I personally understand that it's not black and white -- that it's far more complicated. Just tryin' to keep a simple concept.

Making a human is a mix of a lot of "stuff" -- that no science/scientist -- to date -- has all the answers to -- if any.

As I say: "You throw all the ingredients in a big pot and stir" -- you're gonna get every variation there is.

Thanks for your informed post.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee
Try to understand....

Back at you.

Can you explain to me what it is I do not understand and post actual evidence?
Please.

NO -- I can't -- because you choose to keep your brain padlocked.

Ya know -- there are actual transgender posters here on ATS.

And you tell them they are wrong. It's almost comical.

What are they saying Anne?
How does a man know how a woman thinks?
It is proven.
We are different.
If you have any information to the quandary, please provide it.
Otherwise, just stop spreading misinformation.
I know it doesn't hurt you so you don't care, but it is hurting those you trying to represent.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: AdifferentOpinion
There are no individual brain scans that people can look at and say that's a female brain or that's a male brain but there are certain trends that can be observed.

I personally understand that it's not black and white -- that it's far more complicated. Just tryin' to keep a simple concept.

Making a human is a mix of a lot of "stuff" -- that no science/scientist -- to date -- has all the answers to -- if any.

As I say: "You throw all the ingredients in a big pot and stir" -- you're gonna get every variation there is.

Thanks for your informed post.

You can fool some people sometimes but you can't fool all the people, all the time.
You "personally understand" what? All the "brain scans" you have been chirping about?
You have stated numerous times false information as fact.
Now you charged your outlook due to Adifferntopinions post.
Why?
Because you are a activist.

originally posted by: AdifferentOpinion
There are no individual brain scans that people can look at and say that's a female brain or that's a male brain but there are certain trends that can be observed.

For those interested in doing some reading:

Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain?

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity

A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism

A Study Finds Sex Differences in the Brain. Does It Matter?

UntreatedMtFs and FtMswho have an early onset oftheir gender dysphoria and are sexually oriented to persons of their natal sex show a distinctive brain morphology, reflecting a brain phenotype. These phenotypes are different from those of heterosexual males or females; the differences affect the right hemisphere and cortical structures underlying body perception. The genesis of these phenotypes might be caused by atypical effects of sex hormones ortheirmetabolitesin specific cortical regions ofMtFs and FtMs. These effects of hormones on the cortex suggest the hypothesis that brain differences between homosexual MtFs and FtMs and male and female controls are due to differences in the development of the cortex; this hypothesis would imply that the thinning process undergone by some regions ofthe cortexistimed differently in each phenotype. The review ofthe available data seemsto supporttwo existing hypotheses: (1) a brain-restricted intersexuality in homosexual MtFs and FtMs and (2) Blanchard’s insight on the existence of two brain phenotypes that differentiate‘‘homosexual’’and‘‘nonhomosexual’’MtFs. The studies on the effects of cross-sex hormone treatment on the brain of MtFs and FtMs consisteny indicate dramatic effects onthe gray and white matter after shortto medium-term treatments butthelong-term effects onthe brain require evaluation. Finally, the postmortem studies should be
interpreted in light of these in vivo findings as well as of theirunderlying mechanism

The thing is, there are a lot issues with the science done in this area as few researchers have taken every factor into consideration. Science has shown differences in some areas the brain between homosexuals and heterosexuals and for the most part, the transgender brain falls somewhere in the middle but there are problems that cloud most research in this area such as failing to note sexual orientation among other things plus ideological biases.

Men can think they are women. Men can not think like a woman

How exactly does a woman think? Do all women think the same way? I find this notion rather curious!

Thank you for your post and I promise I will read through the links as time permits.
My son just arrived and I haven't seen him in a few months.

The state of Missoori is building a $300,000,000 psychiatric hospital to replace some that were closed in the 1960s.

a reply to: infolurker

They didn't save any money, they just divertet it to other "worthwhile" stashes.

a reply to: tamusan