ATS Decorum for members and moderators : May 2023

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Moon68

Here's the rub, there's a certain side that will report ad nauseum when the other side hurts their feelings. Then there's a side that holds firm to "free speech" ideals and would rather take the personal body blows than stifle the offenders "free speech".

What you end up with is lopsided reporting system with one side being stifled because of whiny b1tches on the other.

There's another side.

The side that hates all the ego-boosting tirades and screeds and personal attacks that derail and clutter up the threads, but we don't report -- even when those attacks are targeting us -- because we don't give a rat's patootie what the anonymous keyboard warriors think of us. They're more like pesky flies -- mostly harmless, but such a pain in the arse.

All the while keeping in mind that freedom of anything includes the choice to say "no." And knowing that each and every person who signed up for ATS agreed not to engage in that kind of hateful and hurtful dialogue by choice. But for some reason, those of us who want to exercise that right to say "no" to divisive and disruptive dialogue -- AS AGREED TO IN THE T&Cs -- are being bullied and brow-beaten by those who refuse to live up to the terms they agreed to.

I was okay with having the Mud Pit viewable to only signed-in members, and not to the public at large.

I'm not okay with those who continue to bully and browbeat anyone for standing up for the rules we all agreed to abide by. I am intensely reminded that the same people trying to fundamentally transform ATS are playing by the same tactics as those who want to fundamentally transform our Republic.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Boadicea
So uh, shenanigans?
5 points were emphasized, it will be interesting to see follow through, or perhaps not.

This is exactly what I'm waiting to see... and judge. And not just in terms of the quality of discussion (the five points), but in terms of the topics of discussion.

We've been provided basic standards of discourse, but we don't really know how that will look in practice. We've also been promised that no subjects will be prohibited, and we know exactly how that will look in practice.

I'm hoping -- even optimistic -- that the walk matches the talk. We'll see.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Im not sure what you mean?

In regards to my initial statement or the one you quoted?

The one I quoted .

a reply to: Boadicea

The side that hates all the ego-boosting tirades and screeds and personal attacks that derail and clutter up the threads, but we don't report -- even when those attacks are targeting us -- because we don't give a rat's patootie what the anonymous keyboard warriors think of us. They're more like pesky flies -- mostly harmless, but such a pain in the arse.

This this why the report button is available. It's not playground tattle-taling or snitching about noisy animals if you are reporting toxic behavior that degrades the quality of ATS. I'm sure the Mods feel like they're doing good work if they see legitimate reportings.

I've reported a number of members who were explicit about expressing sexism or racism, and they got banned, and I was so freaking relieved and am very appreciative for the moderators that they care about keeping it real.

Sexism and racism does not keep it real, guys. It keeps it unreal, in fact.

a reply to: DirtWasher

Fair enough. And I don't fault anyone for doing so, even if it's not my way.

At the same time, every sexist or racist comment by one member is representative of many, and there is also value in responding to the comment with a different (dare I say better?) perspective in a calm, reasonable and thoughtful manner. If the comment is simply removed, then there is no opportunity for anyone to provide a different or better perspective or approach to the matter.

Perhaps part of the challenge for us ATSers is to challenge ourselves and hone our own skills to better respond to such comments, to create and encourage a more reasonable and rational discussion. To show the world how it's done.

originally posted by: JinMI
Hmm

Ummm...Hmmm...



YouSir

a reply to: JaqitchHgar

In the past ATS previously banned Holocaust denial and Sandy Hook is a hoax threads are things like that and other taboo topics now open again?

If there are, there shouldn't be, imo. IDGAF if it's "uncomfortable", questioning the narrative isn't = to "hate speech", and I think it's corrupt and absurd to do what the est. did to Jones over the Sandy Hook thing - it was supposed to make me feel scared and disallow open communication between ppl on forums like this, but actually, it did the opposite and I really do not care what the RESTRICT act says ; Common sense says that's BS.

a reply to: Boadicea

I get your idea to confront toxic members with rationale, and I agree there is value to that. I think it's much better to maintain as bannable offense since it's right there in the TOS and it's just common sense, and it clogs up the discussions and drives away us normies. The only reason it happens so much is because of the anonymity of the internet. Can people behave this way in public without worry of public consequences? Threat of face-to-face consequences ordinarily prevent folks from voicing such opinions.

I don't think it does anyone any favors by granting sexists and racists a platform for their warped ideologies. I believe it is far more effective to have a place to discuss such things coherently rather than having to confront the actual trolls. It's feeding the trolls is what it is.

Free speech should mean for ATS the freedom to discuss any topic rationally and intelligently. It does not mean free to post toxic nothings.

a reply to: DirtWasher

I don't think it does anyone any favors by granting sexists and racists a platform for their warped ideologies.

I disagree. Better to know than to be blindsided at the worst time and place.

Along the lines of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer.

And forewarned is forearmed.

Back in the day, ATS tried in the flesh face to face meetups for local members. It was tried throughout the states. I even went to one of them, it was held in a Aircraft hanger, nice touch. But in no time our local brother grabbed the lime light and stole the show, looking to enlist initiates. What a bummer. Well anyways that idea went the way of the tyrannosaurus rex.
Good really, because now some members would,umm, you know, on site.

There also used to be a live chat room, rooms. But again that too got off the hook. It was like a bar when the routies would come in. I wouldn't doubt the chat is still with us, but only for admins now.

After 20 some years ATS is the King of Free Speech, period! Yea I had a few things deleted, but for the most part I have been free to share just about anything I wanted, needed to. We sure have come a long way since the times the word "Satan" would get your post scrubbed lol lol.

ATS, is my tribe, and I love ya all!!! Thanks for being there!

a reply to: ats admin

There isn't a single topic that is "off limits" , it is all in the way it is presented

Hello and ty for your post.. Not trying to rock the boat and would understand something here. In the past there has been heavy censorship of ATS - examples

Wilkeaks became censored in the past to the point you could not link to the website... Only msm. I was told rightly or wrongly this was caused by google interfering and in essence dictating how much revenue was gained from advertising.. In a nutshell corporate deepstate censorship. Under new ownership is this still the case.

Another heavy censored topic was P/gate - it was in some form allowed in RATS - would this still be the case

Naming powerful individuals the past particularly from the USA in relationship to the above was a no no.. would this still be the case.

Linking information from hacked sources thats readily available on the internet and often covered by msm .. is this now allowed

Linking information from paste bin is this allowed.. In some respects these kinda of issues cause censorship

It looks like a kinda fresh start event for ATS or at the least a phoenix kind of thing. Many of us I guess have marks against them for past behavior. Would a rest start kinda of amnesty thing be a good idea..

We are entering a very strange point in history.
EVERYTHING is becoming offensive.
Everything is becoming bigoted, Racist or some type of Phobia, to certain groups.
How do the Owners and Staffs see this playing out on ATS?

originally posted by: ats admin
3. Don't hateful or bigoted

You're gonna need more mods.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
ATS is great, but you can never have 100% free speech for example you can't yell "I have a bomb" as just joke on a plane.
But ATS is the best forum on the internet that is organized and modern allowing the most free speech allowed, and for that I am grateful. There are other places but they either censor and ban too much(Reddit) or they allow too much garbage and hate(GLP)
I find that ATS is just right, the sweat spot for threads and posting online for just about anything really.

I agree. I've never found another website as good. There are sites that allow anything but those are vile, childish and out of control. There are those with decorum but they either do not allow Free Speech or there is a snooty 'in crowd' vibe to the community. You either 'fit in' or you don't. I only wish for ATS is that it could grow to greater popularity than it's been at. Forums may be 'old school' now but there is such value to much of the content here. Some of the best-written articles I ever read were on ATS.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
We are entering a very strange point in history.
EVERYTHING is becoming offensive.
Everything is becoming bigoted, Racist or some type of Phobia, to certain groups.
How do the Owners and Staffs see this playing out on ATS?

That's what happens when our frequency is messed with en-masse on a global level since it was possible ages ago.

People get sensitive because of insecurities and the normal behaviour gets skewed into a higher frequency which is hard for most people to adjust to without complications.

Overcompensation has created the things you list maybe but the push seems to continue because it is natural.

How do we get people to leave their negative energy at the door when sometimes it brings them here in the first place?

I should also note that the previous regime were and still are on the whole, very intelligent and well meaning folks. They like many old time members tried to navigate a highly transitional time in both the real and internet world, what in retrospect was practically an impossible task. They created a site where independent thinking people landed to deconstruct the world and universe around them to varying degrees, where the original ethos permeating was always the search for truth, sometimes in debate and sometimes in collaboration. We now live in a world where truth is elastic to one's bias and their definition of conspiracy is whatever rationalization needs to be created to justify their beliefs. It's a complete inversion of truth seeking, and it is happening at a cataclysmic pace all around us. So much so that the mainstream thinkers are now as scarce and demonized as the conspiracy thinkers were back then.

Yes mistakes were made, but I believe less experienced stewards of ATS would have made many more. They really tried everything, including some great ideas like the ATS Press Corps and many many more. For me the moment I knew it would never be the same again was when the debate forum was abandoned ... it marked a shift in priorities. But with all that said and despite what used to be my own complicated relationship with this site, I always held admiration for SO, Crakeur, and the rest of the folks for trying to do everything in their power to uphold civility in a world where it was collapsing everywhere around them. To this day I use the (paraphrased) mantra 'discuss the subject matter not the person' in all parts of my life.

I wish the new owners and staff the best of luck in trying to manage and steer this community to being a place where critical thought has a place ... and if you manage to sort out the hate thing, please tell the rest of the internet.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
We are entering a very strange point in history.
EVERYTHING is becoming offensive.
Everything is becoming bigoted, Racist or some type of Phobia, to certain groups.
How do the Owners and Staffs see this playing out on ATS?

Stop watching the news. Problem solved.

Second..

a reply to: Mrs Darko

Of course, regarding the Holocaust (or rather denial of), there is no "both sides" to it.

It happened, period, the end.

The denial, and typically those arguing it didn't happen, are anti-semites/white supremacists/neoNazis with a BS and nefarious agenda.

And *that* should continue to be shut down.

originally posted by: schrodingers dog
I always held admiration for SO,

Thank you.

And "truth" is only elastic unless you let it be so.

a reply to: SirHardHarry

Well that's an open discussion right there. Are you talking about the Jewish Shoah, or are you talking about the Armenian holocaust?

Then you have the issues of what was really going on with either of them. No matter what you're talking about it has become the norm to call anyone questioning the official narrative a "Holocaust Denier". In either case there is a lot that needs to be discussed as to what really happened. I can say with a certainty that the Jewish Shoah did take place. My Grandfather had liberated two camps, and one of the survivors (who was also involved in the Six Day War) was a good friend of my Grandfather ever since. Sadly, both have now passed on, but the memories that they both told me really forced me into rethinking history as it was told.

What was told to me by them verses what the official narrative says needs discussion, but as I said above, doing so somehow makes one a "Holocaust Denier". Even if you can openly state that the deaths really did take place.

The Armenian holocaust is a whole other thing entirely. Lets not forget about the other genocides taking place around the world as well that often get mislabeled "Holocausts".

Just for fun go to google translate and type in holocaust in the Hebrew-English language selection. Does that seem right?