Professor of Psychiatry: Transgender is a mental disorder that merits treatment

originally posted by: igloo

Not saying trans or gay is a mental illness ..

Mental just means brain (having anything to do with the mind).

ADHD/Autism are mental disorders.

There is a difference between Mental Disorder and Mental Illness.

originally posted by: igloo

Everyone argues over the word gender, which has been used interchangeably for both biological sex as well as social construct for so long but maybe there needs to be new terminology that acknowledges that normal is normal by representing the bulk of society and another non offensive term can be used for those who differ. Mental illness only factors into life when dysfunction cannot be worked with and becomes crippling, for all people, divergent or not.

There have always been trans and gay people and I'm glad to live in a world where they are accepted but acceptance also means coming to terms with the difference and living with it in peace, in your own head. Maybe the need to be seen or in your face different is the edge of mental illness for all, not the state of peacefully living with and accepting oneself which I think should be achieved before any life altering decisions are made. Something unlikely until adulthood.

I absolutely agree.

We, who understand, really don't need to explain the difference.

a reply to: igloo
I came to my above reasoning not due to my gender being a bit skewed but because I lived with undiagnosed ADHD until the age of 50. I fought hard to be normal, I failed. My mental health took a toll due to the endless failure.

It was only when I came to find out I wasnt playing the same game as everyone else that I realized why I wasnt winning... stupid analogy but it popped into my head.

I had a massive turnaround when I found out. All the way through grief to acceptance til I let go of my dearly held concept of normal. This could happen because there was already a community of the neurodivergent who embrace who they are. They have a word to encompass this alternative and acceptable way of being. It would be nice to see the same with other variations of the human being rather than lashing out as a force against normal people who really have nothing to do with it and are busy in their lives.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: igloo

Not saying trans or gay is a mental illness ..

Mental just means brain (having anything to do with the mind).

ADHD/Autism are mental disorders.

There is a difference between Mental Disorder and Mental Illness.

I agree fully but Im trying to be careful with my words.

Gayness and transness may very well be a disorder but I wanted to clarify its not illness as that carries negative connotations.

This is why I feel that the young people in various videos having breakdowns over being misgendered are showing mental illness in the breakdown while the state of being trans is not as many live in peace with it. To my mind anyhow.

originally posted by: igloo
a reply to: igloo
I came to my above reasoning not due to my gender being a bit skewed but because I lived with undiagnosed ADHD until the age of 50. I fought hard to be normal, I failed. My mental health took a toll due to the endless failure.

It was only when I came to find out I wasnt playing the same game as everyone else that I realized why I wasnt winning... stupid analogy but it popped into my head.

I had a massive turnaround when I found out. All the way through grief to acceptance til I let go of my dearly held concept of normal. This could happen because there was already a community of the neurodivergent who embrace who they are. They have a word to encompass this alternative and acceptable way of being. It would be nice to see the same with other variations of the human being rather than lashing out as a force against normal people who really have nothing to do with it and are busy in their lives.

I raised an ADHD kid.

2nd kid was undiagnosed High Functioning Autistic (wasn't recognized in early 70s).

Now raising her son, grandson, who is High Functioning Autistic -- who is now 15 -- and yes -- non-binary.

I get ya

a reply to: scrounger

I really hate beating dead horse here but since you mentioned Websters.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Sex vs. Gender: How They’re Different

Sex is often the preferred term when referring to biology (for instance, “in many species, members of the male sex are larger than those of the female sex”), while gender is the preferred word when referring to behavioral, cultural, and psychological traits typically associated with sex

Oxford English Dictionary – definition; Gender
"The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones"

World Health Organization– definition; Gender
"Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. "

Scholarly Community Encyclopedia– definition; Gender
“It was in the 1970s that feminist scholars adopted the term gender as way of distinguishing "socially constructed" aspects of male–female differences (gender) from "biologically determined" aspects (sex).”

Sex-gender distinction

although the terms sex and gender have been used interchangeably since at least the fourteenth century, in contemporary academic literature they usually have distinct meanings. Sex generally refers to an organism's biological sex, while gender usually refers to either social roles based on the sex of a person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity). While in ordinary speech, the terms sex and gender are often used interchangeably, most contemporary social scientists, behavioral scientists and biologists, many legal systems and government bodies, and intergovernmental agencies such as the WHO make a distinction between gender and sex.

National Institutes of Health

Understanding sex and gender is critical to understanding human health and disease. Although “sex” is often incorrectly thought to have the same meaning as “gender,” the terms describe different but connected constructs. Sex and gender shape health independently as distinct factors, as well as interactively through the many ways in which they intersect and influence each other. It is important to understand the differences and interactions between sex and gender to better understand how they affect health and why they are important in medical practice and health research.

Sex
Sex is a multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. (These components are sometimes referred to together as “sex traits.”) All animals (including humans) have a sex. As is common across health research communities, NIH usually categorizes sex as male or female, although variations do occur. These variations are called differences in sex development (DSD) or intersex conditions.

Gender
Gender is relevant only for research with humans (not other animals). Gender can be broadly defined as a multidimensional construct that encompasses gender identity and expression, as well as social and cultural expectations about status, characteristics, and behavior as they are associated with certain sex traits. Understandings of gender vary throughout historical and cultural contexts.

I hope this helps with understanding?

a reply to: Annee

Reeks of fake 'fact' checkerism and activism, not clinical science.
Why are you so desperate to support mental illness instead of curing it ?

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: Annee

Reeks of fake 'fact' checkerism and activism, not clinical science.
Why are you so desperate to support mental illness instead of curing it ?

Please provide counter facts.

Thank you.

a reply to: AdifferentOpinion

funny thing about definitions you listed

you cherry picked one of SEVERAL that are listed under the word

yes it does say what your claiming

IT ALSO SAYS IN ANOTHER LINE THEY ARE THE SAME

typical trying to make something fit by removing "inconvenient" information.

also notice in your definitions it states things like TRAITS and SOCIAL VIEWS but key note

IT DOES NOT CHANGE BASIC BIOLOGY that A HUMAN CANNOT CHANGE THEIR GENDER/SEX THEY ARE BORN WITH from XX female to XY male (or vice versa)

they STILL ARE THE GENDER/SEX they born with and NO WORD GAMES can change that.

so "transgender female/male" CANNOT EXIST AND IS A BIOLOGIAL LIE.

calling a turd a rose, having "experts" do studies and agree on it along with a "society of any size agreeing to it" doesnt make it a rose

scrounger

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: Annee

Reeks of fake 'fact' checkerism and activism, not clinical science.
Why are you so desperate to support mental illness instead of curing it ?

Please provide counter facts.

Thank you.

seriously how dense and asking the same FOOLISH THING can you be

if your XX chromosome your a BIOLOGICAL SEX/GENDER FEMALE
If your XY chromosome your a BIOLOGICAL SEX/GENDER MALE

both from birth and CANNOT BE CHANGED no matter what hormones you take, what body altering surgery you have, how you "identify", what your "brain chemistry" is, or what/how many "experts" say/published studies.

im sorry but its that simple, its that factually/scientifically SET IN STONE.

PERIOD

your continued denial is just sad.

or more simply put from freud

"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

scrounger

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: igloo
a reply to: igloo
I came to my above reasoning not due to my gender being a bit skewed but because I lived with undiagnosed ADHD until the age of 50. I fought hard to be normal, I failed. My mental health took a toll due to the endless failure.

It was only when I came to find out I wasnt playing the same game as everyone else that I realized why I wasnt winning... stupid analogy but it popped into my head.

I had a massive turnaround when I found out. All the way through grief to acceptance til I let go of my dearly held concept of normal. This could happen because there was already a community of the neurodivergent who embrace who they are. They have a word to encompass this alternative and acceptable way of being. It would be nice to see the same with other variations of the human being rather than lashing out as a force against normal people who really have nothing to do with it and are busy in their lives.

I raised an ADHD kid.

2nd kid was undiagnosed High Functioning Autistic (wasn't recognized in early 70s).

Now raising her son, grandson, who is High Functioning Autistic -- who is now 15 -- and yes -- non-binary.

I get ya

sigh

its just damn pathetic you try to use an AUTISTIC CHILD to prove what has been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN about ones gender/sex.

AUTISM IS NOT SAME OR EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO SOMEONE DENYING SCIENCE OF THEIR GENDER/SEX.

you CANNOT BE NON BIANARY

you are male or female... XX or XY chromosomes
END OF STORY

at this point UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW ANYONE going from XX to XY or vice versa (like some reptiles and clownfish can do) then your just "throwing mud against the wall" and hope it sticks

scrounger

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: igloo
a reply to: igloo
I came to my above reasoning not due to my gender being a bit skewed but because I lived with undiagnosed ADHD until the age of 50. I fought hard to be normal, I failed. My mental health took a toll due to the endless failure.

It was only when I came to find out I wasnt playing the same game as everyone else that I realized why I wasnt winning... stupid analogy but it popped into my head.

I had a massive turnaround when I found out. All the way through grief to acceptance til I let go of my dearly held concept of normal. This could happen because there was already a community of the neurodivergent who embrace who they are. They have a word to encompass this alternative and acceptable way of being. It would be nice to see the same with other variations of the human being rather than lashing out as a force against normal people who really have nothing to do with it and are busy in their lives.

I raised an ADHD kid.

2nd kid was undiagnosed High Functioning Autistic (wasn't recognized in early 70s).

Now raising her son, grandson, who is High Functioning Autistic -- who is now 15 -- and yes -- non-binary.

I get ya

sigh

its just damn pathetic you try to use an AUTISTIC CHILD to prove what has been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN about ones gender/sex.

AUTISM IS NOT SAME OR EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO SOMEONE DENYING SCIENCE OF THEIR GENDER/SEX.

you CANNOT BE NON BIANARY

you are male or female... XX or XY chromosomes
END OF STORY

at this point UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW ANYONE going from XX to XY or vice versa (like some reptiles and clownfish can do) then your just "throwing mud against the wall" and hope it sticks

scrounger

You really have no clue what you're talking about.

And you intentionally dismiss (if you even read it) -- provided knowledgeable information.

Gender is not XX or XY. Because Gender is not physical.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: scrounger

i hate to break it to you but homosexuality is not the same as transsexuality

Facts on the cause of each.

Please.

homosexuality definition is your attracted to and/or want to have sexual contact with someone of YOUR SAME GENDER/SEX
it is a CHOICE or pre disposition (this is a separate debate) with no identifiable biological hard wired reason/fact

transsexuality definition is one CLAIMS they can (for whatever reason) change their BIOLOGICAL SEX/GENDER from XX female to XY male or vice versa.
since we are NOT REPTILES OR CLOWNFISH (two examples) but HOMO SAPIENS you ONLY HAVE TWO GENDERS/SEX THAT IS SET BY TIME OF BIRTH.

I know you are not that ignorant of FACTS, you just dont like them

I cant dumb it down/make it any more simple an answer and sadly you even asking the question shows a willful ignorance to FACTS

scrounger

Who you are attracted to is a choice? Really?

Um most times (as i stated before) YES. are you saying that we are "hardwired" to only like/love a particular set of criteria? wow your desperation is palitable

Please provide scientific fact to back that up.

first its YOUR CLAIM that it isnt.. still waiting for PROVEN FACTS. But to answer your question i DID.. i said most (key word most) are a choice and its possible with SAME SEX attraction it COULD BE hardwired. but to date NO ONE HAS FOUND THE "GAY GENE".

Please provide scientific fact for yourself. Why are you you?

Im sorry but i have answered this many time already.. repeating the same question is like a CHILD saying "but why" over and over.. annoying and shows they understand but dont want to accept it.. like you

Do you honestly make a conscientious choice in who you are attracted to?

So when you have lust/sexual attraction to someone who's really bad for you -- that's a choice?

um YEA..unless your implying people cant have control or even addictive tendencies.. are you now implying same sex and transexual is an addiction.. wow.

but your whole questions IGNORES BASIC SCIENTIFIC FACT

homosexuality... A CHOICE OR EVEN BIOLOGY of who one wants to love, likes, lusts hell even have sexual contact with.

transexual.. claims you can change from XX to XY (or vice versa) your BIOLOGICAL gender/sex your BORN WITH.

AGAIN seseme street covered this and a FOUR YEAR OLD BUT NOT YOU either understands or doesnt want to (because it doesnt prove your view)

"one of these things is NOT LIKE THE OTHER"... again repeat "one of these things is NOT LIKE THE OTHER"

Im sorry SCIENCE doesnt bend to your WANT/OPINION.

again show me ONE PERSON THAT CHANGED FROM XX TO XY/ XY TO XX

because (again showing you now your a RANTING FOOL) if i take a blood sample from jenner and tula and one from chaz bono... only put (respectively) on the sample A (jenner), B (tula) and C (chaz).
send it to a lab and ask them to test for what their BIOLOGICAL GENDER/SEX IS.

it will come back
a. male
b. male
c. female

no matter what they did to their bodies.

end of science lesson
be rational and accept (but dont have to like) it
or be ignorant and keep denying it

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

You know what's in your head -- and what you BELIEVE (see I can do caps too).

Other than that -- you're intentionally clueless when it comes to gender.

I’ve always wanted to be a golf club.

Now I can.

My pronouns are Calaway and Taylor Made.

I identify as a 5 wood.

Tomorrow I am going to use my non-wood/iron decision to be a 5 iron.

I think club selection should be fluid.

I aspire to be a sand wedge.

I feel like putters don’t get enough equity.

When someone says something worth responding to -- I will.

Until then -- I have nothing more to contribute.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: scrounger

You know what's in your head -- and what you BELIEVE (see I can do caps too).

Other than that -- you're intentionally clueless when it comes to gender.

Annee,

I'm schizophrenic and have experienced gender dysphoria twice in my life.

It IS possible to come to terms with the condition without resorting to chemicals and genital modification.

The mind plays tricks on me all the time, I'm happy I've learned not to listen to it.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

This dude is OLDER THAN BIDEN!

For real you're gonna take a dude that has been kicking around the terrible healthcare system we have here, that his biggest claim to fame is basically telling people, "No", at his word 100%.

You ever spoken to a trans person about their thoughts about how a doctor could know what they're experience is like?

Also can you tell me where the trans people are going to destroy society, where's the evidence, because if you don't have that evidence, you have zero argument against stopping people from doing what they want with their bodies. Doctors are not all smart, we had a Nobel peace prize receiver say some really racist stuff and they took it from him.

Some of you may think his racism is accurate, but either way, he's an idiot to say it out loud so either way "Dr." In front of your name don't mean a damn thing.

a reply to: Quadrivium

It is not indoctrination to teach acceptance of people "just doing them"

There is no ATTACK ON CHILDREN. If your child wants to DO THEM and whatever "Them" is upsets you what are you going to do? Will you blam an entire group of people for talking about the existence of a very tiny group of people that are just that, PEOPLE.

Its a fact nearly every child is born is born with SEX ORGANS. The very existence of these SEX ORGANS makes people uncomfortable immediately and that's from INDOCTRINATION.

Perhaps for some of us refusing all indoctrination allows us to make our own choices, and while I support Trans people and their exploration of theirselves I am a firmly cis gendered male.

If you are worried about children just hearing the idea about changing their winky to a wonky and forever being messed up by it, perhaps you are not equipping your children with the critical thinking skills required to be a truly productive member of a capitalist Republic.

If you believe that you could have been convinced than perhaps you weren't given the skills to think critically and with that perhaps you should look to your elders as the problem.

Non trans people can have an understanding if they listen and build it over time with an open mind not filled with FEAR of one of the smallest minorites in the entire country.

The number of those identitying as trans has gone up yes, but that's because of the acceptance. Also for all your vitriol against these type of people, the fact they are still revealing themselves is braver than most, there are people in this country that think they should all be dead, and they still come out and say who they are.

The world is weirder than you will ever know and telling someone they don't know anything in the middle of a discussion without providing what they are missing is not a discussion. It's a road to fascism plain and simple, they exist and more of them will exist and some of them may be you and your's children, accept it and move on bigots.